Off Topic Armor Trivia Discussions

[Star Wars Helmets]

Actually, with respect, I don't agree with all of Jez's assessments. Most of what he said is on the money, however....

The degree of texture and height of bumps vary as well as vary due ONLY to the sharpness of the pull.

But it is there on every helmet. It might not appear so because of a softer pull but it definitely is because of the mold. In fact, they have to be.

The question has still not been answered correctly. Those were nicely thought out logical theorys, but not the reason why.

 

I still don't believe that anyone will answer correctly as it is a very difficult and technical question. If people are bored with it, feel free to skip it and have someone ask another question. For the meantime, let it serve as the "sword in the stone" to see who can come up with the right answer.

 

Gino, I've detailed precisely why there will be uncommon bumps, and regular repeated bumps. The former's due to the nuances of the material used and the affect when heated/cooled, and the latter due to imperfections, contaminationa and mould breakdown.

 

If you are saying there's an additional reason then you really need to define your theory. I've provided evidence thats back mine up, so with respect youre not in a position to expect others to trust your own hypothesis.

 

Not wishing to be difficult

 

Cheers

 

Jez

[Guest T*E]

Okay then, moving on. Next question, please.

 

One last thing to add: these images of the Felth helmet are NOT to be used on any website at all. If I find them somewhere I will make sure bad things happen. They are not to be used for any comparison of how your replica looks, nor are they to be listed on any websites as helmet found or the like. They cannot be used on any reference CD's at all either. I did this so people can see it was found and share with you all. Do not ruin this by violating these rules.

 

Thanks! The pics are here and can be saved for your own use and saving to disc, thats cool. But please respect these rules above. We cool. Thanks!

 

T*E

[clutch]

Don't look on the RPF then.

[Guest T*E]

Don't look on the RPF then.

 

I already said that was ok, as Jax is a buddy and since i cannot post there and wanted to share with more people that dont come this this place. So that was cool. Anywhere else and the hammer falls.. HARD

 

WHAMMO! LOL!

 

T*E

[TK-4224[501st]]

just one short question

are there size differences between the bumpy and the no bumpy version?

[Star Wars Helmets]

Can I also say that ANY pictures I post here, or are looked at on www.StarWarsHelmets.com can ONLY be looked at for 5 seconds, after which I'd appreciate it if you would put your hands in front of your eyes and scroll down the page.

 

Please respect my wishes - 5 SECONDS ONLY PLEASE

 

 

1......

 

 

2......

 

 

3......

 

 

4......

 

 

5......

 

OKAY - I WANRED YOU - I'M CALLING THE AUTHORITIES!!!!!

 

p.s. this 2nd one is the bumpy version

 

Cheers

 

Jez

Edited June 1, 2021 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021

[TK8280]

you got me stumped on this one...they are too close to call, do you think that they may be a recast?

[GINO]

Gino, I've detailed precisely why there will be uncommon bumps, and regular repeated bumps. The former's due to the nuances of the material used and the affect when heated/cooled, and the latter due to imperfections, contaminationa and mould breakdown.

 

If you are saying there's an additional reason then you really need to define your theory. I've provided evidence thats back mine up, so with respect youre not in a position to expect others to trust your own hypothesis.

 

Not wishing to be difficult

 

Cheers

 

Jez

 

 

No prob Jez. I didn't it see your post that way.

I can tell you definitively that the reason that there is texture/bumps on the cap/back has nothing to do with either the heating/cooling of the plastic, or with imperfecions, contaminants, or mold breakdown.

[Star Wars Helmets]

No prob Jez. I didn't it see your post that way.

I can tell you definitively that the reason that there is texture/bumps on the cap/back has nothing to do with either the heating/cooling of the plastic, or with imperfecions, contaminants, or mold breakdown.

 

Then I too can tell you definitively that it IS why. We know for a fact that these things have caused bumps on helmets both regular and irregular.

 

I'm not saying that there are not other reasons, and maybe your theory has merits. However without saying what it is, you cant expect others to just take your word for it so it merely remains "Gino unproven theory # 365".

 

Just cos you think its true dont make it so!

 

Cheers

 

Jez

[GINO]

Jez,

I honestly wasn't trying to create more conflict with you. If my posts came out that way, I apologize.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I am sincere in what I am saying. We've been at opposite end of debates before and it sucks.

I would hope that by now that I would have earned some credibility in your eyes.

I promise you, I know what I'm talking about here.

[john danter]

Of course it's because the mould has imperfecions in it. You try pulling around 50 suits in one night after a fire has wrecked your business and see how clean your flipping pulls come out!!!

 

I'm currently doing a tutorial for Andrew's website as we speak (how to make his lids more troopable) so I'll ask him this very question tomorrow. He's the chap who made them, I'm sure he'll know

 

This is how you post and answer a trivia questiojn.........

Does anyone know what T.I.E fighter stands for?

 

Twin Ion Engine.

 

Next!

[Butah Fett]

John,

Please take any further off topic discussion to PMs or emails. Gino, if you'd like to respond to his post, make it via PM. This thread is way off topic. This is why it was locked to begin with.

[clutch]

sometimes priceless nuggets of information are gleaned from the off-topic spiral

[GINO]

sometimes priceless nuggets of information are gleaned from the off-topic spiral

 

Exactly.

So to anyone, why don't you try not to get so nervous over some discussion that most people want to hear about just because you don't want to. Simply quit tuning in.

 

As for what was posted, I think it's important that people see my response to it as it is not a "private" discussion. It's for all to see and benefits everyone.

 

John,

I've spoken with Andrew on many occasions at length in the past. He does not remember for whatever reason. The reason he gave about it being the hdpe crinkling, expanding, contracting, when heated/cooled is not the true reason why there is a repeated bumps/texture pattern on the original helmets. It most certainly is not because of damage either.

I was VERY disappointed to find out how little he remembered about the details of the production.

In the past years, he has been "reminded" by those close to him but even still there are many things that are not accurate by his recollection. I'm sure he probably means well, but he simply just does not accurately remember. You almost can't blame him as we're talking 30 years ago.

Unfortunately, you are digging in the wrong place if you hope to get definitive answers from him. You'll get answers. Some will be on the money, and others will be utterly wrong. At one time he and I disputed over his claim that there were only 6 hdpe helmets ever made and that they weren't even used on screen. It's very disappointing.

Anyways, I wish you best of luck, but don't take his word as gold as he his claims have been proven wrong many many times in the past. He has useful info mixed in with inaccurate info. Like I said, I'm sure he means well, but it appears he does his best to fill in the blanks about things when he can't definitely remember.

[Butah Fett]

So to anyone, why don't you try not to get so nervous over some discussion that most people want to hear about just because you don't want to. Simply quit tuning in.

Or you could respect the wishes of the command staff. Regardless, continue your rant in this section if you like. Any further in the Armor Trivia section will be deleted.

 

Thank you.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Basically a discussion is OK. Picking fights is not. Baiting is not. Ideally this discussion can continue.

[Midnight Trooper]

I don't see any fights being picked. There may be some tension, but I think both Jez, Gino and Matt have all been very polite to each other so far considering their past disagreements.

 

That said...

Gino if you are the only one who knows, well bully for you. The rest of us can't have a discussion regarding this because while I know what Jez' "opinion" is, like he said, you have not offered any indication of what yours is.

 

You said, "I can tell you definitively that the reason that there is texture/bumps on the cap/back has nothing to do with either the heating/cooling of the plastic, or with imperfecions, contaminants, or mold breakdown."

 

The only possiblity left after this is that the bumps were put there intentionallly, sculpted into the mould by someone...

 

So thats about it. I'm not picking a fight, just illustrating that this topic will go nowhere unless you give something to work with.

[troopermaster]

So AA can't remember or doesn't know but Gino who had absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the manufacturing of the original helmets knows because.......

 

Whatever you think it is Gino, it has to be a theory or do have some kind of solid proof?

 

I'll give it one last shot.....the bumps are for keying the silicone skins to the mother moulds?

[GINO]

So AA can't remember or doesn't know but Gino who had absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the manufacturing of the original helmets knows because.......

 

Whatever you think it is Gino, it has to be a theory or do have some kind of solid proof?

 

I'll give it one last shot.....the bumps are for keying the silicone skins to the mother moulds?

 

 

...because I have some insight into the manufacturing process that no one else has stumbled upon...yet.

 

Has nothing to do with keying whatsoever.

I'll tell you this, the bumps/texture was not an intentional thing.

[TK-4224[501st]]

my first thinking some time ago

in fact of time and some problems while production the moulds had been reworked very fast and very cheap

the bumps and textures looked like a badly worked material

cause the bumps and textures look like some other things i?m worked years ago

 

ok

this was some time ago

no i?m looking forward to hear the real story or see the proof

this will take some years

[john danter]

I used to work 5 minutes from Andrew's workshop in Twickenham and have popped in to buy stuff, either I or my friend, many, many times. Another friend has even been in touch with him regarding automated CNC production and 3D laser scanning of his stuff to allow him to make different sized moulds. Plus he's even tipped a pint of beer over my girlfriend in the past (accidental) as he's been to some our charity balls and gives UKG members a discount.

 

What I'm trying to get across here without sounding pompous, is I'm not phased by him at all. So talk to him like I'd talk to anyone. I'm very open with the chap and let him chat away. Anyone who has spoken to him knows he does this with ease. LOL

 

Just 2 minutes ago I came off the phone from Andrew and wrote this down as I was speaking to him.

 

Here goes................

 

At the time of production, Feb/March he was also making fishponds from HDPE! (A boom industry at the time)

He made a few SAMPLE I repeat SAMPLE lids/suits to send off to Lucasfilm to look at. Lucasfilm were so tight they actually used these SAMPLES later in the film! They were meant to be thrown away.

He knows that at the time there would have been contamination from the fishpond stones.

The stones were used to help KEY the material to the stones. Otherwise it crimps as it cools. So perfect for buzzing fishponds, not so ideal for smooth high gloss stormtroopers. Hence the introducion of ABS later for the close ups. Find a bump on a ABS hero and I'll give you my house! (my words not his )

 

ALSO!

 

HDPE forms at a very narrow temperature window and can web terribly when not done correctly. Plus it would not stick very well to the SMOOTH mould of the stormtrooper lid. So it shrinks as it comes off the mould and cools. Natural physical charaterisctics of this cheap and very buzzing material. Hence the bumps.

 

He says EVERY single one of the those early stormtrooper lids were different. No bumps were intentional and no lid was the same. Different curves.

 

He also adds, after he stopped laughing at how idiotic and anal we all are, that he cannot believe natural bumps in the forming process and nature of the HDPE are being discussed at such length 30 years on.

 

He also added he'd love to meet someone who knows something he doesn't when he was the one who pulled them

 

Right then....nest dead horse please

[GINO]

He's right about one thing. We are kind of nuts to be discussing such minutae.

However, it's just like I told you. He doesn't remember.

The bumps/texture has nothing to do with contamination or keying the part so it stays registered on the mold.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Accurate or not, it's great to have some of the living memory jotted down for posterity. As mentioned memory fades - how much worse will it get in another 30 years?

 

I appreciate everyone chiming in with their knowledge

[troopermaster]

Well AA is right about the HDPE at least. I've used it, as well as LDPE and PP which are virtually the same stuff but none have left these bumps like on the helmets. Granted, they did leave bigger bumps which can be seen on some helmets but I would say that they were definately on the moulds....no doubt.

 

Now wether the sculpt was cast in plaster which had pitted causing the actual positive mould to have the bumps I don't know. Or maybe the bumps are there intentionally for airflow aiding the material to pull down enough is another guess but whatever you think it is Gino......I'm all ears

 

Here's a pic of the beige HDPE I can get. What do you guys think...is it close to the originals?

[TK-4224[501st]]

Here's a pic of the beige HDPE I can get. What do you guys think...is it close to the originals?

 

awesome paul

hope i could catch one at the end of the year

 

imo it?s a little bit to sharp with the lower teeth

but who cares

 

looking brutal deluxe