Lawful suits.

[Òrlendr]

surprise surprise its me posting on a thread like this.

Well written post, this forum needs an upvote function

[TK-1085[501st]]

dont known enough to have an opinion of SDS, RT-Mod or the new DL or KW armour (although the last 2 are fan sculpts?)

 

 

RT-Mod is a fan sculpt, not sure about what DL's suit will be when it comes out. KW I do not think has plans for TK armor but I could be wrong??

 

 

SDS is a bag of worms I don't want to touch, supposedly he recast certain parts he no longer had molds for but since he cast them in the first place its hard to call that wrong. What is wrong is he claiming to have sculpted it all himself.

[Rolf[501st]]

RT-Mod is a fan sculpt, not sure about what DL's suit will be when it comes out. KW I do not think has plans for TK armor but I could be wrong??

 

 

SDS is a bag of worms I don't want to touch, supposedly he recast certain parts he no longer had molds for but since he cast them in the first place its hard to call that wrong. What is wrong is he claiming to have sculpted it all himself.

 

DL is a 3D scan of the screen used ANH Dave M helmet.

Body armor molds scratch build...

[TK-1085[501st]]

Thanks Rolf,

 

I knew DL was working on TK armor but had no clue what it was based on or really any detail other than he was working on it.

[JoeR]

Thanks Rolf,

 

I knew DL was working on TK armor but had no clue what it was based on or really any detail other than he was working on it.

All this could be sorted by LFL casting an original ANH suit and helmet and forming copies. It is delicate work but not exactly hard with the millions Lucas has......

[Rolf[501st]]

Thanks Rolf,

 

I knew DL was working on TK armor but had no clue what it was based on or really any detail other than he was working on it.

 

Your welcome:

3D scan:

 

Scratch build:

 

New parts:

 

 

 

 

Peace out

[Sgt JB]

the edges on those shins looks like you could cut yourself on them!! Are those vacuum formed? What plastic are those made out of?

[Rolf[501st]]

the edges on those shins looks like you could cut yourself on them!! Are those vacuum formed? What plastic are those made out of?

 

They are ABS, i think they are 60 gauge/1,5mm or something (DL talk about different gauges, on the suit)

[TK-7980]

One talented guy, that DL.

[HPDblues[TK]]

One talented guy, that DL.

Now that is something I can agree with.

 

DL's fingerprints are all over the TE/TE2 molds.

 

It great to see his progress.

 

T

[Darth_Finger]

Where did you get those pics of DL working the trooper stuff? DL is cool guy. The hobby is lucky to have guys like him and TE2.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Now that is something I can agree with.

 

DL's fingerprints are all over the TE/TE2 molds.

 

It great to see his progress.

 

T

 

You know, I've heard nothing but good things about Dan - I hope to meet him in person some day.

[dougefresh]

That dude works MAGIC with a vac-former, for damn sure.

 

Personally, I think his helmets look a little funky, but the details are unbelievable. SUPER sharp.

Some of-- if not THE -- crispest pulls I've ever seen.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

In some ways I'm confused that people are confused. The policies are pretty clear and I believe we've applied the standards evenly.

 

GF, AP, TM, TE2

These are considered OK. GF actually no longer makes armor, so should be a moot point. AP long ago was cleared as having acquired the molds as part of a transaction from TE and is thus OK. And, he's been doing it so long w/o any objection from anyone I'm not sure why it would be an issue. TM is a fan sculpt and thus 100% OK. TE2 like AP got molds from TE in a very open transaction and is also OK.

 

CAP (Chris AKA weiBes)

Direct molds of CAP are considered OK as best we've been able to determine, while he did recast TE somehow they made a deal. I've only seen parts of emails, but this is what we have and the community seems to have agreed and thus CAP is fine. CAP2 has some parts from TM & crashman (?) that are considered bad form, and it would be great to hear people's thoughts on this. Lastly, not all CAP parts are recast - he made is belt (at the least, it's different from TE) it seems. CAP also said he doesn't care if people recast him.

 

ATA is direct recast of CAP and took the steps to replace parts that were not OK (TM knee, control panel). Since he's done that, there seems to be no objections.

 

Scootch (CAP WEST) - pretty much the same as ATA though these are Chris' molds and not a recast of them. We've applied the same standard to ATA - replace the TM/crashman parts and will then be fine to sell. Sandtrooper should be fine (as someone asked).

 

PT - 100% not OK. He lied about his intent and then made a direct recast of TE2. He's no longer a Legion member either.

 

VT - fate undetermined. No one will claim to be him and since he's not tried selling on these boards I've ignored it for now. Should the real VT stand up it can be discussed at that time.

 

Pretty much direct recasting anyone's molds without permission is just a bad thing to do, regardless of how many generations it's removed.

 

I think it's pretty clear in the community that recasting any fan sculpt is flat out dishonest.

 

Some exceptions seems to be allowed, e.g. C6 was fine to recast when he stopped selling helmets, but everyone stopped doing that once he started again. IOW, it seems if people stop making parts.

 

TE

While TE has been banned from these boards for bad business practices, you'll note we allow the selling of TE suits as being OK if done via an honest intermediary, e.g. someone who delivers on time & is transparent in their dealings.

 

FX

Like TE this is done via an intermediary. Ward (Deckard) has been openly selling on these boards for a looooong time because he is delivering quality, direct made kits at a good price and provides excellent customer service.

 

Recast FX

Nope, bad form just like selling recast TM.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I have to ask why the DIY crowd is so celebrated by some 501st members, especially when that forum makes heroes of people who celebrate stealing the hard work of people like TrooperMaster or those who spent money on molds like AP/TE2 did.

 

The fact that the DIY boards are so anti-501st makes me curious as to why there are 501st members there at all. I'm not saying this as a slam, but trying to understand the appeal.

[dougefresh]

Paul-- I totally hear where you're coming from... I think you're asking from a place of genuine philosophical and ethical curiosity...

 

In kind, please know that I'm coming from a totally honest, respectful place as well...

 

Full disclosure:

I'm a member at DIY.

I'm AGAINST recasting.

I'm ALL ABOUT the FISD and the 501st.

 

That said...

 

Please judge people by their BEHAVIOR, not their URL history.

 

Guilt by association isn't guilt. Period.

 

It's making a pretty bold assumption to assert that an ENTIRE web forum shares one single opinion.

 

Seriously-- do you want to be accountable for each and every comment that's made here on the FISD?

I certainly wouldn't expect you to.

 

Yes, there's some chuckle-head stuff that goes on at DIY. It gets wild and woolly. No question.

I find myself rolling my eyes at some of the crap that goes on there.

But you know what?

There's also some FANTASTIC people, and some SERIOUS love for and knowledge about stormtroopers.

 

Alongside the occasional dumba$$ remark-- which are RIDICULOUSLY easy to spot and ignore, BTW; the people who make those comments aren't known for their subtlety -- there's also some incredibly helpful tutorials,

great photos, interesting TK history, and amazing human beings. (And some not-so amazing people too; a category I'm sure I fall into in some folks' opinion)

Like every endeavor involving human beings, it's hopelessly flawed, and occasionally great.

You gotta take the good with the bad.

 

If you think my loyalties are split, or that I lack integrity because I have a different browser cache than you-- that's your prerogative -- but it's pretty irrational, if you ask me.

My attitude, my behavior, and my actions are IDENTICAL on both sites.

The goofy dork you guys see on whitearmor is the same goofy dork that visits doityourself.

 

I have NO problem with how I conduct myself on either forum, and frankly, neither should you.

Unless I'm breaking the rules here, or shilling recast armor-- which I'll repeat: I am AGAINST -- I don't think there should be a problem.

I have nothing but respect for everyone here, and I like to think I comport myself that way.

If I've ever acted disrespectfully or unfairly towards anyone here, I sincerely apologize.

 

But with that said-- frankly, it's none of anyone's business which other sites I frequent, so long as my actions are civil, ethical, and in keeping with this venue's terms of membership.

 

I absolutely love this hobby, and I absolutely love the FISD.

I've made great friends here, and I've seen a dream I had since I was a little kid come true, thanks to help from all the amazing people here.

 

And I admit it-- I'm obsessed, guys.

I go outside of this forum for my TK fix.

Like a lot of you, I read, watch and study everything and anything I can get my hands on that's TK-related.

So yeah-- I check out DIY every once in a while as well.

If you want to hold that against me, you're free to do so, but I think it's unfortunate.

 

Paul -- I think you're a great guy, a fantastic leader, and I deeply appreciate everything you do around here. The FISD simply wouldn't be what it is without you...

 

But with all due respect-- I think you're off the mark here.

You're well within your rights and duties to monitor and act on events that happen within the Legion and this detachment, but I think it's kind of lame to call out every member of website, when not everyone there participates in the stuff you have a beef with.

 

As you probably know, DIY has members who are on the Detachment Staff here... do you really think they're "anti-Legion"?

 

I like to look at pictures of Rolf's Sandtrooper. I'm not hocking TE2 knockoffs on eBay.

It's not fair to lump everyone in the same boat, or to imply that we're all subversive, or confrontational.

We're not.

 

You've always been straightforward and honest with me, Paul, so I'll pay you the consideration of doing the same: it's feeling a little witch-hunty.

 

We're talking about a couple of websites on the INTERNET.

Websites dedicated to stormtroopers... FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.... not KKK recruitment sites, or kiddie porn, or Al Qaeda's latest streaming video.

 

 

Just sayin'.

 

Respectfully,

 

Doug

 

P.S. -- sorry for the novel... I tend to turn into a windbag when I'm trying to make a point.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Thanks Doug for the excellent response. I've gotten the impression if I went & registered on the DIY forums that my account wouldn't be allowed to be activated, so I'm asking as I can't see for myself.

 

To my mind it's not a "one or the other". There are a lot of people here on both forums, I know. I'm not sure what I'd be witch-hunting for. As you note even some staff are dual members.

 

But without being able to see it makes me curious - if it's so good, I'd like to join too. It would be great to see all the things you describe as all that is forwarded on to me is anti-501st posts and other negativity. If I could see first hand the value of DIY, wouldn't that be a good thing?

[Sgt JB]

Not on the subject of the DIY boards, as Im not a member, and have never visited the site, I do have a question. And I'm just looking for clarification. CAP's molds are a TE reproduction, I'm assuming this to be correct? And has said that he doesn't care if others recast him. That being said, If someone wanted to recast CAP, wouldn't they also need permission from TE? I think I follow that the TE2 knee and ab buttons are not permitted, as they are someone else's work. Do I have this correct? I'm just trying to understand. But by this logic, any suits derived from CAPs are allowed to be recasted, as long as the current maker gives their permission?

 

I think I need to go lay down... my head hurts.

 

Also, on the subject of the DIY boards, I've registered, and never been activated. so take from that what you will.

[dougefresh]

I'm not gonna lie-- I think a lot of it would absolutely make your blood boil, Paul.

It can get pretty incendiary, and some of it really pisses me off too.

But it's an almost 1:1 ratio-- the complaints about the FISD almost always come from guys who were kicked out of the FISD.

The axe-grinders are pretty obvious, and I chalk a lot of it up to guys blowing off steam.

I don't agree with it, but I don't take any of it to heart either.

 

I filter out the negative stuff, sidestep the "outlaw" posturing and focus on the good things it has to offer.

 

I dunno... I try not to raise a fuss in either venue.

I just want to learn more about the hobby and make friends with fellow TK crazies.

[TK4205]

I've had an account at DYI since it started.

I love star wars.

I love building props.

I sculpt.

I was in the process of my own ANH sculpt, but destroyed it when I learned of the stormtrooper curse.

[Rolf[501st]]

I´m on:

http://mepd.net/

http://whitearmor.net/

http://diyprops.forumotion.com/login.forum?connexion

http://www.therpf.com/

http://nordicgarrison.net/

http://501st.com/

Etc etc...

 

I have been a member in the 501st for 10 years.

My costume hobby are only the ANH storm/sandtroopers, SO I JOIN ALL THE FORUMS THERE HAVE WISDOM ABOUT ANH/TKTD.

Why... well to study, look read and learn as much as i can about the TK/TD PERIOD!

 

There might be some recasters on DIY, but there are also some very talent dudes over there.

There really know there stuff.

Many of the DIY topic have extreme high quality, even for me after 10 years on the block.

I still learn new stuff on DIY, about the ANH TK/TD.

SO YES! i join a forum all over, as long as it have some thing to do whit my hobby.

I don´t see its a crime, just because i, and other 501st members, are members of a forum to study.

Come on, we do not recast ANY THING!

We are there to study, to learn, just as we are here.

 

I´m tired of this talk... AAAaaaaahhh

[Heatshock[501st]]

.......... CAP's molds are a TE reproduction, I'm assuming this to be correct? And has said that he doesn't care if others recast him. That being said, If someone wanted to recast CAP, wouldn't they also need permission from TE?

 

Eric - that was my concern abt CAP being acceptable now as well (as I stated in my original post)

 

As Paul already mentioned - the 'rights' go to who ever has accepted molds at the mo'

 

The way I see it - CAP is said to have gotten permission from TE (debate this separately, personally I think it was retrospective for save face from the large number of people who have got CAP stuff in the 501, cos come on - every1 knew what CAP was talking abt and kinda agreed.). So CAP is now a 501 accepted armour puller. Hence if any1 got CAPs stuff and wanted to recast from his armour, they would have to get CAPs permission, not TE's. CAP was also very open abt being ok abt other recasting his stuff. ie my original concern abt the flood gates being open to any1 with the skills and know-how to pull TE-derived armour.

 

As for DIY/FISD. I agree. It isnt wise to slam a whole forum. But I can copmpletely understand Pauls frustration. And I will admit - there prob is very good info on those boards. And I can imagine what it must be like to have a non-501 restricted board to freely discuss TK stuff ala Clone Empire and CT.net. Why then is DIY a closed forum?

Also - I take it by what you said douge that there are is a recasting cadre on the DIY - that can only be a good thing. But is there a stance against it? Last I heard PT was happily posting and sellin on that board? Or do DIYers consider PT to be a legit armourer as well then?

 

I imagine DIY and FISD are like any other forum beast. Theres lots of posturing and BS. Its slowly wading through the BS to find the pearls of info.

 

Nate

[Sgt JB]

I'm glad I made sense to someone

 

This whole discussion is so convoluted, it's very hard to follow. As someone who wants to get into vacuum forming, I find the whole conversation difficult to follow. I plan on making a vacuum table in the spring. Not so much for making Star Wars armor, I actually want to make life size Warhammer Space Marine and Imperial Guard armor, but would want to make my own replacement parts. (belt fronts, and the like) I actually started making my own belt molds recently (not recast, just out of wood)

 

I had planned on making some other pieces for taller troopers, forearms, thighs, shins, that kind of thing. But I'm going to be making my own molds, not copying. This endevor would be quite expensive, and I'm not make of $. So to help with the costs, my goal was to make fully assembled belts, and thermal detonators.

 

But I am glad we can talk about it without starting fights.

[Rolf[501st]]

Eric - that was my concern abt CAP being acceptable now as well (as I stated in my original post)

 

As Paul already mentioned - the 'rights' go to who ever has accepted molds at the mo'

 

The way I see it - CAP is said to have gotten permission from TE (debate this separately, personally I think it was retrospective for save face from the large number of people who have got CAP stuff in the 501, cos come on - every1 knew what CAP was talking abt and kinda agreed.). So CAP is now a 501 accepted armour puller. Hence if any1 got CAPs stuff and wanted to recast from his armour, they would have to get CAPs permission, not TE's. CAP was also very open abt being ok abt other recasting his stuff. ie my original concern abt the flood gates being open to any1 with the skills and know-how to pull TE-derived armour.

 

As for DIY/FISD. I agree. It isnt wise to slam a whole forum. But I can copmpletely understand Pauls frustration. And I will admit - there prob is very good info on those boards. And I can imagine what it must be like to have a non-501 restricted board to freely discuss TK stuff ala Clone Empire and CT.net. Why then is DIY a closed forum?

Also - I take it by what you said douge that there are is a recasting cadre on the DIY - that can only be a good thing. But is there a stance against it? Last I heard PT was happily posting and sellin on that board? Or do DIYers consider PT to be a legit armourer as well then?

 

I imagine DIY and FISD are like any other forum beast. Theres lots of posturing and BS. Its slowly wading through the BS to find the pearls of info.

 

Nate

 

As far as i know, TE never approve the CAP suit...

[NAZGÛL]

In some ways I'm confused that people are confused. The policies are pretty clear and I believe we've applied the standards evenly.

 

GF, AP, TM, TE2

These are considered OK. GF actually no longer makes armor, so should be a moot point. AP long ago was cleared as having acquired the molds as part of a transaction from TE and is thus OK. And, he's been doing it so long w/o any objection from anyone I'm not sure why it would be an issue. TM is a fan sculpt and thus 100% OK. TE2 like AP got molds from TE in a very open transaction and is also OK.

 

CAP (Chris AKA weiBes)

Direct molds of CAP are considered OK as best we've been able to determine, while he did recast TE somehow they made a deal. I've only seen parts of emails, but this is what we have and the community seems to have agreed and thus CAP is fine. CAP2 has some parts from TM & crashman (?) that are considered bad form, and it would be great to hear people's thoughts on this. Lastly, not all CAP parts are recast - he made is belt (at the least, it's different from TE) it seems. CAP also said he doesn't care if people recast him.

 

ATA is direct recast of CAP and took the steps to replace parts that were not OK (TM knee, control panel). Since he's done that, there seems to be no objections.

 

Scootch (CAP WEST) - pretty much the same as ATA though these are Chris' molds and not a recast of them. We've applied the same standard to ATA - replace the TM/crashman parts and will then be fine to sell. Sandtrooper should be fine (as someone asked).

 

PT - 100% not OK. He lied about his intent and then made a direct recast of TE2. He's no longer a Legion member either.

 

VT - fate undetermined. No one will claim to be him and since he's not tried selling on these boards I've ignored it for now. Should the real VT stand up it can be discussed at that time.

 

Pretty much direct recasting anyone's molds without permission is just a bad thing to do, regardless of how many generations it's removed.

 

I think it's pretty clear in the community that recasting any fan sculpt is flat out dishonest.

 

Some exceptions seems to be allowed, e.g. C6 was fine to recast when he stopped selling helmets, but everyone stopped doing that once he started again. IOW, it seems if people stop making parts.

 

TE

While TE has been banned from these boards for bad business practices, you'll note we allow the selling of TE suits as being OK if done via an honest intermediary, e.g. someone who delivers on time & is transparent in their dealings.

 

FX

Like TE this is done via an intermediary. Ward (Deckard) has been openly selling on these boards for a looooong time because he is delivering quality, direct made kits at a good price and provides excellent customer service.

 

Recast FX

Nope, bad form just like selling recast TM.

 

To me this post pretty much answers everything and IMO clears up the questions asked.