AP vs TM differences

[Rich330[TK]]

On one recent event (fund raising at a shopping mall) we had a FX, several APs (old and new), one custom made HIPS armor (GF lineage) and an SDS.

 

On subjective comparison, most of us agreed that the armor mostly perceived as "white" was the newer APs.

The old APs appear blueish by comparison.

The FX is the blueish of them all.

About the SDS, I can only cite a comment by one of our mates: "who was the 'yellow' trooper?"

 

This kind of "test" is probably the most reliable and valuable contribution to the colour discussion.

You have relatively good controlled conditions because all the different types of armour are being viewed under the same light source with very few extra distorting factors (no cameras, no PC monitors etc.) You also have group of subjective perceptions and some kind of consensus.

[Dmian]

What surprised me however, is that - despite all the above - Mark seems to be able to identify the plastic on my AP build as the old material from "a few years back".

Well, I think that seeing that the AP had a blue hue in the pictures and reading about an AP with a blue hue, Mark must have assumed you were one of his old customers, and not one of the newer.

But we'll have time to compare Conny's armor with mine if she comes to Toledo. Will she come finally?

Please! please! Find someone to take care of the dogs and make her come!

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

thanks goes out to dimian and rick for the detailed discussion.

 

I have my photographic details all worked out, and the photos I'm about to take will show my coated UV treated helmet alongside my

untreated helmet. I have 2 belts as well, and a set of TM handplates.

 

the photos will be taken with natural sunlight from a skylight in a white room with no other lights.

the background drop boards are completely white, so all shadows and colors will be naturally seen in natural light.

 

my camera will not be set to AUTO white balance. so the colors should show through in natural light.

 

natural light is colored with yellow and a little blue from the sky, but not much!

[TKDUEUNO]

You have to set the white balance manually for a proper calibration.

 

Put a pure white matte cardboard in front of the subject you want to photograph,

zoom in and focus, do the calibration, shoot.

Edited June 20, 2010 by TKDUEUNO

[Rich330[TK]]

And, after he's done all that ...

 

1. What will the weather be like on that day (with exact data on the light)?

2. What type of monitor do I have and how do I have it set?

 

Not trying to be disrespectful here but the whole excercise is largely pointless.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Rick330

[TKDUEUNO]

Agreed.

 

Or, since the white balance is digital-related, take the pictures with an analog camera, print them professionally without any processing,

have them scanned professionally, and then the results will always be skewed by everyone's different monitor settings.

 

All this apart, TM is a bit milkyer than AP, no doubt.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

it's just an illustration. a photographic opinion. just like any human interaction. facts skewed by technology, or just observation

skills. take it for what it is. just because someone thinks it's pointless, makes it all that more fun!

 

we already have rick's excellent digital observation. this will just be another piece of data to add to the whole concept.

 

if you'd like I'll shoot the photos from the same location, in the best natural light I can get,

then I'll wait several hours for the sun to go down and shoot the same photo with my GE softwhite bulbs,

with all my digital filters on. tripod shots, without moving the subjects, with a white

surrounding environment, and reflector boards.

 

just for fun.

[ABS80]

Am I to understand that when I purchased AP armour in March of this year, I received parts made with outdated "blue tinge" plastic "from a few years back"?

 

 

Your armor is made from the same exact plastic supplier I currently use with no blue tint, the blueish tint plastic was a very small batch long gone used over 3 years ago, in person the color is white no blue tint at all, Damian explained it perfectly it's very difficult almost impossible to photograph white and capture the same exact tone as if seen in person, reflection, lighting ect...play a big role, color of the surroudings is absorbed or reflected into the white color giving you various tints, some plastics are shinier than others reflecting different shades.

 

The photo with the various troopers clearly show the AP has no blue tint, even the older AP has no blue tint, I can see it's not made from the old blue plastic, it would have showed way more than that though not as much as the AFX which has a very high blue tint to it.

 

Mark

Edited June 20, 2010 by ABS80

[troopermaster]

Every AP armour part in the AP-TM comparison photos that Rich has posted is definately a blueish white compared to the TM ABS. I can't see why your saying it's not blue tone. My regular ABS is just the same. In fact, I was sent a sample of AP ABS when someone wanted to extra ABS for their kit and it was a very close match. The blue colour is more prominent is darker conditions whereas in lighter conditions it looks much whiter.

[yatia]

Every AP armour part in the AP-TM comparison photos that Rich has posted is definately a blueish white compared to the TM ABS. I can't see why your saying it's not blue tone. My regular ABS is just the same. In fact, I was sent a sample of AP ABS when someone wanted to extra ABS for their kit and it was a very close match. The blue colour is more prominent is darker conditions whereas in lighter conditions it looks much whiter.

 

You mention that every AP has a blueish tint but when I compare it to the white sections of the background of these very pages, the AP more closely matches it, whereas the TM has a more creamy white quality to it. Rich's pics are taken in (I'm assuming) excellent light conditions, but then again, I do live in Manchester and we don't get to see much sun!

 

I'm only judging from the comparison pictures that I've seen here, but all I can say is thanks to a great thread TK Bondservnt 2392, Rick330's pics and to both AP and TM, keep up the good work!

 

Ian

[troopermaster]

Forget the friggin backgrounds Can't you see the difference in shades of white in each photo posted by Rich?

[yatia]

Forget the friggin backgrounds Can't you see the difference in shades of white in each photo posted by Rich?

 

Steady on Paul, there's no need to be rude. As I stated in my post, I can see the difference in the shades of white, the TM being a more creamy white. This is purely my personal observation on the pictures that have been posted in this thread.

 

Ian

[troopermaster]

TM = Creamy White

AP = Blueish White

 

Yes/no?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

excellent descriptions from the armor makers themselves! kudos!

 

I am working on my lighting conditions. this is after all "rocket science"

 

I think that AP is white, and TM is white.

 

the idea of a cream color would be an addition of yellow.

 

when I grind up AP ABS from 2009 I can clearly see that there are small grains of

a light grey tint. you can see that it's capped, and transforms during heat forming.

the internal quality of the rubber content and the colorant can be seen in the dust.

 

I have never ground up TM ABS, but I can also see that it's capped with a color

and a shine.

 

if you wanted a really shiny super clear finish, go with TM.

 

if you want a more soft effect, then AP is a choice.

 

I like the AP compared to FX/AM which to me looks like a piece of paper.

 

if you look closely at my transforming graphic on my avatar you can see the ANH

photo (which is taken near the Millenium Falson, was color corrected to be

more yellow, to match the yellow lighting in the scene.

 

and in my ESB transformation I used a more blue color correction to match

the lighting in cloud city's upper room.

 

by having the photograph color balanced, the white automatically balances

with the photograph's "color table"

 

so no matter what color your armor is, the surroundings will tint the white

in photos.

Edited June 20, 2010 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Dmian]

On 6/21/2010 at 5:57 AM, troopermaster said:

Every AP armour part in the AP-TM comparison photos that Rich has posted is definately a blueish white compared to the TM ABS.

That's because even Rich's hands look blueish... he looks cyanotic!

I don't know what happened to Rich's camera, but the whole set has a blue tint all over.

The AP is a neutral white to my eyes, and it closely matches the only acrylic capped armor I've seen (the SDS.)

The "blue" AP from the old batch is noticeable, as well as the blue cast from the FX.

 

Here's something for you to see:

These are part of my EIB application set. Other than resizing, I've done nothing to these pictures with Photoshop. All the changes are in the light and the white balance of the camera (a Canon 400D).

 

---------

 

Top picture: more direct sunlight (see the shadows in the wall.)

Bottom picture: clouds covered the sun, changes to white balance made to have a more "cooler" overall hue.

 

This is the same AP, under different light conditions and with different White Balance applied to the same camera.

In the top picture it looks almost yellow. In the bottom one, it has a blue cast. But you can also see the differences in the wall.

Funny, isn't it?

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

hey damian,

 

very good concept photo showing why outdoor photos can change in moments.

nice touch in showing how the white balance can effect photos.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

some eye candy.

 

lights off

 

 

and lights on

 

 

 

TM handplates.

 

belts are AP models 2009 and 20010

09 belt has been UV treated.

10 belt has no belt caps on it yet to show difference.

10 belt is raw and untreated just like the 10 helmet.

 

helmets are UV coated ESB version on the upper left from 09

non coated AP model 2010 plastic helmet on the upper right.

Edited June 21, 2010 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[TK-4510[501st]]

The comparison shots in this thread are awesome!

[ABS80]

TM = Creamy White

AP = Blueish White

 

Yes/no?

 

 

No blue in person and made sure of that.

 

I sent a plastic sample of the white color and told the plastic maker I wanted absolutely no blue tint in it, when I see my plastic in person there's no blue tint in it, I buy the plastic locally from a company that makes my ABS plastic and is not just a supplier, I can send them whatever white plastic sample and they can very closely match it.

 

Mark

Edited June 21, 2010 by ABS80

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I'm thinking about taking the ABS down to a paint store and having them optically generate numbers from the 3 ABS types I have.

I need some paint for my fabric belts, boots and handplates in latex.

 

on the far left.

 

valspar plastic paint on latex handplates

 

on top

 

AP 2009 handplates.

 

on bottom right

 

TM handplates 2009 ESB model 1 ( I believe that TM offers slimmer handplates now. )

 

[Rich330[TK]]

There was a request for pictures of AP and TM parts side-by-side earlier in the thread. The purpose was to compare shape and size, i.e. not colour.

 

PLEASE DO NOT USE MY PHOTOS AS A RELIABLE REPRODUCTION OF COLOUR

 

I give up!

 

Despite being the (very poor) photographer and saying myself that my pictures are of no use whatsover for colour comparisons, my post was being ignored and the nonsensical colour debate continued. I have therefore replaced the original photos with black and white versions.

 

They are for a rough comparison of the size and shape of the parts, not colour.

 

If anybody wants to compare the colour of 2010 TM with the colour 2010 AP, you're welcome to stop by when my wife and I are out trooping together.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Rick330

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

well,

 

rick... you can display your photographs any way that you'd like.

 

I actually prefer the colored ones.

 

but to each his own.

 

everyone has always liked the debate on armor color. it's just a part of the hobby itself.

 

every contribution to the ideas, and concepts that this thread offers are really fun.

 

I hope that you'd re consider your decision about your images... the originals were just fine.

 

it's great to see comparison shots.

 

I was thinking that putting these alongside the LFL studio shots would always be fun.

 

a comparison between original, SDS TM and AP... would be good to see.

 

and yeah... we'd probably be talking about scale, color, design and detail.

 

it's just a part of the overall interesting thing that is white armor.

Edited June 21, 2010 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[yatia]

I give up!

It's a shame but I understand why you do it. I came to the thread late and was one to carry it on for which I apologize. I think this thread has been refreshing however and your images are excellent references. (btw, all the pics from your first build have disappeared?)

 

If anybody wants to compare the colour of 2010 TM with the colour 2010 AP, you're welcome to stop by when my wife and I are out trooping together.

No doubt this will always be the best option when wishing to look at making comparisons between different builds. I'm looking forward to seeing a TM "in the flesh" as it were, later in the year!

 

Time for me to finish my build then...

 

Ian

[TK-4510[501st]]

Hey I just noticed this thread a day ago. Dont give up so soon. Please post all the pics of TM armor you can and compare it to the AP line or TE line. I think its great.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

FWIW, I've been enjoying the back and forth. While it seems tangential to your original intent, it's discussions like these that bring to light the facts of the matter. I'd ask you not be discouraged by them as I think it is sometimes the only way information is brought to light. Having both makers chime in directly and with special help in supplemental lighting pictures from the members has made this one of the best threads we've seen in awhile.

 

Secondly, I'd like to thank everyone for keeping the tone civil, as not every armor maker is able to present facts clearly without resorting to baiting, flaming, etc. Hats off gents