AP vs TM differences

[troopermaster]

On 3/29/2010 at 8:47 PM, TK-8224 said:

Talking about size, does anyone have pictures of TM and AP armour beside each other for size comparison? I'm looing for a second suit, and after reading this thread I'm not sure which one is best for my height. I'm 5'4". A kit can be totally awesome, but if you have to cut off all the good stuff there is no awesomeness left. Is the AP really that much shorter? How much bigger is the TM kit?

 

I have photo comparisons of TM vs SDS which is a recast of GF if this helps?

 

I can take measurements of any pieces you like and maybe someone with AP can measure their pieces to compare?

 

Here's a quick sample-

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
photo updated gmrhodes13 2021

[TK-8224[501st]]

Thanks for that picture, it's just what I needed to know! I have an AP kit myself, and now I know for sure that I can't have a bigger kit. I can see now that I can never fit a TM. Sad, but true. Well, I guess I'll just reshape the thighs a bit instead.

 

Thanks a lot for clearing that up!

Edited March 29, 2010 by TK-8224

[TooMuchGarlic]

Thanks for that picture, it's just what I needed to know! I have an AP kit myself, and now I know for sure that I can't have a bigger kit. I can see now that I can never fit a TM. Sad, but true. Well, I guess I'll just reshape the thighs a bit instead.

The TM is the one to the left.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I'll do the AP measurements photos. it's my duty!

[Rich330[TK]]

As promised, some side-by-side shots of TM and AP. Only the thighs so far but I'll take pictures of other parts tomorrow if I get time.

 

TM on the left, AP on the right, of course.

 

---------course just a bit of extra trimming by me.

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[firebladejedi[TK]]

Nice pics Richard

[Amish Trooper]

I never realized how big TM ws. Those are nice shots and beautiful lines. Paul stuff is the $#@!*

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

now that is what this thread is for!

to outline and show off the details.

 

nice job!

[Rich330[TK]]

More photos as promised ...

 

---------- not confusing.

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[darthgarth]

Ok dokey. Ive read all this thread, and i have an FX kit (cost reasons) that i bought nearly two years ago. I am sloowly building but due to budget, child and business, i dont have a lot of time to spare. This overlap against butt joint thing, as i am doing an anh suit, do i hear this correctly that i should be trimming off the overlaps and then butt jointing and cover strips? (im assuming only the fronts are cover strips as i was planning to velcro the backs of the forearms and calves.

Not a major panic as i only have very minor things done so far. Yes i know that the fx isnt super accurate but it was all i could afford at the time, (and i admit i probably could have done more research)

 

I could 'whack it' together but its a shame when with a little more effort..............

 

what would you guys do?

[troopermaster]

Nice comparisons Rich

[Rich330[TK]]

As we're talking about details ...

 

I have been working on the torso of my TM kit a lot today and I noticed something I had never picked up on from photos.

The TM very accurately replicates certain nuances of the abdomen area that you don't notice till you have the parts in your hands.

 

First off, the slightly bulbous left-hand side that you can see clearly in this picture ...

 

-----------

 

... and how the way the "circuit" design in the ab area is very off-centre. It's really quite a wonky piece of work and it's all reflected in the TM kit. It just keeps blowing me away the more I discover.

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[Rich330[TK]]

do i hear this correctly that i should be trimming off the overlaps and then butt jointing and cover strips?

 

It's how it was done on the original suits (used in ANH & ESB). It's not a requirement for the 501st Legion or even for EIB but if you want to "go the extra mile" ...

 

what would you guys do?

 

It's more work but it looks great and is very rewarding. I chose to cut off the overlaps from the AP I built and with TM, of course, you have no choice, it's a direct replica of an ANH suit (i.e. no ROTJ lineage and no overlapped seams).

I personally would always do butt joints, regardless of what kit it is.

[darthgarth]

Its something to think about, i am planning to pimp the suit out a bit so it would be a shame not to, however i do need to consider my skill level.

 

ill have a good look at the stuka ap build and hopefully a tm build and then decide.

 

thanks for the imput.

[Rich330[TK]]

ill have a good look at the stuka ap build

 

Great place to start. It was the one thing that finally gave me the confidence to take on the butt joints for my first build. It's not really that difficult - it's just a question of being properly prepared - and the Stukatrooper pictures give you all the information you need. Good luck.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

the AP has a twist on the AB plate, and it is a little bulbous on the left.

 

great comparison shots... exactly what people need to decide on their body fit!

[Johnny Wishbone]

Hi all, does the current AP armour still have that blue tinge to it? Not sure if that will go well with my brilliant White TM lid!

[ABS80]

No more blueish tint plastic, that was many years ago, our original supplier suddently went bankrupt and the new supplier sent us what they had in stock,

we now deal with a plastic company which custom makes our plastic to our specs.

 

Mark

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I purchased a helmet in 2009 and a helmet in 2010. I'll post 'natural lighting' photos with no flash

for a color comparison.

 

I have some troopermaster hand plates ESB style from 2009 that I can also show for a color comparison.

 

the color on 2010 AP armor helmets is really good!

[troopermaster]

I have some troopermaster hand plates ESB style from 2009 that I can also show for a color comparison.

 

Aren't the photos above already showing the colour differences?

[ABS80]

Aren't the photos above already showing the colour differences?

 

That's from a few years back, he will compare with the new plastic I currently use which is pure white.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

color differences between AP models 2009 and 2010 sir.

my photos will show current AP model colors, compared to 2009.

 

I coat my ABS with a coating, so it also adds a color variance.

but I have not coated my current 2010 gear, so this is a great op to see the color

difference between coated old, and new uncoated. then I will coat the new material

and show that.

 

I use a nano particulate wax with a UV blocker... so it protects from the sun.

 

my ESB helmet is a 09 AP coated with a UV blocker- so it's not completely bare.

my STUNT helmet is a 10 AP completely bare at this point.

Edited June 19, 2010 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Rich330[TK]]

That's from a few years back, he will compare with the new plastic I currently use which is pure white.

 

Am I to understand that when I purchased AP armour in March of this year, I received parts made with outdated "blue tinge" plastic "from a few years back"?

[Dmian]

Mmmm, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. Let me see if I can clarify a bit.

 

First, I've never seen a TM directly. I think Rich's will be the first one I'll see live, so I can't speak for the TM. I'll speak about an SDS instead, that I've seen in front of me. The SDS is acrylic capped ABS, as the TM. I don't know how it compares to the TM, so don't think that the TM might look like an SDS at all. I mention it because it's different from the FX and the AP.

We'll have time to compare the TM at our September 25th event in Toledo, when Rich will probably sport his TM. I'll promise I'll take comparison pictures of it against the APs (old and new) and the FX and SDS, if available.

 

About Rich's pictures: Rich took the pictures outside, at what looks like a balcony. Most modern cameras have Automatic White Balance (AWB). I think Rich's camera took the "pure white" sample from the TM. By comparison, the AP turned out blueish, probably because it reflected the sky a bit.

 

The Spanish Garrison has a lot of its members with AP, so we have samples from different AP batches. My AP is from the new ABS, the one Mark is mentioning.

 

On one recent event (fund raising at a shopping mall) we had a FX, several APs (old and new), one custom made HIPS armor (GF lineage) and an SDS.

 

On subjective comparison, most of us agreed that the armor mostly perceived as "white" was the newer APs.

The old APs appear blueish by comparison.

The FX is the blueish of them all.

About the SDS, I can only cite a comment by one of our mates: "who was the 'yellow' trooper?"

 

The reason why the SDS appeared yellower may be that, as acrylic capped ABS is shinnier that the ABS used in APs, and we had some afternoon sun light coming from the top windows of the mall (sun gets more golden hues as it settles) it reflected the gold hues more than the APs.

But that doesn't mean that the SDS has a yellow hue, it's just that acrylic capped ABS is shinier than regular ABS.

 

The shinnier the armor, the more it reflects the light it gets from the environment.

So, please, don't jump into conclusions by seeing pictures taken under non-optimal light conditions with cameras set to AWB.

The only way to decently compare the different hues would be to take a studio picture with controlled light and using a color correction chart.

 

Here you have a picture of the event:

 

-----------

 

From left to right: FX, new AP, SDS, old AP, HIPS armor (matte finish)

The light is not ideal. Which one looks whiter? Which one has a blue hue?

 

White is a tricky "color" to handle. Most white objects have a hue to it (even paper.) It may be imperceptible or notable. Hue can be blue, red, yellow (most common) or green (less common) depending on the pigments used. The whitest pigment usually used is titanium white.

White is prone to pick up hues from environment's light. A white object might never appear the same hue if you change light conditions. So if you are inside a mall with fluorescent light you may appear blueish, and if you go outside with natural sun light you may appear yellowish.

We expect certain hues to white depending on our perception of the white object. For example, "snow white" is expected to have a blueish hue, if it has a yellow hue, it may not work for your brain an will be perceive as "weird" (this is important in graphic design. If you have to make brochures that may have snow pictures, you have to make shure the paper you print on has a blue hue.)

 

So, as Rich said, both the TM and the AP look a nice shade of white to him. The fact that the AP turned out blueish in the pictures might be from several different reasons, including ambient light, the way the camera made AWB, etc.

 

We have several new APs in the SG, and all appear to be the same color, so AP batches are consistent as far as I can tell.

 

As a little experiment, I took one of Rich's picture and modified the white balance using different parameters. Bear in mind that the picture already has hues applied to it, so it's very difficult to get rid of them without changing the original colors.

 

-------------

Top-left: original picture.

top-right: white point taken from AP part. Look how some red hue start to get into TM, as it was reflected from the floor.

botton-left: white point taken from the wall. Look how both have a slight blue hue.

bottom-right: color balance correction to reflect a standard perception (Rich might have perceived something closer to this).

 

Cheers.

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[Rich330[TK]]

EDIT(21.06.10): The comments below were largely being ignored. I have therefore now replaced the original colour photos with black and white versions. My photos are not for colour comparisons.

 

Just to make something clear here ...

 

There was a request for pictures of AP and TM parts side-by-side earlier in the thread. The purpose was to compare shape and size, i.e. not colour.

 

I offered to post pictures as the owner of both types of armour.

 

I would never post photos on an internet forum as any kind of accurate representation of colour. There are too many variables, e.g.

 

Light conditions

My camera and its settings, its settings and relative quality

My image processing software, its settings and relative quality

The monitors of other users, their settings and relative quality

 

If you want to accurately compare colour, you have to do so under controlled conditions, i.e. put the parts in a light box with a standardised light source (TL84 (the light source used in Marks & Spencers stores), DL65 etc.)

 

Even then, much is down to a subjective perception.

 

PLEASE DO NOT USE MY PHOTOS AS A RELIABLE REPRODUCTION OF COLOUR

 

I made this comment ...

 

The AP is instantly recognisable as it has a bluish tint to it, the TM is a yellower white (in relation to AP).

 

... for identification purposes only, i.e. so it would be easier to pick out the respective parts in the photos.

 

I also qualified the comment:

 

That doesn't mean either is yellow or blue. They both have a nice white shade to them.

 

 

What surprised me however, is that - despite all the above - Mark seems to be able to identify the plastic on my AP build as the old material from "a few years back".

Edited June 21, 2010 by Rick330