AP vs TM differences

[synaptyx]

Wow. First of me reading through this thread.

 

[stukatrooper]

I've had the Privilege of owning an FX,RT-MOD AP and two TM suits.I have enjoyed everyone of them.I have also spent many an hour sharing other folks builds who share there Experiences with there journey,I also look to others for help and knowledge far greater than mine in this subject of (STORMTROOPER)

 

If i had wanted to build my AP kit ROTJ style i would have overlapped all the parts,i did not.I wanted a ANH looking suit so i butt jointed with the ANH finishing strip.

 

That's all i have to say in this thread other than the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

[firebladejedi[TK]]

stukatrooper said:

Thats all i have to say in this thread other than the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

 

 

 

It was an honor trooping with you yesterday

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[davej[TK]]

That's all i have to say in this thread other than the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

*sigh*

Indeed.

I've watched this thread since it started. I've not known if I should laugh or cry.

Does the FISD have a Sainthood award? I believe some should be handed out.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I've had the Privilege of owning an FX,RT-MOD AP and two TM suits.I have enjoyed everyone of them.I have also spent many an hour sharing other folks builds who share there Experiences with there journey,I also look to others for help and knowledge far greater than mine in this subject of (STORMTROOPER)

 

If i had wanted to build my AP kit ROTJ style i would have overlapped all the parts,i did not.I wanted a ANH looking suit so i butt jointed with the ANH finishing strip.

 

That's all i have to say in this thread other than the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

 

 

I really want to thank you for a great tutorial.

the aspects you taught me lead me to be a little confused at first.

and it taught me a lot about my forearms, and how to fix em.

 

but it looks like troopermaster cleared everything up nicely.

 

it's a very subtle difference in appearance when you overlap the legs and arms as I've seen

in a couple of builds.

 

so for an AP build according to the ANH method we have your excellent method.

 

and for a comparable build type you'd have to do the ROTJ mods back onto the armor

with the trim on the edges and other subtle mods

using the overlap method.

 

it would be like going back to the original sculpt.

or at least trying to.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

hello out there,

 

I just thought this comparison photo might help the people out there.

 

I've been talking with paul a bit about the top of the AP kit left thigh.

 

I made this photo out of the original he posted and added my own trimming.

 

which I did before I even started this thread.

 

the overlap, and the finishing strip dimensions are what I was going for... lets' see

 

what the photo shows:

 

 

 

I love the TM kit, and I love the AP kit.

 

regards,

 

vern

[firebladejedi[TK]]

If you trimmed the ap like that you would make the left thigh really short, it's already marginally shorter than the right thigh. I would leave them as they are personally.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

If you trimmed the ap like that you would make the left thigh really short, it's already marginally shorter than the right thigh. I would leave them as they are personally.

 

 

that trim does not take anything off the vertical dimension.

[TooMuchGarlic]

I don't consider AP to be the END all... of accuracy... after all... we soon will have armor from LFL itself that might contend with our

desire for accuracy. hopefully we won't see another rubies style incident with the new LFL armor that is coming out!

If TM comes out with the 3 versions of armor with all the differences intact... then he should

be the LFL consultant for the new licensed armor. I'm sure that if enough 501st members

started a petition to LFL then perhaps GL would consider issuing a 501st "version" of the

armor as an "alternate/special" type of product.

I just liked the idea that I could get a suit cast from an original, no matter what "generation"

a silicone cast is... that's not much more than 1/2 a MM in difference.

What is this new armor you speak of? Is it the coming Museum Replicas armor?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

well, during late 09 there was some discussion about armor from windlass studios.

then we have the rubies problem.

 

I guess that post is just my way of supporting TM's artwork as being closer to AP.

he might be the best choice for an official armorer.

 

I like AP because it's lineage keeps it as close to the original as a recast can be... even if it's 4th gen.

 

I like TM because he is Re- crafting the intimate details of the armor.

 

my only drawback for the TM kit itself is the apparent curves, and size differences.

 

I learned a lot from the photos showing in this thread.

 

the academy will most likely be a much better place for recruits to study armor kits.

eventually it would be interesting to see an armor lineup showing all the differences in

all the armor kits out there.

[troopermaster]

my only drawback for the TM kit itself is the apparent curves, and size differences.

 

Size differnce compared to what...AP?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

The size difference is because of my own body. Since the AP is for smaller people, ""like the originals...** "" I needed a little shorter thigh, and larger arms,

and smaller shins for my body type.

 

the curves I'm seeing in TM armor legs and thighs just seem a little deep. everything else looks really good.

 

the bicep, arms, and other parts look really good on the TM kit.

 

after looking closely at the biceps alone I really wonder what the heck GF was getting his stuff from in the first place.

 

** as I've been informed by troopers on the web

[troopermaster]

LOL.

 

You have been **misinformed**

 

AP looks much better on short guys because it is a 4th or 5th generation recast which means each time it is recast, the moulds get cleaned up, shortened and shrinks in the process. I could show you photos **like the thigh I posted** and you would be amazed and just how **misinformed** you really are

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

my 'misinformation' is why I started this thread.

to become more educated about armor.

 

I must say that "cleaning up a mould" would not make it smaller.

material can be added or taken away from a mould easially enough.

 

after looking closely at armor in general I don't even think that

AP armor itself is close to the original at all.

 

the details in the biceps, and thighs lead me to believe that

the old GF moulds were not cast from the source we all think

they were created from.

 

I've already accepted your idea that it's a recast 4th gen. I dont debate that.

-----------

 

this thread is all about me accepting your statements about casting, and recasting.

 

and I have already praised you for re-creating a lot of the 'lost details'

in armor paul... so I have learned a lot.

 

and I'm sure other troopers might learn from this as well...

Edited January 28, 2021 by gmrhodes13
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[TooMuchGarlic]

Well, the AP comes from a reworked RotJ copy from a real suit. It was reworked from RotJ look into something more closely resembling the ANH look, but since reverse engineering sometimes fail to capture what was originally there, having to work from a changed form is more difficult than one should think. There are NO direct cast from screen used ANH suits available. NONE. They are all reworked from a RotJ suit + spare parts from other sources.

 

It is very clear that a lot of work has been put into the GF suit and the later AP, but they are more idealized suits than some of the others, cleaned up and made more pretty, while still retaining some of what harks back to the originals.

 

Not to get into that debate, but within the community, the word recast is used to label those copying someone else's stuff without permission, while those working with permission or casting from screen used are simply said to be copying or replicating. Big distinction. And the misuse of the word "recasting" is what is causing all these headaches and heated discussions - the term was formed in the model kit community, as far as I know, to label thieves and those copying without permission.

 

Staff, I can easily erase the last clarification, if you'd rather keep all that out of this discussion.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Actually that's the perfect distinction. Another is that in the model community if you copy it and then improve on what you copied, I do not believe they consider that recasting. Recasting is typically unaltered from the original, correct? I mean, in addition to being done w/o permission.

[TooMuchGarlic]

Actually that's the perfect distinction. Another is that in the model community if you copy it and then improve on what you copied, I do not believe they consider that recasting. Recasting is typically unaltered from the original, correct? I mean, in addition to being done w/o permission.

Actually, no. It's much simpler in the model kit community, anything you copy without permission is a recast, even if you alter it - and even if you copy the licensed stuff. It's much more black and white in that community - if it is not a sculpt you made and you mold and cast it, you are recasting.

 

It is the same in the prop community, except we allow the "cast from screen used" variant and in part the copy from licensed depending on whether it is a current license or expired. Some want it tighter like it is in the model kit community, some want it looser, where it is free for all.

[ABS80]

LOL.

 

You have been **misinformed**

 

AP looks much better on short guys because it is a 4th or 5th generation recast which means each time it is recast, the moulds get cleaned up, shortened and shrinks in the process. I could show you photos **like the thigh I posted** and you would be amazed and just how **misinformed** you really are

 

 

Paul,

 

You are misinformed as well, the AP is made from 1st generation ROTJ pulls not 4th or 5th like you stated. Please get your facts straights before posting false information.

 

furthermore, depending on the products you use there's almost no shrinkage or very minimal impossible to notice the difference.

 

Mark

Edited March 28, 2010 by ABS80

[troopermaster]

No they are not.

 

You told me yourself that you made new moulds and you are not using the ones you got from GF. GF cast a casting from a 1st gen casting of a TE, altered it and made new castings, so they were 3rd gen when you recieved them. Your new moulds are 4th gen.

[ABS80]

No they are not.

 

You told me yourself that you made new moulds and you are not using the ones you got from GF. GF cast a casting from a 1st gen casting of a TE, altered it and made new castings, so they were 3rd gen when you recieved them. Your new moulds are 4th gen.

 

 

I never told you that, I said I reworked some areas on my original GF molds to closer match ANH, I didn't make new molds, but I correct myself my molds are not 1st but 2nd generation since they come from 1st generation TE pulls and not 4th generation. Again whatever shrinkage your talking about your post is misleading by making it sound like they shrunk by inches!

 

Mark

Edited March 28, 2010 by ABS80

[SirDenzington89]

its just plastic

[troopermaster]

Any amount of cleaning up is reducing the original shape. To clean up any area, you have to remove material, therefore reducing size and shape. Yes, it is minimal and I never meant it to sound like inches, though I don't think it sounds like that.

 

You told me you made new moulds since the ones you got from GF were fibreglass backed with expandable foam, no good for a professional machine. You said your new moulds are made from a resin much like a bowling ball type material. I can look for the emails if you want?

 

@Jonathan,

 

It's much more than plastic to me my friend

[ABS80]

I improved some areas to more match the ANH, it doesn't mean I reduced any size by doing this.

 

Mark

Edited March 29, 2010 by ABS80

[TK-8224[501st]]

Talking about size, does anyone have pictures of TM and AP armour beside each other for size comparison? I'm looing for a second suit, and after reading this thread I'm not sure which one is best for my height. I'm 5'4". A kit can be totally awesome, but if you have to cut off all the good stuff there is no awesomeness left. Is the AP really that much shorter? How much bigger is the TM kit?

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I guess I'd like to make it very clear paul (troopermaster), and mark (AP), I value, praise and admire both of your kits.

 

and I can say AGAIN... I have learned quite a lot from you paul... and I admire you for the details you're

putting BACK into the armor from an ANH perspective.

 

maybe you might want to realize that I have changed my opinion quite a bit since this thread started.

 

and thanks goes out to AP for helping us to clear up the lineage questions.