Talking about recasted armor or pointing fingers?

[sskunky]

I am beginning to think the same thing?

Why are you here?

All you've done is argue and say that we are breaking LFL rules! I suggest for someone that doesn't actually own a licensed replica you keep quite about these views, get to know us all better and generally join in in a team like manner. We are all one big happy White shiney family here with the same interests. You really aren't winning friends or influencing people here with you sour views. I know we are all entitled to our own views and opinions but you've chosen the wrong place to champion inaccurate licensed products and recasters.

Sorry, has to be said.

Chill out join in and above all learn and have fun.

Edited August 8, 2010 by sskunky

[Rob .T .[TK]]

Ther is one simple fact.

The sale of illegal replica stormtrooper armour is small scale...

 

A few hundred suits a year split between many makers. Its just too much like hard work and expensive for LucasFilm to send their copyright lawyers after all the minions.

If Rubies or one of the people who PAY Lucasfilm for the rights to produce star wars stuff felt their market was being infringed excessively by the illegal fraudsters (hard words, but true remember) they would complain to Lucas and he would have to act in their defence.

The secret is , keep your heads down and your nose clean and at this present time you can continue making a profit from your stolen ideas.(again, hard words but basically true)

 

The fact that the END PRODUCT is being used by people for non profit/charity events is not the point ...its the fact that these illegal producers are making money out of selling stolen copyrighted designs that will/might eventually lead to prosecution by Lucasfilm ... and possible an end to our hobby.

 

Recasting is a pointless argument .. how can anyone complain if someone copys their work??..they copied it off Lucasfilm in the first place.

 

The only people who have any legitimate right to sell likenesses of Lucasfilm copyright designs are people who pay Lucasfilm for a liscense to do so ... Hasbro, Rubies etc etc .

 

The only people who have the right to complain abut recasters are people who produce ORIGINAL ideas that are copied. No stormtrooper armour is anyones original idea except Lucasfilm.

 

This whole thread is risky, and should be considered by the mods for removal.

 

Just my twopenntworth...

[sskunky]

To say recasting is a pointless argument is just a poor excuse for an argument. I for one have payed a huge amount of money out for a set of moulds cast from an original screen used suit. If anyone goes and blatantly recasts it then you will have the wrath of me to deal with. You obviously have no problem with recasters and therefor will not be in line for any of the new helmets and armour never before offered to the community.

Why as adults we can't discuss is beyond me. To even participate in the thread was pointless if you feel it needs removing?

If you think the whole discussion is not worth being here then why join in? I personally don't see the point of people like you or lightside having a place n this community with views like this?

[Rob .T .[TK]]

If We`re talking about the legalities of armour production for sale ...what I say stands.

 

As to my own activities in this hobby , I would love more screen accurate armour, and as Im not associated with any copyright owners I dont care who makes what or if they make a profit out of me, as I said , Im just pointing out the legalities of copyright theft.

 

Im just joining in as someone experienced in copyright legalities, and as an outsider to the armour production community, to point out the legal side of this argument.

 

Blatant advertising of copyright infringers may bring this community down for good..non of us want that to happen.

[sskunky]

Fair enough but I think most of us are aware that we hold no legal rights to recast screen used props who's ever they are. However there are "rights" within the hobby community which do say that it is accepted to cast a screen used prop and offer accurate replicas to the community. To recast these offerings un not permitted. With out this unofficial rule recasters would be rife and you will have nothing but props without direct lineage to screen used.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

The bottom line is this: the 501st is a community. We are a 501st site that exists to look out for the interests of said community and it's policies. Direct recasting of a fan sculpt or molds someone bought hurts our community. It's also a 501st policy not to condone recasting.

 

You can argue all you want about "honor among thieves" or "well it's all just recast anyway" but those are irrelevant. What is relevant is when such activities negatively affect our membership/community here on FISD.

 

I am not the recast police nor do I want to be. I don't run around THD or RPF or other non-501st sites looking for recast behavior, nor anywhere else on the 'net.

 

I will vigorously protect my membership though, and their concerns. So, in the whole 'recast debate' here on FISD it should be seen in that context.

[lightside]

 

 

You can argue all you want about "honor among thieves" or "well it's all just recast anyway" but those are irrelevant. What is relevant is when such activities negatively affect our membership/community here on FISD.

 

Yes, you're right.

I apologize if I seemed to defend recaster. I do not want to change rules or someone's mind either.

I only saw the section here to speak about that and I just posted my opinion.

I bought one of the first FX from its own sculpter/creator Dale (ex TK510) when Galaxy Trading were still on the market in 2002. He had been banned from the 501st because he sold on ebay his products, and that was against the 501 rules. But the point is there wouldn't be any 501 without him, since no other armors were produced at that time! When GT closed its activity, people wishing to join the 501st applied by buying FX recasts, thousand of them.

The FX original sculpter was banned because played against the rules, and after people was allowed buying FX recasts for years on ebay to join and enlarge the 501, and now that FX armors are no more useful, because of new and more accurate sculpters, recast hunting restarts. Is this a solid base to create a rule? This is the thing I do not understand and would like to know what people thinks. I'm far from 501 since 2005, many people has changed and with them the rules of course.

I'm sorry for some misunderstanding, I just only find this debate interesting, but if you want I can stop talking about this. No prolem to me.

Edited August 8, 2010 by lightside

[lightside]

I am beginning to think the same thing?

Why are you here?

All you've done is argue and say that we are breaking LFL rules! I suggest for someone that doesn't actually own a licensed replica you keep quite about these views, get to know us all better and generally join in in a team like manner. We are all one big happy White shiney family here with the same interests. You really aren't winning friends or influencing people here with you sour views. I know we are all entitled to our own views and opinions but you've chosen the wrong place to champion inaccurate licensed products and recasters.

Sorry, has to be said.

Chill out join in and above all learn and have fun.

No problem. If I go out of the line you are right to notice me.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

No problem. If I go out of the line you are right to notice me.

It's all good Daniele. I started in 2005 and I'll agree that much has changed since then. Perhaps the largest drivers are twofold:

 

1) The Legion is much bigger, and has expanded far beyond just Vader and the TK's. The recast debate used to center on that, but now we have to consider clones too which are all 100% fan sculpt, for instance. If you think TK armor has drama, it's nothing compared to the world of clones.

 

2) There is more visibility and sensitivity with LucasFilm. The 501st is now actually copyrighted by LFL, and the events far more visible in nature. In a way it gives the 501st some protection/support from LFL, but it also means we are more tightly bound to play by the rules that they set forth.

 

And people change too. There was a time where recasting TE directly would also be considered a negative I think, but he has in the past 5 years burned so many bridges no one cares about him anymore, as he has through his behavior demonstrated that he doesn't really care much about the 501st and it's members either.

 

In the end for myself at least what I treasure is transparency. When I joined the Legion the kind of information that we're posting here was very, very hard to come by and new people were duped in to buying things they probably wouldn't have if they had been given transparent information / full disclosure.

 

In a way it's less about recasting per se and more about ensuring people have honest information. What people chose to do with that information after that is a personal decision.

 

The reason you don't find "bad" recasters here on FISD is that most won't come clean about their activities, or have awful business dealings.

[lightside]

 

 

The reason you don't find "bad" recasters here on FISD is that most won't come clean about their activities, or have awful business dealings.

 

I understand perfectly.

If I would be a sculpter, or a cast-off orginal moulds buyer, I think I would be angry with recasters. But I'm neither a sculpter nor a mould buyer, so I'm judging the thing with external eyes. I must also consider license rights, Rubies has its right to be angry to sculpters and recasters as well as the sculpters are against recasters.

This means I defend only LFL rights? Nope. As I said, I had an FX armour and an AP helmet. I love AP stuff, also TM stuff, Gino stuff, etc... and I would like to have money to buy all of their jobs.

I agree with you when you talk about dishonest sellers and that they're mostly among recasters, but what I do not understand is why some good people among them shouldn't have the opportunity to bring their job as allowed to many others. So when I hear "because they don't play by LFL rule" my question "Does AP?" comes spontaneus. Do I worng? Maybe but I nerver had any response.

The final point is I don't like to be pointed as a thief or a no-rule-follower just because I buy armors from ebay, when all the 501 was born in this way.

[riveting]

(and possibly the only positive use I can think of for this forum.)

taken in isolation from your first post! appologies I dont like to use longwinded quotes so just used the very little meat on the bone.

 

sorry to hear you get so little from the forum, I thought there was already heaps of great advise & information amongst the old threads in here on this very topic?. Enough to well educate the prospective buyer or window shoper? & that the only thing an individual needed extra to bring to the party aside from that informed descision was knowing the direction where their moral compass points!

just my 2cent

Edited August 9, 2010 by riveting

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I am very glad that our detachment leader has seen fit to "open source" the cloak and dagger information of the past.

 

it gives a great balance to new troopers to make a clear and educated decision.

 

recasters are eliminated at some point by transparency of information.