Dutch Weapon Law Restrictions

[Blaze]

Federal laws mandate for a 6mm -minimum- orange tip on the barrel of any imitation or toy gun. This part must be fixed to the barrel. Replicas or toy guns can't be imported, selled or traded without this orange tip.

In California it's a crime to remove such device.

Conventions won't let you get in with a prop gun without this orange tip.

Now, I've heard of people using removable tips. I don't know what could happen if you, for example, display publicly a blaster without the orange tip. And of course, it's not the same waving a blaster without the armor in a store than parading in full armor on an organized event.

In any case you'll have to check with your local authority.

That's good to know.

[carbonitekid]

Seriously, why did you contact the authorities in the first place? You should have just hoped they would look the other way - by contacting them and making them aware of it you may force them to act on something they wouldn't bother with otherwise.

 

Why try to over-complicate things?

 

 

The damage it would seem has been done:

 

http://www.omroepbrabant.nl/?news/12353685...ers+in+Erp.aspx

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/provinc...eslag_geno.html

http://indebuurt.trouw.nl/n977565-ruimtema..._inleveren.html

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/localitem/2...apens_in_beslag

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/4777344..._genomen__.html

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/articl...kinderevenement

http://www.deomroeper.nl/news/?p=1935

http://www.depers.nl/binnenland/334986/Sta...-nepwapens.html

 

For those who cannot read the links, the Dutch garrison was raided at an event on the 7th and all blasters confiscated and statements taken.

 

This resulted from "a prospective member sending an email to police asking about the use of replicas at events and including links to the Dutch garrison website. "

 

I do hope this was not coz of you Vincent mate.

[synaptyx]

Disgusting and pathetic knee-jerk reaction on the part of the Duch police and government policy.

 

Make 'em have orange tips if you must, but ffs, they're TOYS and the guys are costuming. Do they expect someone dressed as a TK to rob a bank? Get a fracking grip on reality you gov-tards!

 

Police said Sunday during an event for children in the Brabant Erp eight toy weapons seized. De speelgoedgeweren waren zwart gespoten, waardoor ze niet meer van echt te onderscheiden waren, meldt de politie. The toy guns were painted black, so they no longer really be detected, notify the police.

 

De nepwapens werden tijdens Kidsday gebruikt door een groep die verkleed was als stormtroopers uit Star Wars. The nepwapens during Kidsday were used by a group dressed as storm troopers from Star Wars. De politie was minder gecharmeerd van de act en nam de wapens in beslag. The police were less enamored of the act and took the weapons seized. De toneelspelers zijn verhoord. The actors are heard. Ze verklaarden dat ze de wapens hadden gekocht bij een speelgoedwinkel. Via internet hadden ze een speciaal setje erbij gekocht en op het speelgoedwapen gemonteerd, en het geheel vervolgens zwart gespoten. She explained that she had bought the weapons at a toy store. The Internet had a special set be purchased and mounted on the toy gun, and then all painted black.

 

Volgens de politie lijken de speelgoedwapen dusdanig op echte wapens, dat ze voor verkeerde doeleinden gebruikt kunnen. The toy gun so the police seem to real weapons, they can be used for malevolent purposes. Namaakwapens zijn verboden in Nederland. Imitation weapons are banned in the Netherlands. Justitie moet beslissen of de artiesten worden vervolgd. Justice must decide whether the artists be prosecuted.

[Caomhanach[501st]]

If you have the Google task bar you can translate it into pigeon english, enough to figure it out...

 

This is pathetic on the part of the dutch police...

[carbonitekid]

If you have the Google task bar you can translate it into pigeon english, enough to figure it out...

 

This is pathetic on the part of the dutch police...

 

 

And bloody stupidity of a member here!!

[synaptyx]

Allright Matt, we know how you feel, mate. I'd be bloody well pissed off if that happened to the UKG and I am pissed off that it happened to the DG. No more personal attacks or this thread is locked. I suggest moving the discussion along more helpful lines. What can we do to help our Dutch brothers?

[Billhag]

...What the f......

 

Well thank God that our 'Boys in blue' are a bit more reasonable and cut us a little slack when it comes to tropping with blasters.

I wouldn't be an happy bunny if they tried to take mine away, I can tell ya

[carbonitekid]

Allright Matt, we know how you feel, mate. I'd be bloody well pissed off if that happened to the UKG and I am pissed off that it happened to the DG. No more personal attacks or this thread is locked. I suggest moving the discussion along more helpful lines. What can we do to help our Dutch brothers?

Ok mate, no more personal attacks, agreed.

 

Apologies to the majority who may have been offended.

[TxRadio]

O this is terrible. I'm most concerned about any potential prosecutions. I wonder if letter-writing might help the authorities understand the charitable nature of the organizaton and if that might help our brothers?

[synaptyx]

Ok mate, no more personal attacks, agreed.

 

Apologies to the majority who may have been offended.

Thanks Matt.

[TKDUEUNO]

Let's hope that this doesn't lead to bad consequences for the 501st and for us in other countries...

[Shin Yodama]

Organise a protest, march on the Tweede Kamer in armour (not with weapons obviously, but carrying placards), hire a Lawyer and fight a test case. Allow common sense to re-establish. Don't go down without a fight.

[Dmian]

Unluckily, this kind of laws come from very specific political decisions taken by authorities to tackle specific problems.

Probably the raise in cases of robbery with replicas lead to the dutch authorities to pass this law forbidding all replicas.

 

The only thing that the dutch guys can do is show how stupid this law is by showing how ridiculous it is, as it's probably easier to get and carry a real weapon than carrying a replica. So maybe they can try to get a licence to carry a civil gun and show how they can carry a real weapon but not a replica (if that's the case)

 

They can also send a letter to the appropiate authority in the name of the Garrison clearing the Legion and Garrison intentions and asking for a special permit for them and some police supervision while they are doing their duties.

 

And the best option: they can send letter to the papers, TVs, blogs, etc. to explain how stupid they are by not letting them carry their replicas on their missions and how they probably ruined the whole thing (including the damage done to the kids by shattering the illusion of them being real stormtroopers) by seizing their blasters in the middle of a mission.

 

That's it.

 

And as for Vincent, well, sonner or later this was going to happen, with or without Vincent's mail. If they went for those A-team performers it was just a matter of time before someone noticed the Dutch Garrison carrying replicas.

 

Edit: here's the info (in Dutch) about the weapons in the Netherlands:

<a href="http://www.justitie.nl/onderwerpen/criminaliteit/wapens/" target="_blank">http://www.justitie.nl/onderwerpen/criminaliteit/wapens/</a>

 

And specifically for replicas:

<a href="http://www.justitie.nl/onderwerpen/criminaliteit/wapens/nepwapens/" target="_blank">http://www.justitie.nl/onderwerpen/crimina...pens/nepwapens/</a>

[Dmian]

Let's hope that this doesn't lead to bad consequences for the 501st and for us in other countries...

Pablo, at least in Spain it's easier to get a real weapon or a deac than a replica. There's a big black market of weapons here. And deacs are treated as scrap metal, so pretty easy to get too. So no need to use replicas to commit crimes.

For example, I have not heard complaints from airosft guys here. And airsoft it's pretty popular in Spain (in fact, I've seen pictures of people with airsoft guns without orange tips here, but in the US that would be risky to do.)

Also policemen are not as jealous as dutch ones. And they are more amazed when they see the garrison than threatened by us.

Dutch laws are very strict about replicas, but that's not the case in all EU countries. It really depends on local laws (the same is true for different states in the US.)

 

This is from this website (it may be a bit old, so better check up-to-date information):

Non sono né armi né strumenti, ma oggetti qualsiasi, le armi a salve, i giocattoli a forma di arma, le riproduzioni inerti di armi, le armi disattivate nelle parti essenziali, i giocattoli softair con potenza non superiore ad un Joule; questi oggetti sono liberi del tutto; se confondibili con armi vere, devono essere messi in commercio con un tappo o cerchio rosso sulla bocca della canna, ma l’acquirente può eliminarlo senza conseguenze, purché non usi l’oggetto per commettere reati (minacce, rapina). Le armi a salve devono avere la canna parzialmente otturata, in modo da non poter proiettare corpi solidi (è obbligo solo del produttore); non devono recare un tromboncino lanciarazzi.

[RevLoki[TK]]

And as for Vincent, well, sonner or later this was going to happen, with or without Vincent's mail. If they went for those A-team performers it was just a matter of time before someone noticed the Dutch Garrison carrying replicas.

 

Q.E.D. Shoot the messenger all you want. But attacking the guy isn't going to make the situation any better and as Damian stated, it was probably only a matter of time before it became an issue. If you recall a while back, one of our Australian members had their blaster confiscated.

 

Luckily here in the U.S. we're extremely lucky to have common sense replica laws and police officers that know how to use that common sense to say "Hey, it's a costuming club. Leave them alone." Here in Jacksonville, the police usually take the time to admire the work we put into our blasters. We have officers in our garrison, and everything's cool.

[Dargas[501st]]

i agree, attacking vincent is not going to do anything, he was trying to operate withing the laws of his country.

 

last night while trooping i thought about this... what about if they can come up with a prop that looks like a blaster inside the holster but in reality there no blaster?

 

only the butt, the grip and sight and the rest of the prop is the holster? I don't know... made in rubber or something? they won't be able to hold anything in their hands but at least the'll look complete... sort of

[synaptyx]

It's rather unfortunate for him that he'll probably never be accepted into his local garrison.

[Dmian]

It's rather unfortunate for him that he'll probably never be accepted into his local garrison.

Probably. He can still apply for another garrison. The Belgian Garrison might be a wise choice.

[Blaze]

Probably. He can still apply for another garrison. The Belgian Garrison might be a wise choice.

Why wouldn't he be accepted? :S

[pandatrooper[TK]]

I read about this on some other forums too.

 

In Canada, airsoft is technically a restricted item (unless you go to Walmart and buy a clear one with an orange tip) but basically, if it's black and looks a lot like a real gun, you're going to have issues.

 

I play paintball too, and many paintball "markers" are looking more and more like real guns. I know a shop owner who has had issues in the past with importing and stocking realistic looking replicas that are fine to buy and own in the USA, but not in Canada.

 

In Canada, we've had a fair share of issues with replicas being used in crimes. Eg: gangsters using airsoft guns in robberies, assaults, etc.. There have even been "drive by shootings" or instances of kids bringing them to school, and many times, the SWAT team or whatever is called out to deal with the situation.

 

Might be good to check with organizers of the events and check to see if it's OK. I know if I was trooping and visiting some kids in a hospital or something, I'm not sure if you need a blaster anyways?

[Amish Trooper]

I think Vincent did what he felt was right. He doesn't set the laws and only wanted to follow them. If you ask me I think he made a perfectly clear and good argument. He pointed out a flaw in there law. Does it suck for the clog wearing freaks yes ( I lived there for 4 years) but I think Vincent took the right steps.

[Sgt Steve]

I read about this on some other forums too.

 

In Canada, airsoft is technically a restricted item (unless you go to Walmart and buy a clear one with an orange tip) but basically, if it's black and looks a lot like a real gun, you're going to have issues.

 

I play paintball too, and many paintball "markers" are looking more and more like real guns. I know a shop owner who has had issues in the past with importing and stocking realistic looking replicas that are fine to buy and own in the USA, but not in Canada.

 

In Canada, we've had a fair share of issues with replicas being used in crimes. Eg: gangsters using airsoft guns in robberies, assaults, etc.. There have even been "drive by shootings" or instances of kids bringing them to school, and many times, the SWAT team or whatever is called out to deal with the situation.

 

Might be good to check with organizers of the events and check to see if it's OK. I know if I was trooping and visiting some kids in a hospital or something, I'm not sure if you need a blaster anyways?

The blaster is as much a part of the "Trooper" costume as the bucket. Two year's ago when I was working on my first FX kit, I had a first fitting at a friend's place to see if I got it right, parts worked, snap's held ect, but didn't have a blaster for the holster yet. My friend's son had one look and called his pal's over to see his mom's new boy-toy...a trooper! , When about 5 kid's blasted me with question's, the first one was, "Where is the blaster?, your not a real trooper, trooper's have blaster's"! You bet I'll have a blaster if I do a hospital troop, and I'll have my I.D. in a old military wallet under my chest plate. It will have my decoration's rubber banded to the other side! If you are part of an organized event and it's well known that "SW Trooper's" will be part of it, and the blaster has a red plug at the business end of the prop, it should be ok. It is legal to have "prop" or "replica" weapon's in Canada still, and as a still serving soldier of this fine nation, I for one will not give up my toy gun!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

FWIW, historically the blasters have never been required elements of approval, aside from Sith Lords. There is discussion in Legion Council to allow waivers for folks who live in countries such as this.

[Murray1134[501st]]

I posted something similar to this on the Legion forums, but I wanted to post something here too.

 

Frankly, I'm rather upset and disappointed by how much this debate has turned into a personal attack. Just speaking for myself, I know if I had moved to the area or whatnot, I might have gone through similar steps to see what exactly the local firearm laws were and to seek an exception based on precedent for the Legion members.

 

Now, were some mistakes made? Probably, but "To err is to be human, forgiveness divine"

 

It's a terrible situation, but to be honest, it was inevitable. The local members knew the laws and knew that they were openly breaking them. All it would have taken was one phone call from an overly nervous or paranoid person, and they would've been in the same situation.

[Dargas[501st]]

I have to agree, if his garrison does not accept him out of this I think the issue could be sent to the council.

 

there is no rule whatsoever that restricts a member joining a garrison because of a situation like this, he did what was legally correct and vincent or not the law would have noticed sooner or later.

 

they SHOULD accept him in their ranks, in reality he did noting wrong as oppossed to the other troopers who openly displayed their blasters in a country where that is expressively forbidden by law.

 

what happened was infortunate but excluding him off the garrison is not the right course of action.

 

that's my opinion at least.