CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 4 Author Report Posted June 4 (edited) As I am essentially done with the limbs and torso, I’m starting to go in too many directions about all the things that remain, picking at the belt and helmet for instance, but have wanted to keep this build thread more ordered and focused. The punch list for what I’ve done so far is: For the thermal detonator, I still need to bend the clips on the back side. But having followed ukswrath’s guide, I’m finding that the part that goes under the belt is 4” long, which seems too long. Even after the bend, they seem too long. Not sure whether I should trim them so they don’t stick out from underneath the belt (as stated in the CRL). Fit the shoulder bridges. I’m still having trouble with this. I don’t have the right curve yet, and with the armor on, I will need to have a second person help me with fitting and reshaping. Attach elastic to the shoulder straps to hold down the backs of the shoulder bridges. Figure out how to hold up the thighs. I’ve seen several posts on this. I’ve also seen something about ‘X’-style suspenders, but I’m not sure if those are meant to hold up the thighs, the torso, or both. Put in the snaps on the cod and butt plate. Put in the “Han” snap on the upper right of the ab plate. Cover the left side ab-to-kidney rivets on the inside with silicone or something equally smoothing. Make some ABS paste and clean up the back bottom of the right thigh. Having trouble finding such a small amount of acetone, since they sell them in quarts/liters at my hardware store. Paint tops of all rivets. So I guess I use the term “essentially done” quite loosely! Once I have a better path forward on this, I’ll want to post more questions about what remains. Edited June 4 by CloseTheBlastDoor 1 Quote
TKSpartan[Staff] Posted June 4 Report Posted June 4 For the thermal detonator, I still need to bend the clips on the back side. But having followed ukswrath’s guide, I’m finding that the part that goes under the belt is 4” long, which seems too long. Even after the bend, they seem too long. Not sure whether I should trim them so they don’t stick out from underneath the belt (as stated in the CRL). Once you have asembled the TD, you can be sure where and haw much to trim. Fit the shoulder bridges. I’m still having trouble with this. I don’t have the right curve yet, and with the armor on, I will need to have a second person help me with fitting and reshaping. A hot water bath could be helpful to reshape the shoulder bridges Figure out how to hold up the thighs. I’ve seen several posts on this. I’ve also seen something about ‘X’-style suspenders, but I’m not sure if those are meant to hold up the thighs, the torso, or both. Bellow thread shows both systems. Keep up the great work Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 4 Report Posted June 4 For the thermal detonator, I still need to bend the clips on the back side. But having followed ukswrath’s guide, I’m finding that the part that goes under the belt is 4” long, which seems too long. Even after the bend, they seem too long. Not sure whether I should trim them so they don’t stick out from underneath the belt (as stated in the CRL). Normally they are trimmed so they don't stick out under the belt Fit the shoulder bridges. I’m still having trouble with this. I don’t have the right curve yet, and with the armor on, I will need to have a second person help me with fitting and reshaping. I used a box and draped the armor over so I could get a good fit with the shoulder bridges, a little heat helps Attach elastic to the shoulder straps to hold down the backs of the shoulder bridges. Ideally this strap should be 1/4 inch (5 mm) wide, and connect over the tab at the top of the back armor. The bridge should also lay flush against the back. Figure out how to hold up the thighs. I’ve seen several posts on this. I’ve also seen something about ‘X’-style suspenders, but I’m not sure if those are meant to hold up the thighs, the torso, or both. A belt with elastic looped over can be enough, you only really want to see one strap on the front, X type Having braces can also stop them drooping Make some ABS paste and clean up the back bottom of the right thigh. Having trouble finding such a small amount of acetone, since they sell them in quarts/liters at my hardware store. Some nail varnish removes work Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 5 Author Report Posted June 5 Thanks guys! In getting this far, it’s easy to get caught up in what needs to be done next, but I have to say that it’s a special feeling to see things coming together like in the photo from my previous post. I grew up in Los Angeles, and as a little kid was one of the fortunate ones to wait in a line circling the entire block at Mann’s Chinese Theater to see ANH. I must have seen it maybe 40 or 50 times in the theater! My dream from then on was to be a stormtrooper, and that’s why I’m here! So, yes, I’m definitely motivated! You all have been fantastic! I did a loose fit of the TD, and it definitely sticks out of the bottom of the belt: Time to trim that, and get the clips straightened out a bit too. Looking at the shoulder strapping, I think they are overall too long. Maybe that’s my real problem. I cinched them up, and it looks like the straps might go over better. So I’ll redo the straps, approximately 1” to 1.25” shorter than they are, and see whether it’s good. I’ll be sure to have the water bath ready. Then I can get those ¼” elastics over the backs. For holding up the thighs, I like the idea of having them separately supported rather than putting yet more weight on the torso, which to me seems a bit heavy already. So I’ll opt for the leather belt and 2” wide elastic loops. For the ABS paste, I saw a post about Sugru that looks like it would fit the bill. For the cod, I trimmed the split rivet down, drilled a 9/64” hole, and got that in with a bit of hammering. It seems like what snap goes on the inside doesn’t matter, since it’s not required to be functional, and I’ve seen comments about either using the female line 24, or the male “Levi’s-type” small stud, or what I did here, the line 24 male. From the hammering I might have left a small mark on the outer part of the cod, but not too noticeable. For the two butt snaps, I drilled two 5/32” holes. One was ⅝” in from the end, and the other 1-⅜” in, per ukswrath’s build here: I’ll want to be careful about setting those in! Not done yet. Oh yeah, and time for The Acolyte!!!!! 2 Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 It looks as if the WTF backplate sits up a little higher than the front, recent EIB approval And here, not as smooth a transition than other makes. 2 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 7 Author Report Posted June 7 On 6/5/2024 at 3:29 PM, gmrhodes13 said: It looks as if the WTF backplate sits up a little higher than the front, recent EIB approval Sorry I didn't see this earlier... this is good info. Looks like there is a sharper bend downward on the bridges at the backplate too. Still fiddling with this! 1 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 17 Author Report Posted June 17 Had some more vacation, and unfortunately some more hand pain. But progress was still made! Punch list update: For the thermal detonator, I still need to bend the clips on the back side. But having followed ukswrath’s guide, I’m finding that the part that goes under the belt is 4” long, which seems too long. Even after the bend, they seem too long. Not sure whether I should clip them so they don’t stick out from under (as stated in the CRL). Trimmed and looks good! But I've seen some posts where the line of buttons should face towards the back instead of the top - true? Fit the shoulder bridges. I’m still having trouble with this. I don’t have the right curve yet, and with the armor on, I will need to have a second person help me with fitting and reshaping. I didn’t find a suitable box to fit the chest and back plates over, so with the armor on, I went back and forth between the mirror and the stove on this one. It’s much closer now, but still might need some adjustments. Looks like some twisting is required, too. How flat should they sit on the back side of the armor? Attach elastic to the shoulder straps to hold down the backs of the shoulder bridges. I remade the shoulder straps, and decided to secure the ¼” elastic inside the creases of the 2” white strapping. This worked out pretty well. Overall, the straps are much shorter than before, and seem to fit OK. Then I added the double snaps for the limb attachments, biased towards the front. Figure out how to hold up the thighs. I’ve seen several posts on this. I’ve also seen something about ‘X’-style suspenders, but I’m not sure if those are meant to hold up the thighs, the torso, or both. I ordered a leather belt and fashioned the loops as described in other posts. We’ll see how this holds up. Put in the snaps on the cod and butt plate. Done (as posted previously) Put in the “Han” snap on the upper right of the ab plate. I've seen that this should be a male snap. Does it really face inward? I've seen conflicting measurements, too. Some say 20mm in from the left, 20mm down. Others say 10mm in from the left. Cover the left side ab-to-kidney rivets on the inside with silicone or something equally smoothing. Done! Make some ABS paste and clean up the back bottom of the right thigh. Having trouble finding such a small amount of acetone, since they sell them in quarts/liters at my hardware store. Going with Sugru. Paint tops of all rivets. Turns out that the paint I ordered, even though labeled Testors 1145TT gloss white, was in fact silver! Needing to re-order. Testors seems harder and harder to find since Rust-oleum seems to have purchased the company. Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 17 Report Posted June 17 Trimmed and looks good! But I've seen some posts where the line of buttons should face towards the back instead of the top - true? Should face backwards so you can see the O detail Attach elastic to the shoulder straps to hold down the backs of the shoulder bridges. I remade the shoulder straps, and decided to secure the ¼” elastic inside the creases of the 2” white strapping. This worked out pretty well. Overall, the straps are much shorter than before, and seem to fit OK. Then I added the double snaps for the limb attachments, biased towards the front. You may find elastic is better for the straps especially when dressing, some times you need a little stretch, see how you go Figure out how to hold up the thighs. I’ve seen several posts on this. I’ve also seen something about ‘X’-style suspenders, but I’m not sure if those are meant to hold up the thighs, the torso, or both. I ordered a leather belt and fashioned the loops as described in other posts. We’ll see how this holds up. Torso holds up with your shoulder straps, all the body armor will "clamshell" around you. Only need one loop for the thighs I use snaps to attach but here's one that's glued Fit the shoulder bridges. I’m still having trouble with this. I don’t have the right curve yet, and with the armor on, I will need to have a second person help me with fitting and reshaping. I didn’t find a suitable box to fit the chest and back plates over, so with the armor on, I went back and forth between the mirror and the stove on this one. It’s much closer now, but still might need some adjustments. Looks like some twisting is required, too. How flat should they sit on the back side of the armor? They should lay flat, elastic also helps, sometimes they need a twist too Put in the snaps on the cod and butt plate. Done (as posted previously) Put in the “Han” snap on the upper right of the ab plate. I've seen that this should be a male snap. Does it really face inward? I've seen conflicting measurements, too. Some say 20mm in from the left, 20mm down. Others say 10mm in from the left. Yes and approximately. You can compare with some EIB or Centurion applications to see what has been approved. Sometimes referred to as the "Han" snap, for Level 3 a single male snap on the top right corner of the ab plate is present. Note in the photos that it is the bottom of the snap that faces outward and is not painted. This is also sometimes referred to as the "Han" snap. Cover the left side ab-to-kidney rivets on the inside with silicone or something equally smoothing. Done! Make some ABS paste and clean up the back bottom of the right thigh. Having trouble finding such a small amount of acetone, since they sell them in quarts/liters at my hardware store. Going with Sugru. Nail varnish remover can work (we don't have it as strong down here) Paint tops of all rivets. Turns out that the paint I ordered, even though labeled Testors 1145TT gloss white, was in fact silver! Needing to re-order. Testors seems harder and harder to find since Rust-oleum seems to have purchased the company. I use spray enamel paint, spray some in the cap and let to thicken, as long as it's close to the white of the armor Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 18 Author Report Posted June 18 2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said: You may find elastic is better for the straps especially when dressing, some times you need a little stretch, see how you go Yes, what I mentioned as "2" white strapping" is indeed elastic. 2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said: Nail varnish remover can work (we don't have it as strong down here) Yeah, I'm not sure if it's strong enough here, either. Sugru is more expensive than I thought, so maybe I'll just try the remover and see what happens! I also found this DIY Sugru, called OOGOO: https://www.instructables.com/How-To-Make-Your-Own-Sugru-Substitute/ 2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said: Note in the photos that it is the bottom of the snap that faces outward and is not painted. The first set of snaps I got from Amazon (see photo below, left) look like those snaps, but every subsequent package I ordered (and there are LOTS because I kept screwing them up ) had ones that look quite different (right side of photo). Does it matter? As always, thank you for your excellent guidance! Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 19 Author Report Posted June 19 OK, a little self-contained post about the gloves. I could not really figure out how to reasonably add the ABS hand guards that came with the WTF kit to the gloves, so I decided to get a set of latex-like ones. I got a nice well-made set from one of the various vendors. But a word of advice, following the instructions on the envelope didn’t work for me: The guards peeled right off! I then contacted the vendor, and he advised that I use gel CA glue instead. This is what I used, and it worked like a charm: I aligned the hand guards using a few reference photos I had seen, and glued them at one end first to make sure positioning was right, then the rest later after that had set. All done! Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 19 Report Posted June 19 Can depend on the hand guard itself or the gloves, I've had to use different types of adhesive in the past, CA glue, Super glue, E6000 and even silicon, using a small test area is best. Hopefully they stay held, then can come off a little with movement of trooping. Your left hand glove looks a little lower than the right, that could be the image though. 1 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 19 Author Report Posted June 19 Yes, I do hope that they stay in place. The CA glue seems pretty strong. E6000 would have been nice in case I had to adjust them. I think the left and right plates are pretty even, although the left glove itself is "rolled" to the right a bit more. Looks even when they're on, though, so hopefully it's all good. 1 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 20 Author Report Posted June 20 Another punch list update: 1. TD angle adjusted by unrolling the clips a bit, but I’m hoping that now the tops of the clips don’t stick out too much. This is as head-on of a shot as I could get. The “O” detail is seen, but not by a lot. I hope it’s enough. I suspect that the original measurements for the clip holes and bend locations are not right for the diameter of PVC tubing that I had. 4. Thigh suspension DONE, although some vertical adjustment will be necessary: 6. Han snap DONE. 9. Rivet painting: I’m going to defer all painting until towards the end. Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 20 Report Posted June 20 1 hour ago, CloseTheBlastDoor said: I suspect that the original measurements for the clip holes and bend locations are not right for the diameter of PVC tubing that I had. Correct a few makers use smaller caps so pipe must be smaller too (WTF, ATA and I think AP), it does make them look a little off with length and gaps, but normally no issues having them approved 1 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 20 Author Report Posted June 20 I might start working on the belt next. Wondering what is the most comprehensive post on doing that from start to finish, as I've been confused by a few of them. I have all the pieces, and some are trimmed. Not even sure if I got the right snaps. I have seen all of the Billgrams. Speaking of Billgrams, it looks like there is a discrepancy between horizontally how close the holster sits to the plastic part of the belt. One gram says 1-3/4", and the other says 3/4". Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 20 Report Posted June 20 8 minutes ago, CloseTheBlastDoor said: I might start working on the belt next. Wondering what is the most comprehensive post on doing that from start to finish, as I've been confused by a few of them. I have all the pieces, and some are trimmed. Not even sure if I got the right snaps. I have seen all of the Billgrams. Speaking of Billgrams, it looks like there is a discrepancy between horizontally how close the holster sits to the plastic part of the belt. One gram says 1-3/4", and the other says 3/4". Get ready, info overload The rivets you have are fine to use on the holster, hopefully they are not the short post type. If the posts are long enough you could add male snap on the back of the belt and female on the holster, so you can remove between troops (note 4 rivet placement is only for HERO, don't make that mistake ) Different attachments There are variants on holster placement latest info in this thread Bending the belt helps it to stop springing off when knocked, snaps don't like to be on an angle Bending the ABS Belt by gazmosis, Boba_Skywalker3 Great how to by Tony Belt Assembly by ukswrath If you need to make a fabric belt https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/665-howto-a-guide-to-making-a-canvas-belt/ I use regular snaps behind the button covers to fabric belt, and also from fabric belt to armor Don't take note of the center snap on the abdomen, I thought this would stop it slipping but really didn't need it, I was oh so young and dumb . You can add velcro here if you find it drops at the middle. The top of the ABS belt shall sit at or just above the bottom of the central and vertical ab button panels. A slight overlap is suggested, but not required. The bottom of the canvas belt should ideally sit above the bottom of the kidney plate and not overlap the kidney/posterior plate connection. Belt button cover reference For Level 3, the corners of the plastic ammo belt shall be trimmed at a 45 degree angle that meets the outer edge of the cloth belt. For Level 3, Drop boxes are vertically aligned with the end of the ammo belt with minimal gap between belt and box. For Level 3**, Drop boxes must have full inner drop boxes to close the back. I will highlight a few important details From the CRL: Belt Belt face is made of plastic (TK ammo belt). The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” (70 mm) to 3.25”(83 mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white. The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): There shall be three square buttons, one centered in the middle and one on each end of the plastic ammo belt.. OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable): Drop boxes must have full inner drop boxes to close the back. Flat covers are not allowed. Drop boxes are vertically aligned with the end of the ammo belt with minimal gap between belt and box. The corners of the plastic ammo belt shall be trimmed at a 45 degree angle that that meets the outer edge of the cloth belt. The top of the ABS ammo belt should sit at or just above the bottom of the central and vertical abdomen button panels. Canvas belt can not contain patches of any sort. Canvas belt must be firm / sturdy in appearance. No creasing or sagging 2 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 20 Author Report Posted June 20 OMG I am indeed overloaded! I will have more questions! Thank you! 1 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 25 Author Report Posted June 25 (edited) OK, here goes the belt! Some of this stuff I did a while ago, but wanted to keep this thread organized. PART I TL;DR: Three questions here: My drop box widths seem smaller than reference photos. I need to figure out what is the correct alignment. Did I blow it for future Centurion approval by trimming too much off the corners of the plastic belt? Needing confirmation of where to trim the three plastic belt buttons. Drop box trimming: Trimming drop boxes using as a guide a block of wood that I thinned to 12mm for the insides, and another block 15mm thick for the outsides (only 12mm shown): Much more trimming and fitting to get to this: Cut the plastic belt ends: Unfortunately I did this before I received the canvas belt. At the specified ½”, I think I cut too much off the corners, as they don’t meet the canvas belt edges dead on: I have a little bit more play to trim the ends, since they are a bit proud of the 1.5”: But I don’t know if this will be enough, and it looks like it could dash my hopes of Centurion if I ever get there. Sigh. Drop box alignment: It seems like these drop boxes are not as wide as what I see in the reference photos, if they are indeed needing to be aligned to the ends of the plastic belt: Ukswrath reference: Mine. Align here? Or maybe here? Canvas-to-plastic belt snaps (3 sets): Canvas side: Using male Line 24 snaps. Punch hole size ideally is 4.5mm, but my largest punch is 4mm. Made it work. Used a pop rivet. Male snaps are on the front side of the belt. To ensure alignment, I’m doing only this middle male snap at first, then I will drill all three holes on the plastic, put in the middle female snap, connect that, bend the assembly around the ab plate, and transfer the left and right plastic holes to pencil marks on the canvas. Since there is a bend, the arc of the plastic will be slightly longer than that of the canvas. Probably washes out in the end, though, since I can only be so accurate. BTW I’m really loving the pop rivet method. It’s so much easier than fighting the snap posts, so many of which I’ve bent and driven in crooked! But since on the plastic side there’s not a lot of meat on the rivet cap (pop or split-type), and the rivet is too short, I had to put the female snaps in using the traditional method. Plastic side: Using female Line 24 snaps. Snap caps face out. Assembled! Buttons: Shall I trim to this line? Then just a blob of E6000? Edited June 25 by CloseTheBlastDoor Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 For Level 3, the corners of the plastic ammo belt shall be trimmed at a 45 degree angle that meets the outer edge of the cloth belt. Just trim the ends slightly so the corners meet with the fabric belt, correct position for drop boxes, yes different makes are differently sized, not an issue. Also take note of the first picture posted, notice the rivets on the plastic belt ends aren't right in the middle of that area so you don't have to be mm perfect there is no measurement to abide by Belt button cover reference Only raised area is the circle One thing to also take note of when fitting the belt is once worn it can ride up on the back because of the angle of the kidney, which makes the sides sit little bit of an angle, this can drop the front of the plastic belt. 2 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted June 30 Author Report Posted June 30 PART II Canvas-to-ab snaps (2 sets): Per drawing, carefully mark locations of male Line 24 snaps on ab plate (forgot photos here). Assemble plastic belt to canvas belt. Position as recommended across ab plate. Transfer ab plate snap locations to canvas. Punch holes in canvas for female Line 24 snaps. Drop box elastic and attachment: Used ⅛” diameter by ¼” length pop rivets on the backs of the drop boxes. The first one really puckered the inside of the inner box, so I added a washer on the other one. Again, forgot to take photos. This will be a day long not remembered. Also trimmed back the ends of the plastic belt to get it to align with the canvas. Here is what I have, with the elastic taped on the back just so I can get the drop boxes in alignment. I will need to figure out how to secure the elastic this way. Seems like just the back portion of the elastic can be secured, and the elastic that is in between the plastic and canvas will just comply. I recall that ukswrath used E6000 for this, so maybe I'll just do that. Holster attachment: I like the method of being able to detach the holster, so am following the recommended method. Some preliminary test fitting brings up some questions, though: The holster is not the specified 4-½” between straps, it’s more like 4”. Is that OK? It’s from Imperial Issue, so there shouldn’t be a problem. I am ¾” away from the plastic belt, because if I move the holster over another inch, it is in the Velcro zone. My belt is meant for 37” around the armor, so it’s on the short side of what is available. Is keeping the holster at ¾” away OK? Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted June 30 Report Posted June 30 1 hour ago, CloseTheBlastDoor said: I will need to figure out how to secure the elastic this way. Seems like just the back portion of the elastic can be secured, and the elastic that is in between the plastic and canvas will just comply. I recall that ukswrath used E6000 for this, so maybe I'll just do that. The holster is not the specified 4-½” between straps, it’s more like 4”. Is that OK? It’s from Imperial Issue, so there shouldn’t be a problem. I am ¾” away from the plastic belt, because if I move the holster over another inch, it is in the Velcro zone. My belt is meant for 37” around the armor, so it’s on the short side of what is available. Is keeping the holster at ¾” away OK? Yes a couple of dabs of E6000 is all you need to keep the drop box elastic in place. 4 1/2" is just an approximate size you should have no issues with 4" between the straps. Make sure you position the front holster strap between 2cm - 4.5cm away from the plastic belt end. 2 Quote
CloseTheBlastDoor[TK] Posted July 1 Author Report Posted July 1 (edited) OK, thanks! Looks like when I'm 2cm away, the far strap overlaps the Velcro just a tad. But since it's the underside, doesn't seem like an issue at all. Never mind the crooked belt cap, it's not glued on yet! Edited July 2 by CloseTheBlastDoor 1 Quote
gmrhodes13[Staff] Posted July 1 Report Posted July 1 1 hour ago, CloseTheBlastDoor said: OK, thanks! Looks like when I'm 2mm away, the far strap overlaps the Velcro just a tad. But since it's the underside, doesn't seem like an issue at all. Never mind the crooked belt cap, it's not glued on yet! See how it looks once worn and how much (if any) belt overlap you have showing past the detonator, normally any overlap is removed so you may need to trim the velcro. 1 Quote
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