Interested in joining the hobby but requiring some advice

[wp1945]

*Edited*

Hello, I've been lurking around the site for a few days and I feel as though now is the time to do something I've always wanted to do since watching ANH for the first time... become a stormtrooper! A few days ago I purchased an ABS stunt helmet kit from DA Props (formerly BFA) on Etsy and I am eager to receive it. I determined the helmet was a safe bet after seeing a video of the late CableGuy Dan putting one together but I am unsure if the armor provided by DA Props can get me to lvl 3. I searched the site for mentions of BFA/DA kits being used but the posts are a few years old and I'd like to be 100% sure I'm on the right track and nothing has changed. (After looking a bit harder I'm seeing some mixed reviews with some saying middle of the pack in terms of quality and others saying outstanding) I'm a stickler for details and known as a "stitch counter" in the reenacting world which will no doubt bleed over into this hobby as well. Below I will attach a few photos DA Props provides on Etsy for your approval. Some of the things that concern me with the little knowledge I've picked up are the shins being short and the chest plate possibly being too small and not meeting the shoulder bells. Maybe these are unfounded concerns and only an issue when it comes to fitting and dressing. I appreciate any help/advice greatly and look forward to making connections in this hobby.

Cheers 

Edited December 24, 2023 by wp1945

[Sly11[Admin]]

Hi William and welcome to our detachment.

Armour can vary a little based on how it is trimmed, but these look ok.

Shins aren't necessarily long on many kits, but if you want kit to do side by side comparisons with, have a look at some of the RS Prop build threads. Most of the parts are cast off an original suit they own.

If you are a stitch counter and fussy with the finer details, then they are a good starting point.

Generally, the chest piece also isn't as big as you may think.

Some kits were cast off the inside of the parts, other cast from the outside, so in that case may be slightly larger unless a maker does oversized parts for a larger trooper.

The actors in ANH were in general slim build and between 5'9"–6' tall.

Armour can be modified to fit larger builds, but does come to a point where longer limb parts may be required to fit a taller trooper. Research research research is the key from here on out.

 

Next is the colour of the ABS in your helmet vs buying a kit from a different maker. Sometimes they can be very different and in turn too noticeable. ABS colour can also change between batches, so it is easier to buy a set along with the helmet, so there isn't a discernible difference.

There really isn't such a thing as the ideal set of armour, but more to the point there is an ideal set for an individual based on budget, country of origin, size and how much lineage you want your kit to have back to an original screen used suit.

 

We can direct to towards makers based on a few pieces of information.

Your height and build are always the best starting points to get feedback from those of similar stature.

 

Most importantly, you will have heaps of fun on your new journey of discovery, and we are here to help along the way.

 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Welcome to the forums, William!  As a fellow "stitch counter" (I am so stealing that phrase, lol) I think it's great that you are aiming for Centurion right out of the box!

To my knowledge we have never had a kit from DA Props submitted for L3 approval, but you could be the first.  .

 

It will need some extra work on your part, as the requirements for L3 are pretty defined about certain items.  Not the biggest of deals by any means, as there are many tutorials on every issue you can imagine and we can help!

 

This issue is one we run across on occasion:

 

Note that the large ab-button box does not have an "edge" around it (pic 1) as seen in the reference images and is required for Centurion**  It may be the photo (#2), but it looks as if in it's untrimmed state it does not give you the option to have this.  The box can be glued on to a sheet of matching ABS, trimmed and the seam filled in with ABS paste.  It takes time, but I have seen it done quite successfully.

**  Plate does not overlap the edges of this area and shall show a definite straight cut edge around all sides.

                                                                                                                                                                    Reference images

                  

 

While you have the ABS paste handy, I would suggest filling in the dimples on the center of the TD end caps.      Also note that there are 6 bumps on their TD button panel as opposed to 7 on the originals.  The bumps are not a big issue, but the D.O.s may ask you to fill in the dimples.

                                                                                                                                                                              Screen used TD images

                       

 

One thing that does cause me a bit of concern is the top of the kidney plate.  In the images on their site the tops appear to have an inward curve in the center instead of being straight.  Not sure if this is from the casting process or what, but not the best of looks IMO.  If yours arrives this way it may be able to be heat-bended back.  Not the easiest of processes, but it can be done!

 

                          

 

As Andrew mentioned, there are no "perfect" kits.  All will require some modding, but some more than others, so it depends on how much extra work you want to put in to it.  Whichever armorer you choose, we can help get you to as close to screen accuracy as you want to be.  All ya' gotta do is ask!

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

58 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

To my knowledge we have never had a kit from DA Props submitted for L3 approval, but you could be the first.  .

There have been a few but none since #415 in 2018

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wp1945]

Thank you all very much for your time and advice! As I said, I have already purchased the ABS stunt helmet but I have plans to emulate CableGuy Dan by using the green/khaki base coat (he managed to color match) to give it the HDPE look. Hopefully this makes the ABS of the helmet and whatever armor set I decide on not a problem at the end of the day because the main coat will be spay painted like the originals. I'm 5'11 and 190 lbs which is something I'm actively working on. I'll do some more research on what is best for my body type but the main goal is to look as if I walked off set in 1976. After seeing the other details that might be a problem with getting a DA Prop to level 3 it might be best to steer clear or make the changes required while building the armor. RS seems to be a great choice but they only provide fully completed sets of armor at this time. I was hoping to give myself a project and build my own. I have a lot to think about but I'm very gracious for the advice provided and I can tell this is a great community!

Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk

[revlimiter[Staff]]

If you're worried about weight, you might check into AP (Authentic Props) armor. It's sized very generously in the midsection. And if you're painting the bucket anyway, no issues with using a different set of armor as you can paint the DA helmet to match. AP is also having a Boxing Day sale right now I believe. Check the sale forum. My own AP armor has almost achieved 100 troops and it's as strong as it was on day 1.

 

I'm blessed to be the actual size of a 70s stunt TK. My AP armor needed a decent bit of midsection trimming to make it fit my small frame. However, it was lovely that it came in a larger size vs many kits that require shimming to fit larger troopers. Much easier to trim some extra plastic than to shim and paste. It's also not difficult to achieve Centurion in AP armor.

 

No affiliation with AP, just a satisfied customer.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:07 AM, wp1945 said:

Thank you all very much for your time and advice! As I said, I have already purchased the ABS stunt helmet but I have plans to emulate CableGuy Dan by using the green/khaki base coat (he managed to color match) to give it the HDPE look. Hopefully this makes the ABS of the helmet and whatever armor set I decide on not a problem at the end of the day because the main coat will be spay painted like the originals. I'm 5'11 and 190 lbs which is something I'm actively working on. I'll do some more research on what is best for my body type but the main goal is to look as if I walked off set in 1976. After seeing the other details that might be a problem with getting a DA Prop to level 3 it might be best to steer clear or make the changes required while building the armor. RS seems to be a great choice but they only provide fully completed sets of armor at this time. I was hoping to give myself a project and build my own. I have a lot to think about but I'm very gracious for the advice provided and I can tell this is a great community!

 

Some additional info here if it helps with your research.

 

It looks like there have been 11 or so DA suits that have passed at L2 historically. Feel free to use the Search function to check out their threads (sorry I can't post the links with ease, and haven't completed all of the older threads in my database).

 

But it looks like we haven't had one pass at Centurion in the past 5 years (since @Xinx, whose thread may be worth reviewing if you go that route), so take that for what it's worth. I see that the majority of the 7 or so are also out of the EU, which may be the motivating factor in their purchase. Depending on where you're based, that may be a more important consideration with shipping/duties/etc. They absolutely can be built to L3 standard but wouldn't necessarily be my first choice for Centurion - especially if you plan to paint the helmet anyways and don't need to worry about matching your existing helmet ABS color to the armor.

 

 

RS has traditionally offered kits in addition to their "pro-built" series, but I did notice that the option has been removed from their website - which is pretty disappointing. Definitely build your own!

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

12 hours ago, TheRascalKing said:

RS has traditionally offered kits in addition to their "pro-built" series, but I did notice that the option has been removed from their website - which is pretty disappointing. Definitely build your own!

 

Wow, I was not aware that RS had removed the kit option!  As you mentioned, that is really a shame (for reasons I won't go into) and I agree 100% that it's better to build your own.

In looking over Xinx's L3 submission you can tell how much the CRLs have been updated over the years.. most of these items would not have passed in the present day:

 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

On 12/24/2023 at 12:07 PM, wp1945 said:

...at the end of the day because the main coat will be spay painted like the originals. I'm 5'11 and 190 lbs which is something I'm actively working on. I'll do some more research on what is best for my body type but the main goal is to look as if I walked off set in 1976.

 

One thing to think about is this...

Many (if not most) of the TKs in ANH had more of their fair share of "discrepancies" to put it mildly.  Missing tube stripes, loose armor pieces, gaffa tape (you get the idea).  There is a certain charm about these nuances, therefore we don't expect 100% perfection.  What Level 3 is about is having the "ideal" (first day on the job) TK.  All nice and shiny with everything in place and as it should be.  In a word, continuity.

 

Some folks worry about their size.  Yes, the actors in the film(s) were selected by their body type but here we don't worry about that.  TKs here come in all shapes and sizes, and as long as the costume fits to the wearer's scale and size anyone can become a shiny white representative of the Legion.

[wp1945]

23 hours ago, justjoseph63 said:

What Level 3 is about is having the "ideal" (first day on the job) TK.  All nice and shiny with everything in place and as it should be.  In a word, continuity.

So to be clear copying the small scuffs and chips seen on helmets and armor is not acceptable for Level 3? 

[Morgi[Staff]]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb wp1945:

So to be clear copying the small scuffs and chips seen on helmets and armor is not acceptable for Level 3? 

 

Depends on the type of scuffs. I wouldn't attempt to apply with tape on my armor, but if you're aiming for a slightly weathered appearance, have a look at T-Jay's L3 application or at my application -- both of us added a bit of weathering to our armors and got Centurion. Of course this is, however, no guarantee that this will still be possible in the future and there haven't been too many TKs with a slightly used look applying in the past. 

 

I do love me a bit of weathering, but in the end it all comes down to the DO's. And having tape, cracks, or missing parts is obviously not recommend for higher levels 

 

[wp1945]

3 hours ago, Morgi said:

 

I do love me a bit of weathering, but in the end it all comes down to the DO's. And having tape, cracks, or missing parts is obviously not recommend for higher levels 

I'm definitely avoiding any use of gaffer tape and I plan to have all of my parts but the small but noticeable black scuffs you can see on screen and smaller chips on the helmet are a look I plan to achieve. I know there is a fine line between too much and just enough! With all of that said I will consult DO's while I build my kit because I understand the need for continuity. 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

11 hours ago, wp1945 said:

So to be clear copying the small scuffs and chips seen on helmets and armor is not acceptable for Level 3? 

 

I think the key is replicating what was done INTENTIONALLY in the films, not exactly what was on screen. The scuffs were likely a result of wear and tear while filming, but Stormtroopers are intended to be clean and white in ANH, as opposed to say the ones running around the forest in ROTJ, or Remnants in Mando.

 

I totally dig the look (and black mascara applied with a blush brush is a great way to do it), but definitely don't go too hard if you want L3 with ANH armor. Or do it after.

Edited December 28, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Response from RS Props in regards to armor kits:

 

We will be looking at adding kits back to our website shortly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Take into account what your GML will consider approvable, you definitely want to reach out to him/her/them 

 

As to higher levels it's entirely up to the @Deployment Officer Team who will hopefully chime in soon.

 

Take note that this team may change at the end of February after legion elections and the next Deployment Officers may have a different point of view.

[wp1945]

Thanks again for everyone's help. RWA is the armor I am looking at purchasing now and after seeing members with Level 3 acceptances I am very excited. I have a lot to learn and I suppose I was too eager to start my journey to becoming a member of Vader's Fist. I'm glad I slowed down and didn't make any decisions I'd end up regretting. Thank you for your guidance! 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

22 hours ago, wp1945 said:

So to be clear copying the small scuffs and chips seen on helmets and armor is not acceptable for Level 3? 

 

I think Justin nailed it with this-  "I think the key is replicating what was done INTENTIONALLY in the films, not exactly what was on screen. The scuffs were likely a result of wear and tear while filming, but Stormtroopers are intended to be clean and white in ANH, as opposed to say the ones running around the forest..."

 

This is my take on it, so keep that in mind:

 

While Mr. Lucas broke ground in ANH by intentionally giving most of the props (spacecraft, etc.) and many of the costumes a "rough/used" appearance I don't think it was meant to apply to TKs.  These were Imperial soldiers living and working on the Death Star and were expected to look their "best".  As Justin mentioned, the cracks, scuffs and paint chips on the helmets were the result of the stunts (thus the name) the armor was subject to during filming and I personally do not believe they were intentional.  Because of this damage, for close-up shots (Han/Luke) white ABS versions (Hero) were created from white ABS which would not have the chips/cracks as seen in the painted HDPE ones.

While I applaud your goal of getting as close to 100% screen accuracy as possible (I wish more folks would) what I would suggest is to wait until you have completed Level 3 before adding the chips/scuffs to your bucket.  For the purposes of Centurion (and EI for that matter) the "just out of the academy" (clean and shiny) look is what counts. 

While many of the other armor types are actually expected and or required to have a rough/battle worn look, the ANH TK costumes are not.

What you choose to do with your bucket after reaching Centurion completely up to you    and I'd like to see the results!

 

[wp1945]

3 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

what I would suggest is to wait until you have completed Level 3 before adding the chips/scuffs to your bucket.  For the purposes of Centurion (and EI for that matter) the "just out of the academy" (clean and shiny) look is what counts. 

Then I shall wait until I have reached Level 3! It'll be my goal to reach something I can call "Level 4" now   

Thanks for the guidance! 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

1 hour ago, wp1945 said:

Then I shall wait until I have reached Level 3! It'll be my goal to reach something I can call "Level 4" now   

Thanks for the guidance! 

You know a higher level of accuracy has come up in conversations quite a few times in the past, along the lines of how MEPD do their level 3 program, this could be something that members could ask in the upcoming election Q&A's for detachment leaders in January/February 

[themaninthesuitcase[Admin]]

I can’t see where you are located, but based on your posts I am going to guess UK? If so please make sure you have signed up to the UK Garrison forum as well as we have a mandatory armourer program in place which will help you ensure there are no nasty surprises come clearance time.

 

RWA is a solid pick I troop with many who wear it. 

A bit of DA history from what I can remember. It’s been a while so I won’t go into huge detail incase I get it wrong. 
 

Andy was based in the south of the UK but moved to France around 4 years ago. 
 

He did do TKs but TIE pilots and helmet was probably his most popular products from what I saw being talked about on “the shed of glittering delights”. The helmet had a tell of a bump on one cheek tear. 
 

DA was never huge inside the legion for reasons I never worked out. He was a solid mid pack pick at a time those were rare here. He was however a lot more common in Europe and with non legion groups in the UK.  

[wp1945]

6 hours ago, themaninthesuitcase said:

I can’t see where you are located, but based on your posts I am going to guess UK?

I'm actually located in the southern United States. I've located my nearest garrison and will reach out to them soon. 

According to Andy's Etsy reviews the TIE pilot helmets are the most popular and I was very tempted to purchase his TK armor kit. However, RWA has a very similar price point but with less need for modification down the road from what I have seen. 

[wp1945]

12 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

You know a higher level of accuracy has come up in conversations quite a few times in the past, along the lines of how MEPD do their level 3 program, this could be something that members could ask in the upcoming election Q&A's for detachment leaders in January/February 

That's where I suppose I was mistaken. I browsed around the MEPD forum and noticed copying the TDs on screen down to the last patch of dirt was the goal for a lot of members. I figured that definition of screen accuracy was an option here but I totally get the current ruling for being clean as a TK. Hopefully I'm a member soon soI can broach the subject when the time comes. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by wp1945

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

2 hours ago, wp1945 said:

I'm actually located in the southern United States.

 

Can we inquire as to where?  Depending on your location I may be able to supply a few names who can help on a local level if needed.

[wp1945]

Just now, justjoseph63 said:

 

Can we inquire as to where?  Depending on your location I may be able to supply a few names who can help on a local level if needed.

Of course, I'm in Mississippi. 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Dang... one of the few southern states I don't know anyone in.    Reaching out/joining to introduce yourself sooner rather than later will help.  Many times Garrisons hold "Armor parties" where folks meet up to provide help to new builders.  I have a thread here which gives a little more info.  Keep in mind that some Garrisons require you to join before you are able to view upcoming activities such as these.

Another thing to do is once you join, volunteer to be a "handler" (an integral part of any troop) at an upcoming event.  This way you can meet some of the folks you will be trooping with once you get approved.