Glue?

[Shiri]

Hi everyone, I’m curious if any of you have any experience with oatey abs cement? I found a black version of it at Home Depot and did a test run with some scraps of abs and it seems to work well, but I haven’t seen anyone ever mention it in these forums which seems odd considering it is made for abs. I found that they do make a milky clear version which could be perfect for my needs on my denuo novo abs armor. I went to an armor party recently and some mentioned that ca glue worked but my understanding is that it is the same as superglue which can be brittle and crack. Plus I haven’t had the best experience with superglue. If the oatey abs cement isn’t good, is there something you would recommend?

 

Thanks!

 

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-special-medium-milky-clear-abs-cement--1604941293?filter=%7B%22name%22:%22producttype%22,%22value%22:%22ABS%20Cement%22%7D

 

 

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[FN1313[TK]]

Hi everyone, I’m curious if any of you have any experience with oatey abs cement? I found a black version of it at Home Depot and did a test run with some scraps of abs and it seems to work well, but I haven’t seen anyone ever mention it in these forums which seems odd considering it is made for abs. I found that they do make a milky clear version which could be perfect for my needs on my denuo novo abs armor. I went to an armor party recently and some mentioned that ca glue worked but my understanding is that it is the same as superglue which can be brittle and crack. Plus I haven’t had the best experience with superglue. If the oatey abs cement isn’t good, is there something you would recommend?
 
Thanks!
 
https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-special-medium-milky-clear-abs-cement--1604941293?filter=%7B%22name%22:%22producttype%22,%22value%22:%22ABS%20Cement%22%7D
 
 
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My recommendation, if you aren’t familiar with the armor building and are concerned in the slightest that you may need to undo something and try again later, stick with E6000. E6000 takes a lot longer to set and cure for sure, but it’s more forgiving.

CA glues, “cement” type glues stuff like that are usually one time and set they also set a lot faster which means you have to pretty accurate from the start. What’s even worse is if you do make a mistake, taking them apart can be very damaging to the armor.

So probably could use it yes, but it has its drawbacks.


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[Shiri]

My recommendation, if you aren’t familiar with the armor building and are concerned in the slightest that you may need to undo something and try again later, stick with E6000. E6000 takes a lot longer to set and cure for sure, but it’s more forgiving.

CA glues, “cement” type glues stuff like that are usually one time and set they also set a lot faster which means you have to pretty accurate from the start. What’s even worse is if you do make a mistake, taking them apart can be very damaging to the armor.

So probably could use it yes, but it has its drawbacks.


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I’m planning to use e6000 for some areas but for a more permanent and solid bond, do you have any recommendations?


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[FN1313[TK]]

I’m planning to use e6000 for some areas but for a more permanent and solid bond, do you have any recommendations?


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I’d say E6000 for the whole armor. It’s what I’ve used and it’s very strong when it cures for what you need. The risk you run with “permanent” bonds is if you ever need to or want to make adjustments it’s a nightmare. With how strong e6000 is in general you should be fine using it for the entirety of the gluing portion of your armor.


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[Shiri]

I’d say E6000 for the whole armor. It’s what I’ve used and it’s very strong when it cures for what you need. The risk you run with “permanent” bonds is if you ever need to or want to make adjustments it’s a nightmare. With how strong e6000 is in general you should be fine using it for the entirety of the gluing portion of your armor.


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Ok thanks!


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Personally I'd stick with E6000, easy to pry apart if you need to make changes (sizing up or sizing down) which is very useful if you do sell in the future. Make sure you rough up both areas you are gluing with some coarse sandpaper before applying glue, gives the glue something to bond too. Most parts not under strain leave dry for 24 hours, any parts under any strain leave 48 - 72 hours. 

[Shiri]

Personally I'd stick with E6000, easy to pry apart if you need to make changes (sizing up or sizing down) which is very useful if you do sell in the future. Make sure you rough up both areas you are gluing with some coarse sandpaper before applying glue, gives the glue something to bond too. Most parts not under strain leave dry for 24 hours, any parts under any strain leave 48 - 72 hours. 

Will do! Thanks!


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[TheRascalKing[TK]]

18 hours ago, Shiri said:

Hi everyone, I’m curious if any of you have any experience with oatey abs cement? I found a black version of it at Home Depot and did a test run with some scraps of abs and it seems to work well, but I haven’t seen anyone ever mention it in these forums which seems odd considering it is made for abs. I found that they do make a milky clear version which could be perfect for my needs on my denuo novo abs armor. I went to an armor party recently and some mentioned that ca glue worked but my understanding is that it is the same as superglue which can be brittle and crack. Plus I haven’t had the best experience with superglue. If the oatey abs cement isn’t good, is there something you would recommend?

Thanks!

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-special-medium-milky-clear-abs-cement--1604941293?filter=%7B%22name%22:%22producttype%22,%22value%22:%22ABS%20Cement%22%7D

 

Mannn, there are a million different brands of ABS-specific glues and bonding agents, so there's no 100% "right" answer for this, and the one you linked might work great! Many of the products you're going to hear suggested in here are suggested because they are easy to find for most people and have worked consistently well for builders when used correctly in specific situations. Doesn't mean something else won't work even better - it just might not be tried and true. Everyone has their favorite brand from personal experience as well.

 

Same as to what glue to use overall - you just have to look at the different variables and figure out what you need from that bond and what glue is right for the situation. Most of the time, this info is on the product label or can be found online, but you gotta be thinking about things like:

 

- How long does it take to bond?

- What type of materials is it made to bond?

- How strong is the bond (psi?)?

- Will the bond remain flexible?

- What viscosity is it and will it run, spread, or craze?

- How much product is required and are runs or seepage removable/easy to clean?

- Is the bond reversible or removable, or permanent?

- What color is it once dry and does it cause discoloration or damage paint?

- Is it sandable or gap-filling?

- Does it expand or produce heat that may cause warping?

- Does it require clamping or a catalyst?

- Is it a single or two-part you mix and how is it dispensed?

- How does it age? Does it become brittle or weaken over time?

 

I'm decently into this as a hobby but am not an expert by any means, and I still probably have 10-15 different types of glue in my drawer (but use 3-4 regularly). You may not be able to check every single requirement box with the products you have available, but it may be worth buying a new product, or seeing if you are able to compromise to make it work. 

 

But that being said, since we're talking DN FOTKs and we're both based in California (glue, like paint, can be regional) - I've mostly been using E6000 (I like the medium size tubes with the pointed tip) on the overlapped areas of the arms and legs where they will need to remain flexible. In areas where I am adding ABS slurry to fill seams (shoulders and ab sides), I wanted the pieces to be a little more rigid and not flex much or ever come apart, to avoid potentially cracking the slurried areas. I used a 2-part Loctite plastic bonder, but I'm not sure I would recommend it due to the color and seepage, but in general it wasn't bad and produced a strong, pretty stiff bond. I put down a couple strips of tape on my bench, then dispensed and mixed/applied it with a small popsicle stick. To apply the greeblie clips and such, I used Satellite City CA Hot Stuff Special T and kicked it with NCF Quick with positive results. Hope that helps!

Edited April 27, 2023 by TheRascalKing

[Shiri]

 
Mannn, there are a million different brands of ABS-specific glues and bonding agents, so there's no 100% "right" answer for this, and the one you linked might work great! Many of the products you're going to hear suggested in here are suggested because they are easy to find for most people and have worked consistently well for builders when used correctly in specific situations. Doesn't mean something else won't work even better - it just might not be tried and true. Everyone has their favorite brand from personal experience as well.
 
Same as to what glue to use overall - you just have to look at the different variables and figure out what you need from that bond and what glue is right for the situation. Most of the time, this info is on the product label or can be found online, but you gotta be thinking about things like:
 
- How long does it take to bond?
- What type of materials is it made to bond?
- How strong is the bond (psi?)?
- Will the bond remain flexible?
- What viscosity is it and will it run, spread, or craze?
- How much product is required and are runs or seepage removable/easy to clean?
- Is the bond reversible or removable, or permanent?
- What color is it once dry and does it cause discoloration or damage paint?
- Is it sandable or gap-filling?
- Does it expand or produce heat that may cause warping?
- Does it require clamping or a catalyst?
- Is it a single or two-part you mix and how is it dispensed?
- How does it age? Does it become brittle or weaken over time?
 
I'm decently into this as a hobby but am not an expert by any means, and I still probably have 10-15 different types of glue in my drawer (but use 3-4 regularly). You may not be able to check every single requirement box with the products you have available, but it may be worth buying a new product, or seeing if you are able to compromise to make it work. 
 
But that being said, since we're talking DN FOTKs and we're both based in California (glue, like paint, can be regional) - I've mostly been using E6000 (I like the medium size tubes with the pointed tip) on the overlapped areas of the arms and legs where they will need to remain flexible. In areas where I am adding ABS slurry to fill seams (shoulders and ab sides), I wanted the pieces to be a little more rigid and not flex much or ever come apart, to avoid potentially cracking the slurried areas. I used a 2-part Loctite plastic bonder, but I'm not sure I would recommend it due to the color and seepage, but in general it wasn't bad and produced a strong, pretty stiff bond. I put down a couple strips of tape on my bench, then dispensed and mixed/applied it with a small popsicle stick. To apply the greeblie clips and such, I used Satellite City CA Hot Stuff Special T and kicked it with NCF Quick with positive results. Hope that helps!

That was my concern as well, I want to make sure the yoke and ABs don’t flex or crack. Thanks for the advice and feedback, lots to think about.


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

2 hours ago, Shiri said:

That was my concern as well, I want to make sure the yoke and ABs don’t flex or crack. Thanks for the advice and feedback, lots to think about.

I missed (funny) that it was for an FOTK build, I used JB weld on any areas that needed strong bonding, it is sandable too which was good. For any flexing areas I still used E6000

[Shiri]

I missed (funny) that it was for an FOTK build, I used JB weld on any areas that needed strong bonding, it is sandable too which was good. For any flexing areas I still used E6000

Thanks!


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[FN1313[TK]]

Cracking and repair unfortunately is more of a when rather than an if in this costume business, that being said I’ve learned from my old FOTK (which was fiberglass not abs) and my scout trooper that the best thing to do is scout out areas of flexing that are more likely to develop cracks. Or corners that are sharper than others.

For flex areas I recommend installing strengthening plastic behind to help add durability. Like I did with my shoulder bridges and my ab edges on my current OTTK build. Especially areas with raised detail like the shoulder bridges you see here.





For areas with sharp edges give them a little rounded off corner rather than a sharp one as that will dissuade cracks from forming where sharp edges are more likely. For example the posterior armor I’ve curved the corners near the bottom a bit so they aren’t sharp.




A reason you’ll want to consider most on the fotk, the yoke shoulders for certain. Look into using the shoulder bracket method. Not only does it reinforce, but it also sets up the little tab that protrudes for the shoulders to rest on for better accuracy.

Ab armor will bend no matter what. I can’t say exactly the best areas to reinforce there as it’s all one huge piece, but considering abs builds have you using a rear cover strip and then abs paste to fill and smooth that’s going to help where I would see cracks on mine.

Forearms have lots of corners and edges to just keep your eye on. The area between the back and yoke pieces may be a place of stress to consider.

And the spats…those things are royal buttheads for flexing and stuff so definitely worth finding where to reinforce those in my opinion if that helps.


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

With how some have been filling their yokes/back plates try to leave a small gap when you apply glue and fill with ABS paste, sand and polish then you won't have to paint that area

[Shiri]

Cracking and repair unfortunately is more of a when rather than an if in this costume business, that being said I’ve learned from my old FOTK (which was fiberglass not abs) and my scout trooper that the best thing to do is scout out areas of flexing that are more likely to develop cracks. Or corners that are sharper than others.

For flex areas I recommend installing strengthening plastic behind to help add durability. Like I did with my shoulder bridges and my ab edges on my current OTTK build. Especially areas with raised detail like the shoulder bridges you see here.





For areas with sharp edges give them a little rounded off corner rather than a sharp one as that will dissuade cracks from forming where sharp edges are more likely. For example the posterior armor I’ve curved the corners near the bottom a bit so they aren’t sharp.




A reason you’ll want to consider most on the fotk, the yoke shoulders for certain. Look into using the shoulder bracket method. Not only does it reinforce, but it also sets up the little tab that protrudes for the shoulders to rest on for better accuracy.

Ab armor will bend no matter what. I can’t say exactly the best areas to reinforce there as it’s all one huge piece, but considering abs builds have you using a rear cover strip and then abs paste to fill and smooth that’s going to help where I would see cracks on mine.

Forearms have lots of corners and edges to just keep your eye on. The area between the back and yoke pieces may be a place of stress to consider.

And the spats…those things are royal buttheads for flexing and stuff so definitely worth finding where to reinforce those in my opinion if that helps.


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Thanks!


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[Shiri]

With how some have been filling their yokes/back plates try to leave a small gap when you apply glue and fill with ABS paste, sand and polish then you won't have to paint that area

Sorry, I’m not sure I understand


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

28 minutes ago, Shiri said:

Sorry, I’m not sure I understand
 

Don't use too much glue on joins so you won't have to remove any for filling with ABS paste (slurry)

[Shiri]

Don't use too much glue on joins so you won't have to remove any for filling with ABS paste (slurry)

Got it! Thanks!


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[Shiri]

After a couple days I took another look at the scraps I glued together using the abs cement I posted earlier and discovered that where there was a large amount of cement that had pooled, the abs had deformed. The bond is strong and the area where I was careful not to get too much on looks good but where it ran and pooled, the abs melted.


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Yes be very careful not to use too much, can melt as you found out. I've seen some use this glue on snap plates only to find the heat transferred to the snaps and deformed the plastic they were glued to. 

[Shiri]

Yes be very careful not to use too much, can melt as you found out. I've seen some use this glue on snap plates only to find the heat transferred to the snaps and deformed the plastic they were glued to. 

What would you recommend to glue the snaps / nylon straps? E6000?


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Just now, Shiri said:

What would you recommend to glue the snaps / nylon straps? E6000?

Yes that's what I use, I find the nylon forms to the curves of the armor well unlike plastic plates, E6000 does take a while to dry but if you ever have to replace them it's easy to remove. If you have a soldering iron you can make holes with it so they don't fray. Also when you cut the nylon pieces run a lighter across the ends so they don't fray  

[Shiri]

Yes that's what I use, I find the nylon forms to the curves of the armor well unlike plastic plates, E6000 does take a while to dry but if you ever have to replace them it's easy to remove. If you have a soldering iron you can make holes with it so they don't fray. Also when you cut the nylon pieces run a lighter across the ends so they don't fray  

Thanks!


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[Shiri]

 
Mannn, there are a million different brands of ABS-specific glues and bonding agents, so there's no 100% "right" answer for this, and the one you linked might work great! Many of the products you're going to hear suggested in here are suggested because they are easy to find for most people and have worked consistently well for builders when used correctly in specific situations. Doesn't mean something else won't work even better - it just might not be tried and true. Everyone has their favorite brand from personal experience as well.
 
Same as to what glue to use overall - you just have to look at the different variables and figure out what you need from that bond and what glue is right for the situation. Most of the time, this info is on the product label or can be found online, but you gotta be thinking about things like:
 
- How long does it take to bond?
- What type of materials is it made to bond?
- How strong is the bond (psi?)?
- Will the bond remain flexible?
- What viscosity is it and will it run, spread, or craze?
- How much product is required and are runs or seepage removable/easy to clean?
- Is the bond reversible or removable, or permanent?
- What color is it once dry and does it cause discoloration or damage paint?
- Is it sandable or gap-filling?
- Does it expand or produce heat that may cause warping?
- Does it require clamping or a catalyst?
- Is it a single or two-part you mix and how is it dispensed?
- How does it age? Does it become brittle or weaken over time?
 
I'm decently into this as a hobby but am not an expert by any means, and I still probably have 10-15 different types of glue in my drawer (but use 3-4 regularly). You may not be able to check every single requirement box with the products you have available, but it may be worth buying a new product, or seeing if you are able to compromise to make it work. 
 
But that being said, since we're talking DN FOTKs and we're both based in California (glue, like paint, can be regional) - I've mostly been using E6000 (I like the medium size tubes with the pointed tip) on the overlapped areas of the arms and legs where they will need to remain flexible. In areas where I am adding ABS slurry to fill seams (shoulders and ab sides), I wanted the pieces to be a little more rigid and not flex much or ever come apart, to avoid potentially cracking the slurried areas. I used a 2-part Loctite plastic bonder, but I'm not sure I would recommend it due to the color and seepage, but in general it wasn't bad and produced a strong, pretty stiff bond. I put down a couple strips of tape on my bench, then dispensed and mixed/applied it with a small popsicle stick. To apply the greeblie clips and such, I used Satellite City CA Hot Stuff Special T and kicked it with NCF Quick with positive results. Hope that helps!

I tried the loctite plastic bonder but it didn’t hold and just popped apart with minimal pressure.

I’ve been testing more with the abs cement and it doesn’t seem solid enough with just putting a thin coating on one side.

However a thin coating on both sides creates a great bond that I haven’t been able to pull apart and hasn’t melted the plastic.

http:// Oatey 30922 ABS Special Clear Cement, 16 oz, Milky White, 16 Fluid Ounces https://a.co/d/5TnNGgx


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[Shiri]

Oatey 30922 ABS Special Clear Cement, 16 oz, Milky White, 16 Fluid Ounces https://a.co/d/5TnNGgx


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