ANH Stunt "fitting/adjustment" thread (AP)

[ABS80]

28 minutes ago, ABS80 said:

The movie original had return edges on the upper thighs and butt plate ect... thats why I left them, its movie accurate and part of the design to create illusion of thickness. TBH its looks unfinished without return edge especially the upper thighs, I honestly didnt see a reason to remove the return edges in those areas especially in your case since thighs are loose on you so the return edge shouldn't bother you.

 

Mark (AP)

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by ABS80

[BAZINGA[TK]]

45 minutes ago, ABS80 said:

The movie original had return edges on the upper thighs and butt plate ect... thats why I left them, its movie accurate and part of the design to create illusion of thickness. TBH its looks unfinished without return edge especially the upper thighs, I honestely didnt see a valid reason to remove the return edges in those areas   

 

Mark (AP)

 

Well lovely.  Seems to be conflicting information in this thread.  Bart

[ABS80]

57 minutes ago, Bartman said:

 

Well lovely.  Seems to be conflicting information in this thread.  Bart

What works for some doesn't mean it applies to you, always make your research before trimming anything, the only reason some remove the return edges on the thigh parts is because they are a too tight which wasn't the case for you, it would have been actually much easier for me to trim without leaving return edge instead of trimming and leaving nice even return edges. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by ABS80

[BAZINGA[TK]]

1 minute ago, ABS80 said:

What works for some doesn't mean it works for you, so whatever people suggest here you should make deeper research especially before trimming anything. The only reason some feel the need to remove the return edges on the thigh part is because they are a tight fit which wasnt the case for you, it would have been actually much easier for me to trim without leaving return edge instead of trimming and leaving nice even return edges on upper,  I guess wasted time

My apologies.  Just was trying to do the right things.  Bart

[BAZINGA[TK]]

I guess since I did a big blunder by trimming I won't be cutting anything else.  The drop boxes are good enough for basic approval as is if I just add the glue to the backs of them so they hang straighter?

 

Bart

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Its not a mistake, some like to keep return edges (like me) as they give a thicker more full appearance BUT some need more room or to stop pinching so they trim.

 

 

A great thread on return edges here 

 

 

It's entirely up to your GML if they will aprove the drop box position were they are  now, but they should be OK for most. Adding some glue to the tops to stop them leaning will be an improvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BAZINGA[TK]]

7 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

Its not a mistake, some like to keep return edges (like me) as they give a thicker more full appearance BUT some need more room or to stop pinching so they trim.

 

 

A great thread on return edges here 

 

 

It's entirely up to your GML if they will aprove the drop box position were they are  now, but they should be OK for most. Adding some glue to the tops to stop them leaning will be an improvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read that thread and many others before deciding it was something that needed to be done,  but I guess I didn't dig deep enough and now am the fool for trying to do what I took as being a standard.  My bad.  No more cutting of anything for me.  I just hope it didn't ruin something in the process.  Bart

[ABS80]

48 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

Its not a mistake, some like to keep return edges (like me) as they give a thicker more full appearance BUT some need more room or to stop pinching so they trim.

 

 

A great thread on return edges here 

 

 

It's entirely up to your GML if they will aprove the drop box position were they are  now, but they should be OK for most. Adding some glue to the tops to stop them leaning will be an improvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always leave return edges because its movie accurate and a nicer finish IMHO, but in his case he didn't need to remove the return edges, his thighs are only 21" plenty of room so the return edges had no effect on fitting, and removing the return edge from butt plate not sure how that happened  

Edited December 20, 2022 by ABS80

[BAZINGA[TK]]

7 minutes ago, ABS80 said:

I always leave return edges because its movie accurate and a nicer finish IMHO, but in his case he didn't need to remove the return edges his thighs are only 21" plenty of room so the return edges had no effect on fitting, and removing the return edge from butt plate not sure how that happened  

The history is all in this thread as well as the link posted about return edges and the butt plate cracking.  That was the logic behind it all.   Yeah I got the message it was all wrong to do.   If I could go back in time and not do it I would.  I have to live with it now.  Hopefully I don't need to order replacements to be approvable.  I've already puked over it and having an anxiety attack.  Not sure what else I can do at this point.  Bart

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bartman
grammer

[revlimiter[Staff]]

Truly you did not do anything wrong. The photos I supplied in this thread are of my own centruion-approved  AP armor. You do not need to punish your body with these return edges and you did not harm anything in their removal. 

 

All of the cuts you did were fine and you have been doing fantastic work in making the armor fit your body.  There's no need to second guess and no need to stress. No need to go backwards either.

 

You were sorting out the belt. Best to move forward with that IMHO.

 

If you're doubting things, look at this.

This is not remotely wearable. It needed to be fixed.  You fixed it.

[BAZINGA[TK]]

15 minutes ago, revlimiter said:

Truly you did not do anything wrong. The photos I supplied in this thread are of my own centruion-approved  AP armor. You do not need to punish your body with these return edges and you did not harm anything in their removal. 

 

All of the cuts you did were fine and you have been doing fantastic work in making the armor fit your body.  There's no need to second guess and no need to stress. No need to go backwards either.

 

You were sorting out the belt. Best to move forward with that IMHO.

 

If you're doubting things, look at this.

This is not remotely wearable. It needed to be fixed.  You fixed it.

Thanks.  It's, unfortunately, my nature to feel I F%^$d up here badly,  There is still some return edges, I didn't remove an inch, it's just not as noticeable as some examples are.

 

I have added some glue to the top edge of the drop box to hopefully move the pivot point so it hangs better.  This is a non-invasive thing I can do.  Other than my original gluing idea to move it over I don't think there is any other way of fixing except for cutting something.  Won't cut anything ever again so I know this would remove me from any higher levels but at the end of the day I can be happy to get to basic because the people who will be excited to see the costumes won't care and if I can make some smiles then that is what I wanted all along.   Still hoping for a different idea on sliding it over because I don't need to do that as a priority  Bart

[revlimiter[Staff]]

Think of it this way: there's many ways to skin a cat. Every way that ends in a fresh cat pelt is valid and correct. 

 

Nothing you've done has barred you from centurion level and there's likely more work to be done in the future to achieve it. You're still on the right path. I mean some folks have to move bolts to be locations for centurion. Others have to splice in sections of abs to make their armor fit at all. The material is very forgiving and there are techniques to do all of this without destroying the armor. 

 

Anyways, back to getting you some basic approval. 

[BAZINGA[TK]]

Tomorrow night I'm hoping to try another fit with the fully glued left arm then need ideas for how the shoulder needs to be repositioned for the snap to close up some of the shoulder gap on the front.  If the left arm is fitting well then I can glue up the right arm and call the arms finished.  Then it will be time to sort out the legs and ensure they are where they need to be.  Preliminary fitting of the thighs ( holding them at various heights) seem to suggest I have enough room to wear them high if need be or a bit lower and still bend my knees.  I've been told that leg adjustment is usually straight forward so hoping for that.  Bart

[BAZINGA[TK]]

Onwards.  It's the always fun photos of my crotch night.

 

Still working on getting the arm spacing correct.  Really seems to be a bear with fiddling.  After taping up the strapping and checking it a few days ago I glued it and still seems to need more adjusting.  Not sure if I should raise the bicep about a half inch to pull up the forearm or shorten the elastic between the bicep and the forearm by half an inch.  The bicep is the easier of the two to do.

 

I put some glue on the back of one of the drop boxes to hold the top in better and you really can't tell looking at either of them.  They both hang OK I think, but there is the horizontal problem to puzzle out yet to move them outwards.  Remember I cannot remove the belt and no cutting of anything is allowed going forward.

 

The shoulder bells strapping might need to be a bit shorter then there is the front gap to address.

 

I see there is some butt flare which I had noticed before but something else to address.  I also think the v-hooks might be a good idea.  I might be able to add some additional elastic snaps from the kidney to the butt plate on the outside edges as I have the two that I won't be using on the forearms.

 

I don't have the belt or garter system yet, but thought I would try to just hold a thigh in place and see how the clearances were.  I think so far so good.  I could walk up and down the stairs holding it in this position and there doesn't seem to be a lot of black camo showing in the crotch area.  Remember, I'm just holding this sort of in position.

 

So here is what I need to know to proceed:

 

1) The arm shortening either bicep or forearm elastic or do I leave it?

2) if I get new shoulder elastics made how far forward to move the snap?  Photo attached to show the size of the strap which is 4 inches which seems fine.  I don't have a lot of offset room to move it.

3) Adjust the shoulder strap to the torso be shorter or leave it?

4) V tabs on the butt plate and/or add the extra elastic?  I don't want to heat this even in water.

 

*** remember, no cutting of anything is allowed ***

*** working on BASIC right now ***

 

Bart

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[revlimiter[Staff]]

Very likely those arms are fine for basic. Looks quite good to me.  I wouldn't mess with it until later in the process.

 

V-tabs seem to work well. I don't think they'd hurt at all!

[BAZINGA[TK]]

31 minutes ago, revlimiter said:

Very likely those arms are fine for basic. Looks quite good to me.  I wouldn't mess with it until later in the process.

 

V-tabs seem to work well. I don't think they'd hurt at all!

I'm not sure.  Forearm just ended up lower than my tape test.  It's not hard to fix these sorts of things and I'd rather just get them done than revisit later.  And, the shoulder I'm sure needs to rotate forward regardless.  Maybe move the snap halfway forward?  Or a half inch?  Three-quarters of an inch?  How can I gauge what would do the trick?

 

I had an idea tonight for butt flare.  What happens if an elastic were to run between each corner just taunt enough so when my butt is in there it pulls the corners in just a bit?  Is that crazy?

 

Bart

[revlimiter[Staff]]

I almost hate to say this in public... but the forearms do tend to move. We get them perfect for centurion applications, but in daily trooping, they're not always (or ever) in their exact correct spots. Same with shoulder rotation. Mine tend to move forward and look nice on their own, but they are definitely not always aligned that way.

 

On shoulder straps and snaps, I'm a huge proponent of double snaps up there. The arms just love to come unsnapped at the shoulder. Having double snaps on both the shoulder strap and inside the bell does a ton of good things for keeping them connected while trooping.  So... if you were planning on moving shoulder snaps anyway, I would highly suggest turning them into double snaps.

 

As far as moving the snaps forward, It seems like about a snap's width works well. Like a cm or so. Half inch-ish.  Glen would know the answer in his sleep most likely as I've seen him post about it.

 

Lastly - butt flare - There was a build thread with someone who did something like you're describing to fix butt flare as well. I can't find it now, but it was in there not long ago. Probably one of the last 10 threads. Have a dig? It seems like a good idea to me.

[BAZINGA[TK]]

I was thinking about a half inch forward so my guess is pretty good.  They will need to remain singles though as I would just get new shoulder elastic done and not try to redo that whole thing.  Maybe Glen will weigh in here on the rotation before I order new straps.

 

I'm still looking at photos to decide if I'm happy with forearm position resting.  I think my bicep position looks good, compared to photos but it's that movement that drives my OCD over the top and round the bend trying to come to terms with it.  I still feel the forearm could come up about half and inch to allow for a bit more wiggle room.  

 

I will try and cypher out the butt flare thread.  I was going to try to get the legs on tonight with the torso for a check on that fitting, but got home late and don't want to end up in it and over thinking something anymore today.  So that is now the plan for tomorrow night.

 

Bart

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I always attach my shoulder straps further forward so it helps the shoulders to rotate inwards after moving.

You can see how much further forward they are from the middle of the straps in this image

 

I would bring your forearms up a touch, just even the gaps at the elbow and wrists, I'm sure you would be approved how they are though. I added foam inside my forearms to stop rotation, this helps them stay pretty straight

 

 

[BAZINGA[TK]]

10 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

I always attach my shoulder straps further forward so it helps the shoulders to rotate inwards after moving.

You can see how much further forward they are from the middle of the straps in this image

 

I would bring your forearms up a touch, just even the gaps at the elbow and wrists, I'm sure you would be approved how they are though. I added foam inside my forearms to stop rotation, this helps them stay pretty straight

 

 

That does seem to be about one snap width forward if I just try and eyeball that photo.  I think that is going to be my plan.  I've been considering the forearm since last night and still debating, but the more I look at the photos the more I think moving the elastic just half an inch higher will bring the forearms within tolerance and ease my OCD on them.  I will still do a bit of padding in the forearms after that change as I think any further tweaking doesn't gain much in look but does feed my OCD to the point of not moving forward just obsessing.

 

I am aiming for early January to be ready for basic and I think I can manage that.  Thanks for the input on the snap position and everything else you have helped with thus far.

 

Bart

[BAZINGA[TK]]

I'm down to the legs.  I don't have my final harness system yet so had to make do with an old belt that I had to wrap around to try and get a general placement for the thighs.  Not ideal, but should be enough for you guys to give me the goods on what will need to happen.  Generally I felt things didn't fit too bad.  I could walk.  Couldn't really bend much.  I noticed the shins wanted to turn but knew that sometimes happens and there are easy fixes for that.  It was very strange walking in it as the armor noises from the drop boxes clacking and just the armor in general was weird to hear.  I do realize that the back of the one shin missed getting closed.

 

What do I need to do to whip the bottom half into shape?

 

Bart

 

 

 

 

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Overall nothing major stands out, really more some tweaks, thighs not at same height, also shins not closed properly, these things can make a difference to fitment so keep an eye on those next suit up. 

 

You can see here just under the cod the right thigh is a little lower

 

You will get used the the clanking, nothing better than hearing a group of TK's clatter along

 

I use elastic and snaps under the front of the shins attached to the boots to stop rotation and stop them riding up when kneeling

 

 

[BAZINGA[TK]]

7 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

Overall nothing major stands out, really more some tweaks, thighs not at same height, also shins not closed properly, these things can make a difference to fitment so keep an eye on those next suit up. 

 

You can see here just under the cod the right thigh is a little lower

 

You will get used the the clanking, nothing better than hearing a group of TK's clatter along

 

I use elastic and snaps under the front of the shins attached to the boots to stop rotation and stop them riding up when kneeling

 

 

Good to hear.  I thought it seemed pretty reasonable for fit and once I get the harness for the thighs I can better adjust their height.  I still need a helper to see things I can see well when trying to get into it.  Up to this point all these attempts have been just me.  I was happy I managed to get the legs and the torso on without too much struggle.  It will take some getting used to for the sound.  It's funny because I had never noticed any sound watching one of them walk around recently but sure noticed it when I tried it out.

 

I was thinking of doing the velcro on the front of the boot as a starting point to keep the shins aligned but want to wait until I get the harness to ensure I'm lined up nicely first.  I am not anticipating having to use any padding in the thighs as Mark has the diameters very dialed in for me.  At most maybe a half inch piece of foam here and there.

 

I am going to add the butt v-tabs this weekend and I am adjusting the distance on the forearm elastic as previously mentioned also this weekend.  The first one is reglued and drying. 

 

Bart

[revlimiter[Staff]]

On the topic of thighs wanting to spin - it took me a long time trooping to figure out the culprit, but it's the way you have your thigh garters.

 

When I started trooping, I weighed about 10 lbs more than I do now and about 20 lbs more than when I figured out my thigh spinning problem. I use a belt exactly like you've got rigged up. My midsection had decreased, and so I had my belt tighter. That put the garters running between the belt and thighs at an odd angle and the thighs very very gradually spun to equal that angle out over about a quarter mile of walking. It wasn't all at once so it was really hard to figure out.

 

The fix was to make sure the thigh garters were straight up and down and not trying to spin the armor one way or the other.  I hammered a few snaps into my belt so that I could adjust (and FIX) where the garter sat depending on my size at the time and that totally sorted it out. No more spinning.

 

I mention this because it'll bother you whether you're using suspenders or a belt. The thighs will want to spin if the garter pulls them in one way. Just something to look out for.

 

The elastic on the front of the shin is a great idea. I use velco there to keep the top of the boot attached to the bottom of the shin. There's not much force, so just about anything will work to keep the shins fixed. The important thing is that you have something there.

 

This looks great, BTW. You're getting so close!

[BAZINGA[TK]]

6 minutes ago, revlimiter said:

On the topic of thighs wanting to spin - it took me a long time trooping to figure out the culprit, but it's the way you have your thigh garters.

 

When I started trooping, I weighed about 10 lbs more than I do now and about 20 lbs more than when I figured out my thigh spinning problem. I use a belt exactly like you've got rigged up. My midsection had decreased, and so I had my belt tighter. That put the garters running between the belt and thighs at an odd angle and the thighs very very gradually spun to equal that angle out over about a quarter mile of walking. It wasn't all at once so it was really hard to figure out.

 

The fix was to make sure the thigh garters were straight up and down and not trying to spin the armor one way or the other.  I hammered a few snaps into my belt so that I could adjust (and FIX) where the garter sat depending on my size at the time and that totally sorted it out. No more spinning.

 

I mention this because it'll bother you whether you're using suspenders or a belt. The thighs will want to spin if the garter pulls them in one way. Just something to look out for.

 

The elastic on the front of the shin is a great idea. I use velco there to keep the top of the boot attached to the bottom of the shin. There's not much force, so just about anything will work to keep the shins fixed. The important thing is that you have something there.

 

This looks great, BTW. You're getting so close!

Yeah the belt I was using was not ideal but worked in a pinch to just see if the fit would be okay.  If I am understanding you correctly you are saying the elastic from the thigh should go straight up to the belt or harness not be at any kind of angle.  That makes perfect sense.  I will have to see how this harness will arrive and if I have adjustment options with it.  I'm flying blind on what exactly Geeky Pink is making me in this regard other than she says it will be better than a belt.

 

I am referring to velcro on the shin not elastic.   That is what I see on a bunch of photos and one of the easier tweaks I think.

 

I'll do one more arm fitting after the glue dries, but I don't think I want to try any more tweaking there other than adding the padding.  It's time to get the legs fitting nice and move closer to the final photos!

 

Thanks.

 

Bart