Meatstock Sandtrooper Helmet?

[TX-8687[501st]]

thanks everyone for your opinions....

[Heatshock[501st]]

darn hope not too late to post

 

I get wot u are sayin Luis - really I do. Money is tight everywhere now.

if I had only USD100 to spend on Meatstock or MR CE. I would spend it on MRCE despite its obvious flaws.

 

not sure how much people know me on here or other forums - but I have a rather rigid personal stance on recasting. I know 501 stance on it and respect that from that point of view. I also realise some people buy recasted stuff w/o prior knowledge. But to knowingly buy a recasted item is a big no-no in my book (for wot its worth) and something I would personally not do. Emphasis on the personal - so not tellin u wot to do or passing judgement.

 

yes - from a pure econmoic point of view - USD80 shipped is quite a deal. and superficially it looks nice (it is a TE recast after all)

 

BUT... from a personal principal point of view; it wouldnt sit right with me and I would rather spend the cash on the MRCE. I would probably sleep easier too.

 

I have often missed out on some juicy deals on here or TDH due to being over concerned with origins of things; some call it stupid. but hey ho - its all opinions anyway.

 

But I do agree with the opinion that supporting a recaster does harm the hobby as a whole in the long run. Not meant to offend any1, but it has to be said.

 

Good luck with purchase and mods

 

Nate

[TX-8687[501st]]

thanks nate, i appreciate your opinion, well i haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet, so will see...i really don't support recasting either, and i know even considering this is going against my beliefs, but like you said, money is tight for me right now, so we will see what happens! I actually already have an MRCE so i know the quality of it, so i'll keep everyone updated! money is tight because of economics, and i'm an avid collector!!!!!!! between collecting and this hobby, i'm out a lot of cash!

[Peregrinus]

I'll second the idea of asking the legit makers if they have any reject helmet bits they'd be willing to part with for a discount, since you're going to be painting it. I want you to have your Shadowtrooper, and without bankrupting you, and with no stain on it.

 

--Jonah

[trooperstormy]

what does this thing look like anyways?

[TK-7980]

what does this thing look like anyways?

Check the first page.

[sskunky]

That said TE, AP , TE2, VT and AA etc, are all technically re-casters like it or not. How far can you take re-casting? re-cast , re-cast of original, remodeling of an original mold? I suppose it is all down to personal taste, and how you look at art, which this is.

 

We all strive to impress others and gain personal satisfaction for what we do. That's human nature. I agree I said I don't want to support re-casters but I haven't really thought about it before.

 

By modifying our Armor, Blasters and any other part of our costumes we are altering the original designs which is what we all do to most casts we purchase.

 

Someone that recasts an original suit is still recasting and technically replicating someone else' work and making money off the back of that. A $200.00 sheet of abs sold for $1000!!!! Heating plastic and pulling it over a mold using a vacuum table isn't that hard I have done it myself.

 

I think if it's your money and you like what you are buying then that should be good enough. Just because alot of people seem to think it is wrong doesn't make it so. There are a great deal of talented model makers that produce some great work even if the basis of the item was cast from someone else' recast of an original. If I do 3D scan of a bucket and get a CNC Machine to make a mold and I then pull a sheet of abs over that and make my own lid I haven't actually recast anything but it will look the same and have all the characteristics of the original which is incidentally a recast of an original anyway . Confused ?

You only have to see how many people wear FX for instance which doesn't even derive from any screen accurate roots yet that seems to be acceptable?

 

If it is screen accurate then it has at some time or another been recast or closely copied from such.

 

I'm not saying that all the pre mentioned guys are not right or wrong at what they do and they are all/most regarded as the best source of armor etc that there are, but anyone else that produces a great looking piece of kit shouldn't be classed as wrong too.

 

We never seem to have this view about any other part of the armor/costume. eg. Blasters, backpacks,belts and pouches etc, we all seem to re cast, remold , copy those but that's OK is it?

 

All this said I do or will very shortly have an AP set and am looking forward to it too but I do have other very accurate stuff made by other people and it is all in my opinion great stuff regardless to where it originally came from.

 

Sometimes we can all get a little obsessive about this.

 

Nobody's wrong if you like it buy it.

 

I'm not looking for an argument or slagging anyone off, just my tuppence worth.

 

 

Mark.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

In one context your right, in another you're not. To say we're all "recasters" for recasting a screen used helmet is equivalent to recasting a 100% sculpt is not equivalent. To say otherwise is dodging the moral certainty that you're copying someone else's work.

 

Secondly if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Maybe you live in a low wage area like Arkansas where $20-$30k a year is average and you have plenty of free time. But someone else may live in a high cost area where grocery clerks make $14/hour and they have demands of family/kids. To them their time is worth much more, so to ask that they sell it cheaply is not a valid ask.

 

What is really comes down to is since we are all dependent on fans making kit, if the recasting hurts the prime prop maker it's a bad thing. If you recast a licensed MRCE for your own use, probably no one cares as it doesn't hurt the prop making community.

[Peregrinus]

Well, I said a while back what I considered to be the distinction between recasting and reproducing.

 

At the time TE made his mould from the inside of a screen-used helmet -- whatever was done to it and whoever else it or copies of it went to (legitimately) down the road, it was a reproduction of something that was, at the time, not available elsewhere. George and his legal team know of our use of helmets made from moulding one of his originals, and he doesn't care so long as the makers don't advertise publicly. Which is why he went after AA like a ton'o'bricks.

 

Recasting in the currently-discussed context is striking a mould off of a non-original reproduction (further modified or not) of an original prop -- i.e., profiting from someone else's work when that work is currently available elsewhere. If Meatstock had secured his own original helmet (or the use of someone else's) and struck a mould off of it to turn into a forming buck, that would put him in with TE, GF, AP, and so forth. As it is, no.

 

--Jonah

[sskunky]

I still don't understand what makes it right to copy an original and not do a copy of that? If someone recasts an original then they are still ripping off the original modelmakers work. They haven't actually created the original molds therefore it's still a copy. AA made the original lids and still does but he is slated. GL took him to court and in effect lost as AA can still produce the armor etc due to industrial design licenses being redundant now. I still don't know why all these other guys are held in higher regard than AA when all they have done is recast his original work.

I can see this topic getting far too argumentative and everyone has their own view on who is wrong and who is right.

I may be a little biased as I know AA and he is a genuinely upfront kind of guy trying to make a buck like everyone else from something he actually made in the first place. I know there are gripes about where AA cast his suit from but everyone forgets that he made the armor that others are casting from anyway.

 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

No. Quite simply because LFL essentially turns a blind eye to that part of our hobby as long as no one is really making any money, and as long as the 501st maintains high levels of charity work. Basically what you're asking is why is it not OK to recast TE (or GINO). The main reason is that it dissuades people who have actual props or access to them from selling anything made from them. This in turn means we have to settle for less than screen used props, and some people like having stuff derived from screen used props.

 

It's all about having a healthy prop making ecosystem. Recasting really does kill the prop making community. No props, and we can't play dress up. That's really the bottom line.

[Bezerkus]

No. Quite simply because LFL essentially turns a blind eye to that part of our hobby as long as no one is really making any money, and as long as the 501st maintains high levels of charity work. Basically what you're asking is why is it not OK to recast TE (or GINO). The main reason is that it dissuades people who have actual props or access to them from selling anything made from them. This in turn means we have to settle for less than screen used props, and some people like having stuff derived from screen used props.

 

It's all about having a healthy prop making ecosystem. Recasting really does kill the prop making community. No props, and we can't play dress up. That's really the bottom line.

 

Well said Daetrin...

 

We want the best quality props and only the honor code among thieves (unofficial copyrights of the prop replica community) and making casts of the real stuff or talented replicators being the only way it will be made available with the accuracy we want. Original propmakers with the exception of AA and maybe a few others, usually won't/can't make those available. If they do, the price is in the stratosphere.

 

 

I know there are gripes about where AA cast his suit from but everyone forgets that he made the armor that others are casting from anyway.

 

AA didn't create the armor, he only pulled it from Brian Muirs sculpts. Still the new stuff is a nice set though; eventhough alot of it is just a mismash of different fanmade producers which is reworked ROTJ.

I've always thought the bells to be spot on and possibly cast off the original ANH bells. My opinion entirely, but shared by others.

[Smitty]

Basically is like this. It looks like its worth $80. Are you willing to take an $80 gamble? If you are, then smile and be merry if you like what you recieve. If you dont like what you recieve then you wont have any excuse to gripe. Buying a meatsock really isnt supporting recasting as stated earlier since your purchase will not incite Mr. Meatsock to start pulling helmets again.

 

Now lets talk about your plans for this helmet. You want to make a TX out of a Sand trooper helmet. You will have to do a crap ton of surface prep before you repaint it. A little fact about gloss glack paint...IT SHOWS EVERYTHING. So you are gonna take a notoriously crap helmet that has prolly been beat all to hell and paint it black....good luck.

[TK4205]

This will get messy. Always does. Same old questions. Same old responses.

 

DarthAlias, I think, Had you spent more time reading past threads, you might have opted out of asking the question. This very subject has split garrisons and has been fule for bickering since this det. started. And the irony is that you didn't even know it was a recast.

 

My advice to you is this; have fun in this hobby, keep your head down untill you've had a few troops under your belt, and when someone asks you what kind of helmet you have, shrug and say "I got it off ebay".

[TX-8687[501st]]

lol, thanks everyone, as always this forum helps me out when i have questions about armor etc.!!!! well, i'll keep everyone updated when i actually have money in hand to buy a new helmet!!!!! dang Paypal!!!!