Black Series Captain Cardinal FO Helmet Discussion

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

This just popped up on my radar today, and it doesn’t seem like anyone has posted it here yet so...

 

Link to helmet on Target (only site I can find pictures of it)

 

Obviously black series has been seen in the legion and on this site before, but it has needed extensive modification. This would be the first Black series helmet for the FO troopers and maybe we’ll get a all white one down the line?? But regardless my first look at the helmet looks very promising, although I’m only familiar with OT armor so maybe one of you FO guys could give some more insight on its accuracy. 
 

The biggest flaw with the R1 BS was the battery pack on the rear of the helmet, and it appears that has been removed!! 
 

I preordered it this morning, I’d be surprised if I could get my hands on a FO bucket for cheaper. I figured I’d give you guys the opportunity also  

Edited December 30, 2020 by Ericnathan811

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

There has been a lot of talk on FB about it. First time I've seen the battery pack hidden on one of their helmets, the whole underside ring comes off to reveal the battery area. For anyone down under these are available in Myer

 

Interestingly they added the TLJ clip specific detail, larger clip area recess

 

Some comparison photos with movie used TLJ helmet sold through Propstore. You will notice the helmet is a little broader and not as sharp in the teeth corner area

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Parquette[TK]]

1 hour ago, gmrhodes13 said:

There has been a lot of talk on FB about it. First time I've seen the battery pack hidden on one of their helmets, the whole underside ring comes off to reveal the battery area. For anyone down under these are available in Myer

 

Interestingly they added the TLJ clip specific detail, larger clip area recess

 

Some comparison photos with movie used TLJ helmet sold through Propstore. You will notice the helmet is a little broader and not as sharp in the teeth corner area

 

 

 

 

 

 

The photos of the BS are broken links, could you update that so we have a clearer picture (no pun intended)?

 

From everything I'm seeing, this should be a basic L1 passable TLJ helmet with no mods. Even the tiny little line around the aerator shouldn't be an issue, but definitely for L2 and L3 it should be changed. In addition, for higher tiers I think whatever color the rest of the armor is, needs to match almost perfectly with the red on this bucket. BS helmets have a tendency of having a "off" shade to their colors (such as with the R1TK), and always make it difficult to match perfectly with the rest of the armor. So a total repaint is potentially in order. 

 

The clips? Do you mean the trap-greeblies? I'm not seeing any issues there either. 

 

I am noticing the tube stripes are NOT totally hollow. If you look at the underside photo of the BS, only 3 stripes on each side are hollow, while the rest are covered by the interior plastic shell. This I highly believe should be modded as well. 

 

However, it's probably worth mentioning that I have no idea how dark the lenses will be when they're finally shipped out, so they MAY or MAY NOT be too clear, and easy to see the wearer's eyes inside. This tends to be a huge issue with any commercial bucket, the lenses are too clear from the outside. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Parquette

[BigJasoni[TK]]

7 hours ago, Ericnathan811 said:

I preordered it this morning, I’d be surprised if I could get my hands on a FO bucket for cheaper. I figured I’d give you guys the opportunity also  

Ugh... something else for me to want. I'm not a big fan of the FO, but I really like Captain Cardinal and Commander Pyre; I've got both of their Black Series figures sitting here in my office. Plus, I love how this  helmet looks, it's probably one of the better looking ones in the Black Series line. Question though... are you thinking about painting this white for a FO costume, or keeping it as a red Cardinal bucket? I know there's been previous discussions regarding realistic vs. animated helmets, so I'm just kind of curious.

Thanks!

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

2 hours ago, Parquette said:

The photos of the BS are broken links, could you update that so we have a clearer picture (no pun intended)?

 

Updated 

 

33 minutes ago, BigJasoni said:

 Question though... are you thinking about painting this white for a FO costume, or keeping it as a red Cardinal bucket? I know there's been previous discussions regarding realistic vs. animated helmets, so I'm just kind of curious.

Thanks!

 

At the moment I am not sure. I don't plan on making FO armor anytime soon as I only just finished my ROTJ. That being said it is on my bucket list to do one day, and I may or may not use this helmet; but that decision is very far down the road for me. Depending upon how I feel about it in person, and how easy it comes apart, I think going through the process of painting it would be a fun small project to do for a week or two...

I personally haven't seen the show (although I heard I should) so I don't really have an attachment to captain cardinal in particular, but he does look cool    

If I do wind up repainting it I will also make the Mods Parquette mentioned above, and anything else that may come up once I have it in my hands. Of course I'll make a thread with that process when I do so.

 

I'm actually pretty excited for this helmet, It doesn't look too far off! 

[BigJasoni[TK]]

51 minutes ago, Ericnathan811 said:

I personally haven't seen the show (although I heard I should) so I don't really have an attachment to captain cardinal in particular, but he does look cool    

Definitely a kids show, but I enjoyed it. Also, Dave Filoni was the series creator and executive producer, so it was put together very well. Personally, I feel like the show kind of opened a door to link the OT with the sequel trilogy. Ultimately, Resistance was just a fun show. Cardinal and Pyre were also players in the Captain Phasma novel; Cardinal in particular. They're good characters.

Regardless of the direction you go, this sounds like a fun project. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with. I'd probably grab one of these buckets too, but I've got my heart set on the new Black Series Dark Saber.
Have fun!

[Parquette[TK]]

Closer look. 

 

Looks like the speaker ain't so hidden after all. You'll find it in the black pin-stripe along the back, but honestly it's a matt finish, so electric tape should cover that up after some filler. 

 

 

[masterx244[TK]]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb gmrhodes13:

--Swsssh-- First time I've seen the battery pack hidden on one of their helmets, --SWSSSSH---

On the Poe Dameron one they got it hidden pretty well, too.

[Sly11[Admin]]

This looks more accurate than the Anovos TLJ helmet. The Jib and beak shape on this looks much closer to screen because Anovos simply changed the beak and added the teeth to their TFA helmet shape.

[BigJasoni[TK]]

That's a really good looking helmet. I love that they went with the die cast aerator. Looks like Hasbro is starting to step up their Black Series offerings. I just don't know if I could bring myself to repaint it, the red looks amazing. 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

They could very well have been informed another supplier of helmets will no longer have a license to do so, perhaps they stepped up their accuracy to fill that gap, who knows they may be supplying Disney parks as their would be a gap in supply there too. They definitely have stepped up their game from some of the early helmets offered. 

[Sly11[Admin]]

Haven't found one in a Myer store in Brisbane yet, looks like they are $199.00 Australian though.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Quite a few in Myer city store here in the west before Christmas but I doubt there'd be any left now at that price (that's $153 US for you overseas folk  ). 

 

Thank you Santa and the friendly elf who had staff discount 

 

 

 

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

1 hour ago, gmrhodes13 said:

Quite a few in Myer city store here in the west before Christmas but I doubt there'd be any left now at that price (that's $153 US for you overseas folk  ). 

 

Thank you Santa and the friendly elf who had staff discount 

 

 

 

Wow thats quite the collection!!! I'm jealous 

[BigJasoni[TK]]

23 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

They could very well have been informed another supplier of helmets will no longer have a license to do so, perhaps they stepped up their accuracy to fill that gap, who knows they may be supplying Disney parks as their would be a gap in supply there too.

Lol. This goes straight back to the question I asked about being stuck on an "interest list" for four months, while receiving unlimited emails about other junk I'm not interested in.

So, it looks like the helmet is street dated for January 10th with a US price tag of $99. Must... hold... back... do... not... buy...

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

Helmet just arrived in the mail 5 minutes ago, I’ll post an update soon with plenty of photos 

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

Alright, now that I have the helmet in my hands there's a few things to address:

 

First up the good: Overall, the helmet still seems to be just as accurate as the product photos suggested, and I am very happy with its quality. Also, to my excitement, the lenses are indeed dark enough for approval! They are actually even darker than my lenses in my ROTJ TK. Although this photo doesn't show it the best, here are my helmets side by side to show the difference with the lenses:

 

 

Approved ROTJ on the right, BS to the left. Clearly there is a distinct upgrade with the lenses they used and replacing them wont be necessary. As for visibility its actually quite clear, albeit aside the slight distortion every bubble lens has. Compared to my ROTJ it is about the same amount if not less, with distortion levels. So again very good.

It is also nice to have the aerator actually be made out of metal, although that is just my own preference (I am not sure if other FO kits do this). 

 

Now for some of the downsides,

It is extremely uncomfortable to wear as is out of the box. It does the typical black series thing where it pushes your face against the front of the helmet.

 

 

However I could tolerate it in the R1 bucket, it is much worse in this helmet.

 

(R1 bucket for comparison)

 

 

I believe this is because the FO helmet uses an adjustable elastic strap that applies pressure, where as the previous BS buckets had a non-elastic strap that did the same thing. I guess it's just that little amount of added force that makes it unbearable. Believe me I made many size adjustments with the strapping and there is no way to get it to be secure and comfortable.

 

My second biggest complaint with the helmet is its weight. While the video posted earlier in this thread mentioned it, I thought it would be around the same weight as the R1 bucket. I was very wrong. It is at least twice or even three times as heavy as previous BS helmets, even without the batteries. I made some very scientific measurements using the good ol' weigh myself and then weigh myself with the helmet method and it seems to be about 4-5 pounds out of the box (1.8-2.2 kilos for my non-American friends). That is absolutely ridiculous compared to my other buckets. I have yet to tear this thing apart and gut it all out (which I will be doing for a conversion) so I have yet to see how much of that weight is unnecessary and removable.

 

And thats my review on the helmet out of the box. Now to bring up some points on the helmet in terms of accuracy, detail by detail, so I may begin planning my conversion. Lots of pictures to go with too!

 

 

Heres a better look at the tube stripes. There's actually two layers of black underneath the red on this helmet, so every tube stipe has a black backing, the three slits on the inside are underneath this backing. The stripes are also tapered on the side closest to the rear of the helmet, I don't believe that this is how the real thing is (correct me if I am wrong). The plastic is also a little thin, and looking at the on screen helmets, the tube stripes have more depth/thickness to them if that makes any sense. 

 

 

Here's a closer look at the speakers on the rear of the helmet. Nothing surprising here, but this should give a better Idea of what we're working with.

 

 

This is one thing I forgot to mention above. The teeth on the frown do not connect to the lower lip, and there is a very small gap between them. Its not that noticeable, but it is something that bothers me just a tiny bit...

 

 

On the right side (while wearing the helmet) one of the greeblies is actually a functional button for the very (very) bad voice changer. Obviously I recommend not using that voice changer, but that's besides the point. The button does not stick out any further than the same greeblie molded into the other side of the helmet, but it does have a small gap between the button and the edge of the hole it sits in. 

 

Now it's time to talk about the seams/linework/grooves/whateverthey'recalled on the helmet.

 

 

(as mentioned in the posts above) The whole lower seam is actually made from a separate piece that is used to cover the bottom of the helmet, it is removable for batteries, but more importantly for access to the screws that hold it together. I just thought Id take a picture with it removed to show this function.

 

 

(mentioned in posts above) Here the seam should go through not around the aerator. Of course the rest of this seam is flush with the rest of the helmet except for the one part that needs changing 

 

 

 

 

The last seam on this helmet I want to mention is actually the lack of one. (first image of the helmet, second a reference from a post above, and third I drew what I am talking about on the first photo).  The groove that runs parallel to the black stripe and goes from corner to corner of the lower traps is not present on this helmet. I am not sure if that would affect anyone's approval if they were to use this helmet, but it is something worth noting.

 

 

So overall I am really excited to both have this helmet and to begin converting it. I would love to have taken it apart and post it in this thread (it has a very weird construction method, believe me its overly complicated and not at all what I thought it was) However I think that would be better suited in my HOWTO thread (cooming soon!) where I will be documenting the conversion process. I'll post a link to it here when I do start it. I'm still on break from UNI for the next 3 weeks, so hopefully it'll be all finished by then!

[Sly11[Admin]]

Thanks Eric, this is awesome

[masterx244[TK]]

Am 10.1.2021 um 02:35 schrieb Ericnathan811:

--SWSSSH--

On the right side (while wearing the helmet) one of the greeblies is actually a functional button for the very (very) bad voice changer. Obviously I recommend not using that voice changer, but that's besides the point.

--SWSSSH--

Those electronic "gimmics" are probably just a "pro-forma" feature so they can slip under the toy license to avoid the mouse being pissed when they step on the toes of the 2 failures. I don't use any od the electronics features on my black series lids. No use when they are mainly for the collection.

 

Edit:

 

Posted a disassembly guide over at the RPF since someone there wanted to know how that is done.

 

https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/anyone-gotten-their-hands-on-the-black-series-cardinal-helmet-yet.336702/post-5156236

Edited January 11, 2021 by masterx244

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

Started the HOWTO. Any further discussion related to modding this should be put there!

 

 

 

[Sly11[Admin]]

Excellent, thank you.

[PanzerKraken[TK]]

So it looks like they are releasing a basic white version now, is it the exact same mold? 

 

https://bleedingcool.com/collectibles/star-wars-the-first-order-black-series-hasbro/

[Ericnathan811[TK]]

7 hours ago, PanzerKraken said:

So it looks like they are releasing a basic white version now, is it the exact same mold? 

 

https://bleedingcool.com/collectibles/star-wars-the-first-order-black-series-hasbro/

Yup, looks exactly the same to me. Thanks for bringing this up! 

 

Again if anyone wishes to use the helmet, even if it’s white, filling in the speakers and a repaint to match the armor would be needed.

All my other modifications shouldn’t be needed to get basic approval, but will most likely be needed for L2 and L3. However I don’t know.

 

As far as I can tell I’m the first person going through this process, and no one has attempted approval yet. I’m not sure if it needs a verdict form the higher-ups of FISD on what modifications are needed for each level, or if it will just be up to the GML’s.

But yeah it’s definitely the same exact molds.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

8 hours ago, PanzerKraken said:

So it looks like they are releasing a basic white version now, is it the exact same mold? 

 

https://bleedingcool.com/collectibles/star-wars-the-first-order-black-series-hasbro/

https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/50794-hasbro-reveals-the-new-star-wars-black-series-first-order-stormtrooper-helmet/