Strange CRL requirement?

[troopermaster]

I have just been made aware of this really strange ROTJ requirement. Can someone enlighten me please?

 

OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):

• Two rivets shall be present on each side of the kidney plate, approximately 4mm from the inside edge of the U shaped gasket or molded lip that is adjacent to the ab plate. There will be one rivet near the top and one near the bottom on each side. They may be painted white, or not.
• There shall be one visible snap on the crotch tab of the posterior plate, painted white.

Edited October 3, 2019 by troopermaster

[Novak Dimon[TK]]

Good morning Paul,

I’ve checked the last two ROTJ Centurion applications and there are no pictures of rivets at the kidney plate. 
The last ROTJ-TK was approved January 2018... I didn’t find a post about CRL changes regarding this point. 
Maybe Tony or Sly can tell about this point?

Edit: There was a question about the kidney rivets on October 26 last year. There was no reference found during the discussion. 

 

Cheers

Christian

Edited October 3, 2019 by Novak Dimon
More research

[troopermaster]

I'm basically asking for evidence to see why anyone would think there are rivets on the kidney plate. Only ANH and ESB armour had rivets on the sides of the kidney and abdomen plates. I'll be the first to admit that I don't keep up to date with the CRL's as they are irrelevant to me, but I find it fascinating that certain requirements are presented that don't exist on the original armour. I also fully understand that screen accuracy isn't a high priority of the 501st but I believe that's the whole point of achieving EIB and Centurion, isn't it?

 

Again, photo evidence is what I'm looking for as I know for a fact no rivets were used on the kidney plate and I'm baffled as to why this is suddenly a requirement for a higher level certification.

Edited October 3, 2019 by troopermaster

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I would suggest that is a mistake and should be removed as it's not mentioned on the abdomen and only on the kidney plate, they are however present on both on the TKC CRL so it may have been cross posted at one stage.

 

Sarah @Alay may wish to update this. 

[Sly11[Admin]]

I think this is possibly from the TK commander CRL and was copy pasted by mistake to the RotJ CRL.
It absolutely does not belong there and should be removed.


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[Alay[TK]]

That was weird, it's been there for a while too.  Removed and should be updated next time the CRLs refresh from the source (I think it happens nightly).

[CableGuy[TK]]

Thanks for mentioning it, Paul. :-)

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Be nice to see some images updated too which have been talked about many a time but seem to get missed, correct ROTJ TD and white sole boots, that image in particular catches a few people out, I'm sure there would be a few others too. 

[Sly11[Admin]]

I agree Glen, simple things like that still got missed but we need some good images and then its an easy update.

[troopermaster]

 

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Actually just out of interest and looking through one of the CRL threads about ROTJ in 2018 and kidney/posterior armor section was posted but didn't have the side rivets then? must have been added at a later time.

 

 

Kidney & Posterior Armor For 501st approval: A white flexible U shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges. A separate kidney/posterior armor is not allowed - the kidney and posterior are combined/fused to a single plate/one piece. The crotch tab of the butt plate area may or may not have visible snaps.

For level two certification (if applicable): The edges of the hip area should be rounded/curved (not like the straight lines found on the ANH/ESB butt plate).

For level three certification (if applicable): There are no visible side rivets on the kidney plate, unlike ANH/ESB suits. There are no visible snaps, rivets or brads on the crotch tab of the Posterior Armor tab.

 

 

Here's a couple of references I posted in that thread.

 

 

 

And ROTJ TD image for CRL

 

 

Also holster image should really be updated too as it's showing ANH version.

 

I'll have a look around and see if there are some other clean images for the CRL. 

[Sly11[Admin]]

Paul I really appreciate the images. I may need to do some homework on this but most of the images used in costume CRL’s are of costumes made by 501st members down to the parts break up.
Happy to be wrong on this as source material such as your screen used images are obviously the best.


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[Sly11[Admin]]

The TD image is perfect btw, definitely can use that I think.


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[troopermaster]

2 hours ago, Sly11 said:

Paul I really appreciate the images. I may need to do some homework on this but most of the images used in costume CRL’s are of costumes made by 501st members down to the parts break up.
Happy to be wrong on this as source material such as your screen used images are obviously the best.

There is someone on the MEPD who started to build an SE Sandtrooper but now might be keeping it ROTJ. I will ask him if he wants to help with photos of individual armour parts photos.

2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

Also holster image should really be updated too as it's showing ANH version.

The holsters are essentially the same throughout the original trilogy, with only the way they were attached to the belt being different. ROTJ are riveted to the belt on the right hip.

[CableGuy[TK]]

most of the images used in costume CRL’s are of costumes made by 501st members


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This has been on my mind for a while now. Perhaps the CRL should include the CRL model (as the 501st want it to look) but/and also screen reference material. All of the EIB and Centurion reviews use screen reference - seems odd that the CRL doesn’t.

[Sly11[Admin]]

7 hours ago, CableGuy said:

 

 

This has been on my mind for a while now. Perhaps the CRL should include the CRL model (as the 501st want it to look) but/and also screen reference material. All of the EIB and Centurion reviews use screen reference - seems odd that the CRL doesn’t.

 

 

I agree with what you say here Dan. The fine line is that the CRL's are designed for base level entry. The higher levels were an afterthought brought about on FISD to enhance the look of FX armour which was the only available kit back then.

Centurion itself came later on in the piece. The reason DO's have been using screen references has always been more about those higher levels and showing applicants how to look more accurate for those levels so what better reference to use.

We are not the RPF, not everyone buys the same armour make, and we are doing our best not to look elitist as we have been labeled in the past.

Yes the best representation for a CRL image  would be a screen used photo or screen capture but the more we do that at a basic level, the more we remove the 501st element from the picture. Look at what is happening to merch now, do we really want to go down the same path offering no flexibility to members who have zero interest in aiming for the top.

Don't get me wrong, I love screen accurate, but I  as always there is a bigger picture and I do try and think laterally about that.

[Sly11[Admin]]

@Glen, that's a nice crisp TD image, isn't that the one in use already?

Perhaps if we had a weathered CRL for RotJ, Pauls image could be very useful in that, but there is an obvious difference in the width of those TD belt clips from the current CRL.

If we can get more supportive images of narrow clips, there is a potential; CRL change right there. A step closer to accurate and something very simple.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

1 hour ago, Sly11 said:

@Glen, that's a nice crisp TD image, isn't that the one in use already?

Perhaps if we had a weathered CRL for RotJ, Pauls image could be very useful in that, but there is an obvious difference in the width of those TD belt clips from the current CRL.

If we can get more supportive images of narrow clips, there is a potential; CRL change right there. A step closer to accurate and something very simple.

That image of TD is what I edited for the TKC CRL. Trooping this weekend but will look for boots and others suitable for the CRL at a later stage.

[MrFlavaFlave[TK]]

Hello, I am working on the ROTJ TK that Paul mentioned and I have photos of everything I have been working on. Also, if I could make a suggestion, the soles of the TK boots should be white and that should be level 1, there should not be any black soles allowed, even for entry level.

 

I am happy to share photos and I plant to submit my costume next week.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Just an FYI, we currently also allow OTTK boots for basic on the FO TFA Trooper. There will be debate regarding the change to correct boots for that costume so no problem with similar for RotJ costume.
FO changes will be the next can off the rank so there may be a little wait before the OT CRLs get more work done. They already had a refresh this year but we will get there.


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