Kidney Plate shimming - Help Needed

[Bullseye[TK]]

I’ve made a bunch of progress on my TK the last few months and I’m getting to the point where I need to make a costume made for someone who is 5’10” and trim, fit someone who is 6’4” with a bit *ahem* of a gut.  Specifically the back and kidney plate. 

 

I mocked up the ab plate and the butt and kidney plates with painters tape and got the following photos. 

 

 

measuring, the gap between the ab and kidney plates was roughly 5-5 1/2 inches.  This means  I’ll have to shim the kidney plate. 

 

MoScOut’s WTF build has been helpful and had this great diagram of what constitutes a proper shimming for the kidneys. 

 

[EDIT - I removed the incorrect image from this post so that there is NO confusion.  The correct image is below.  You'll see that the incorrect image cost some additional time in the build process, but even so, it was a great learning device.  Still, thought I'd save y'all a headache just in case. ]

 

 

While this will ultimately be helpful, I’m not sure how best to start on the shimming.

 

1) Should I connect the back and chest plates in order to properly hang these down in order to gauge the shim off of the completed chest/back rig?

 

2) should I simply line up the kidney and ab plates and measure from there?

 

 Critically

 

3) how should I go about shimming this?

 

My plan is to make sure I have a flat surface at the ends of the kidney plate and then put an interior cover strip on the kidney plate to secure the shim. Next, mock up the kidney and abs again and use my spare ABS plates to gauge and mark how much shim I need. After that mark and cut the necessary shim. Then mix up a batch of abs paste and get to work (not to over do it, of course), the sand and polish. 

 

Are there any any pitfalls I should be aware of? Easy things I’m missing? Is there a proper way to line the ab and kidneys up?

 

thanks in advance for your help.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bullseye
Revised with revised image with proper infomration

[Triple D[TK]]

I would line up the kidney and abs and make your measurements for the shims. The rest seems like you have a handle on this. Good Luck

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

In addition to what Dave mentioned here's a decent video illustrating how to install kidney shims

---------------

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2020

[Bullseye[TK]]

I’ve attempted to iron down the kidney plate to a flat surface where the edge of the mold started to flatten out. It’s better, but there’s still a definite “turn-out” at the top of the plate where I have return edge. 

 

 

My my question is whether the it makes sense to use it as is or trim the curve off and make it a flat surface for the internal shim plate. I’m leery of ironing any more. I’ve been careful (cotton T-shirt and constant motion) with the iron but I’m getting warping at the edges and I’m not skilled enough to mimic the natural curve of the mold.  You can se where the mold edge curve starts in this photo and where the limitations of my ironing skills may cause issues. 

 

The curve exists at the top on both sides, but I’ve gotten it flat in the middle and bottoms. If I was to trim off the curve straight down I’d lose an inch on each side. 

 

Is it better to trim and increase he shim size or use what I’ve got with the obvious defects?

 

Thanks for the thoughts. 

[Triple D[TK]]

The way the pictures look I would trim and increase the shim size. Your are going to shim and put PVC paste in to meld it together. That's my suggestion. Good luck!

[Bullseye[TK]]

Took off a little less than an inch on both sides of the kidney plate to make a clean surface to glue on the shims. Measuring I needed a little more than 7 inches top to bottom, and my spare abs was only 6” and change wide. Fortunately it was two and a half feet long. Given the extra cutting and how things are going I trimmed the abs to give my the full width of the abs sheet with the length necessary. 

 

With things cut, I grabbed my E6000, magnets, clamps and got to work. 

 

I’m not sure if you can see it, but I left 5mil or so over the top of the kidney plate so that I can iron over some return edge. 

 

We’ll see how it turns out tomorrow.  If it looks good, I’ll mix up the ABS paste and cement it down. 

 

Wish me luck. In the interim, my re-glued thighs came out well. Upward and onward. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Bullseye

[Bullseye[TK]]

I used E6000 to glue the shim down.  If I let if cure for 24 hours will it be as strong as CA glue or should I use this as a test run and if it works, CA glue the shim down?  My understanding is that the E6000 when it cures is pretty strong but that CA is stronger.

[Bullseye[TK]]

Looking good so far, abs paste tomorrow. 

 

 

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Nice work Dave. Just so you know the shim needs to come down and match the lower edge of the kidney. If you had placed it where it is for the 22mm notch effect the notch will be place on the Ab side of the shim. I have an illustration but for some reason I'm having difficulty uploading it. 

 

 

[Bullseye[TK]]

1 hour ago, ukswrath said:

Nice work Dave. Just so you know the shim needs to come down and match the lower edge of the kidney. If you had placed it where it is for the 22mm notch effect the notch will be place on the Ab side of the shim. I have an illustration but for some reason I'm having difficulty uploading it. 

 

 

I actually took that into account.  This a big kidney plate. The shim lines up with the ab plate lines perfectly, that’s how I cut it. My thought was I would let the shim be the “notch” where the butt and cod plates line up. I had to trim the kidney so there’s no distance between the end of the kidney and the butt plate. I didn’t measure it to be 22 mil, so it’s probably a little more. 

 

Given that the shim measures we’ll for the ab, do I still need to reset?

Edited August 25, 2019 by Bullseye

[ukswrath[Staff]]

3 hours ago, Bullseye said:

I actually took that into account.  This a big kidney plate. The shim lines up with the ab plate lines perfectly, that’s how I cut it. My thought was I would let the shim be the “notch” where the butt and cod plates line up. I had to trim the kidney so there’s no distance between the end of the kidney and the butt plate. I didn’t measure it to be 22 mil, so it’s probably a little more. 

 

Given that the shim measures we’ll for the ab, do I still need to reset?

Shim or no shim the notch should be located as shown in this illustration. If this is what you're shooting for then you're on the right track. 

 

[Bullseye[TK]]

On 8/25/2019 at 6:10 PM, ukswrath said:

Shim or no shim the notch should be located as shown in this illustration. If this is what you're shooting for then you're on the right track. 

 

Tony - I understood the notch to be as in this illustration:

 

[REMOVED THE INCORRECT IMAGE I WAS BASING MY SHIM ON - use the image at the very top for reference.]

 

Am I going about this wrong? I lined it up like the above. 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bullseye
Removed incorrect image

[TKSpartan[Staff]]

Hi Dave, It looks like you made it as the picture "B" . If so, it's correct for Centurion.

 

Cheers

[Bullseye[TK]]

31 minutes ago, TKSpartan said:

Hi Dave, It looks like you made it as the picture "B" . If so, it's correct for Centurion.

 

Cheers

Thanks Mario. Whew!

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Sorry for the late reply Dave. Mario posted the illustration I was looking for, and if "B" is what you were shooting for than yes you're on the right track. Sorry for the confusion

[Bullseye[TK]]

14 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Sorry for the late reply Dave. Mario posted the illustration I was looking for, and if "B" is what you were shooting for than yes you're on the right track. Sorry for the confusion

No problem. Always appreciate the help and input from everyone.

 

It’s getting close! Started doing my strapping last night. Going to try to iron down the top side return edge tonight and mix up the ABS paste. Once I have the front and back re-mocked up, I’ll trim the overage of the shim. Hopefully by then my rivets will have arrived from Joseph. Should have this ready for submission by the end of September!!

[Bullseye[TK]]

Progress. I trimmed a bunch of ABS clippings into a baby food jar and then slowly added acetone to the jar and mixed until I had the right consistency. Then, using a putty knife, I went to work. 

 

 

I’ll see how it set shortly. After that it’s carefully sanding it down as getting it ready for trimming and rigging with the ab plate. 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I found it does quite some time to fully cure, the longer you leave it the easier it is to sand. Started out using course sandpaper then swapped to wet and dry from 240 grit up to 2000 at the end, use soapy water too it helps cut down the sandpaper clogging  

[Bullseye[TK]]

12 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

I found it does quite some time to fully cure, the longer you leave it the easier it is to sand. Started out using course sandpaper then swapped to wet and dry from 240 grit up to 2000 at the end, use soapy water too it helps cut down the sandpaper clogging  

Planning to let it sit for 24 hours. I had questions about the sandpaper grit so mentioning the grit in your comment was really helpful!! Thanks!!

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

8 minutes ago, Bullseye said:

Planning to let it sit for 24 hours. I had questions about the sandpaper grit so mentioning the grit in your comment was really helpful!! Thanks!!

The finer sandpaper you can use the less chance of scratching the surrounding surfaces, but ABS paste is not the easiest to sand so using a little coarse to start off with is a good option 

[Bullseye[TK]]

Quick question.  I'm going to rig up the ab plate and chest plate tonight so that I've got a good idea of where the armor's gonna sit.  I'm on the tall side, 6'3".  

 

How much chest plate overlap on the Ab plate is mandatory? With my height, the chest plate isn't going to hang as low on the ab plate as other TK's but it's also not going to leave a gap.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

[TheSwede[TK]]

47 minutes ago, Bullseye said:

How much chest plate overlap on the Ab plate is mandatory? With my height, the chest plate isn't going to hang as low on the ab plate as other TK's but it's also not going to leave a gap.

As long as there´s overlap your fine

Just some TK-awesomness

[Bullseye[TK]]

1 hour ago, TheSwede said:

As long as there´s overlap your fine

Just some TK-awesomness

Beauty! thanks

[kman[TK]]

Looking great!  I would make your top return edge before you start sanding the ABS paste.  Less stress on the clean, finished surface.

 

And yes, there needs to be *some* overlap between the ab and chest pieces.  You don't want to be able to see undersuit.  When there's minimal overlap, which is common for tall buys like us (I'm 6'3" as well), you'll want a very good connection between the two so your ab doesn't pop out as you move around.  Once you're all armored up, it's hard to put back underneath, and also hard to notice this has occurred if you don't have friends watching out for you!

[Bullseye[TK]]

Progress.

 

Haven’t sanded yet but my wife helped me measure around he waist so I could cut the excess sim off. 

 

First I mocked up the chest and ab plates (pardon the toilet in the background, this is where the mirrors are). 

 

Then I marked off and glued on the snaps

 

They’re not pretty. After basic if I need to I’m going to redo them. If need be, I’ll support it with Velcro temporarily. Halloween is around the corner and I want to get this complete! 

 

then I had my wife measure the kidney shims for me and mark them top and bottom,  and I used her marks to cut a straight edge on each side. 

 

I need reorder my split rivets as Joseph is temporarily out of service. Was planing on trooperbay for the split rivets. As for belt poppers and single cap rivets, eBay seems to be my best bet. Any other suggestions are welcome. 

 

A good night of progress and that’s not including getting the 25 mm back cover strips on my shins (which I also got done).