Early 2019 CRL update change requests

[Frank75139[501st]]

There have been specific requirements for L3 for some time, many of which are much more ‘replica’ oriented than some of the things being discussed here. Such as the side rivets on the ab/kidney;

CRL Optional L3;
Three rivets, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter, are present on the left side of the abdomen armor.
Note: The original rivets used for the TK armor were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

This is just one example, however the optional L3 requirements have always been quite involved. This would have been present when you joined. This didn’t put you off and your now doing what you wanted to achieve.

All I’m saying is, having realistic targets, based on the original suits, for those that want to aim and strive for the optional L3 should not put off people that want to achieve basic.

They were present and I’ve gone through and watched quite a few applications where people have passed with glaring mistakes and others have been kicked back to fix things.
I’m also not arguing that they will put off people. I’m just giving my opinion that it would put of me and I find it hard to believe I’m the only person in the world with these feelings.
And who comes up with these “realistic targets” for armor? I don’t think anyone in this forum was involved with original builds. All we have are screen shots and pics of one or two actual used suits. If you want it to be exact let’s call in help from someone that built this stuff so we don’t have the same few people putting their opinions in on what they feel is accurate cause they are looking at a pic. Correct me if I’m wrong cause I am new and don’t know what went on prior to joining maybe this was already done. Can anyone call themselves a TK expert? Most experts gets lots of training.


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[starsaber25[Admin]]

Well there is someone we can call in if everyone wants me to?  Paul??  FISD to @troopermaster

[starsaber25[Admin]]

Ok so listen the big bad COG is stepping in now. This thread has be derailed a few times and has gone around and around to it being almost impossible to follow. Here is what I’m going to ask. Can everyone take a break for a minute from commenting. Dan @CableGuy can you please make a summary post if everything discussed so we can make some sense of everything?  Thanks. 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Ok so listen the big bad COG is stepping in now. This thread has be derailed a few times and has gone around and around to it being almost impossible to follow. Here is what I’m going to ask. Can everyone take a break for a minute from commenting. Dan [mention=31976]CableGuy[/mention] can you please make a summary post if everything discussed so we can make some sense of everything?  Thanks. 

Fair point, Steve.

 

As my only suggestion was to discuss the brow height for ANH Stunt, I'll Kindly invite [mention=22112]justjoseph63[/mention] to help and edit this post to reflect the suggested ANH changes for L3;

 

 

Level 3 - 

1.  Ideally, the ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width).

 

 

3.  Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate.

 

 

4.  Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted.

 

 

5.  Ideally, a minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge.

 

 

6.  All abdomen buttons are integrated onto the ab-button panels/plates.  directly on the armor  No separate/added buttons are permitted. 

 

 

7.  D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type.

 

 

8.  3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also invite [mention=22112]justjoseph63[/mention] to summarise the below;

OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?

 

ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

 

I would invite [mention=16782]gmrhodes13[/mention] to edit and refine the below;

I highlighted on the first page some of the outstanding CRL’s, also been adding them as a reminder in the last few newsletter drafts, but nobody bit.

 

Ongoing CRL To Be Updated:

 

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here

 

Perhaps these can be finalised before additional work on CRL’s be continued.

 

 

***Regarding ANH Stunt Brow height, to start, I would simply ask that anyone reading this look at the photos and explanation on post #1 of this thread; (https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/46285-early-2019-crl-update-change-requests/ 

 

If we agree that the majority of ANH Stunt Troopers seen on screen display a gap between the eye sockets and the brow (much like the majority have tube stripes, the majority have a holster, the majority have 8 teeth drilled, etc.), then I put forward that ANH Stunt was "intended", based purely on the many screen shots and footage from ANH, to have a gap between the eyes and the brow. 

 

If the majority agree on this, then perhaps we could discuss if we, as a community, think that this should be a suggestion to new troopers. As the majority of seen on screen ANH Stunt troopers display this gap, I personally feel that this is a defining feature of the stunt. As such, I cannot see any reason why this could not be "suggested" from day one (basic), and perhaps requested at the higher levels. 

 

For example, "A gap is present between the eyes and the brow, as per the CRL photo."   (NO EXACT MEASUREMENTS!!!)

 

 

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

I think we have our list thanks everyone. As Joseph mentioned we still haven't completed the ROTJ from last year. One step at a time. Unless there's something so important it can't wait this thread has run its course for now. 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Just a couple of things Dan and it's all dependant on how you read, we are all different, but we can agree to disagree so disregard if I'm wrong.

 

 

Just to be a real a knob and of course I am from down under, (we drive on the right side of the road, well right being left) are the ears tilted back or tilted forward, depends how you interpret and describe, when looking at which side of the helmet , (this is known as a forward slash / )to me they appear tilting forward (greater fall from top than bottom) but no doubt I read this differently to others, but if it's confusing me would it confuse others?

 

1.  Ideally, the ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

1.  Ideally, the ears shall be tilting forward at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

 

Do we need the accurate measurement, wouldn't a pencil do? I suppose it depends on where from the cheek you measure, as it has a curve, a pencil would sit in there easier you would think than actually measuring, but again that's just me.

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width).

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than a standard pencil width from the side of the cheek.

 

 

Again it's all about how you read it, this sounded a little more straight forward.

 

5.  Ideally, a minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge.

 

5.  Ideally there should be minimum to no gap between the top of the shoulder bell and should bridge.

 

 

 

 

I agree with the brow, I've always quoted the difference in appearances between the Hero and Stunt with mentioning the brow position, Stunts should have a small amount of the faceplate (white) showing in between, where the majority of Hero helmets seen have the lower brow (although one does appear higher in pic below) but many judge the look of Hero from the iconic Promo Hero which also had the lower brow appearance.

 

 

 

Joseph looks to have ROTJ in hand so I won't interfere.

 

 

TKC photos need adding of correct option TD's (currently it's an ANH)

 

ROTJ

 

 

Game

 

TKC wording of the ammo strip placement:

"It was brought to my attention in the recent TKC L3 approval of Daphne that ROTJ armor will not allow the thigh ammo strip to sit on top of the lower ridge and cover the front of the ridge V (as seen in screen images). Looking at other makes of armor it appears it won't allow the strip to sit there either"

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable): The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH. The thigh ammo is glued and has no rivets.          TO The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH. The thigh ammo is glued and has no rivets.

 

 

ESB biceps do not appear to have hooks references can be found here: 

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable): Biceps must be constructed using the butt joint and cover strip method. Overlap construction is not allowed. No bicep hooks are present.

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Thought we were done for the meantime.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

13 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Thought we were done for the meantime.

Dan invited me  

 

11 hours ago, CableGuy said:

I would invite [mention=16782]gmrhodes13[/mention] to edit and refine the below;

 

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Just adding this last one for ROTJ updates as it has been brought up a few times:

 

There is no mention of the boot soles being white/tan and the image used of the boots in the CRL have black soles, I would think this correction would be a basic level requirement.

 

 

[Frank75139[501st]]

Just adding this last one for ROTJ updates as it has been brought up a few times:
 
There is no mention of the boot soles being white/tan and the image used of the boots in the CRL have black soles, I would think this correction would be a basic level requirement.
 
 

Look at all those low brow Tks, were the ROTJs all heros?

#askingforafriend


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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

12 minutes ago, Frank75139 said:

Look at all those low brow Tks, were the ROTJs all heros?

#askingforafriend

 

 

 

 

Some info from Star Wars Helmets

 

"For Return of the Jedi, Made 1981/82, the Lucasfilm needed a significant number of Stormtroopers for the Death Star and Endor scenes - far more than were left over from ESB (themselves hand-me-down's from ANH). They therefore produced 50 or so new Stormtrooper helmets and Armor sets, basing the design on effectively a "recast" of an earlier ANH/ESB helmet and armor. Because of this recasting process - the RotJ versions made in 1981/82 look significantly different from their ANH/ESB counterparts. The design was amended quite significantly by the prop makers in London from the ANH/ESB look (although partly so by accident) and it features a taller, almost squashed or streamlined look with thinner ears. The majority of the helmets had green bubble lenses."

 

 

"It appears there were two slightly different versions of the helmets, with the majority of them featuring rounded black frowns, Aluminium Mic tips, new RotJ Decals and Hard hat liners (left). However there are also a smaller amount that were finished differently, and these feature squared off frown-ends, resin recast Hovi-Mix mic tips, ESB-Style decals and foam lining (right)."

 

[Frank75139[501st]]

Some info from Star Wars Helmets
 
"For Return of the Jedi, Made 1981/82, the Lucasfilm needed a significant number of Stormtroopers for the Death Star and Endor scenes - far more than were left over from ESB (themselves hand-me-down's from ANH). They therefore produced 50 or so new Stormtrooper helmets and Armor sets, basing the design on effectively a "recast" of an earlier ANH/ESB helmet and armor. Because of this recasting process - the RotJ versions made in 1981/82 look significantly different from their ANH/ESB counterparts. The design was amended quite significantly by the prop makers in London from the ANH/ESB look (although partly so by accident) and it features a taller, almost squashed or streamlined look with thinner ears. The majority of the helmets had green bubble lenses."
 

 
"It appears there were two slightly different versions of the helmets, with the majority of them featuring rounded black frowns, Aluminium Mic tips, new RotJ Decals and Hard hat liners (left). However there are also a smaller amount that were finished differently, and these feature squared off frown-ends, resin recast Hovi-Mix mic tips, ESB-Style decals and foam lining (right)."

Man my friend is a TK idiot he had no idea. Good thing he didn’t do a ROTJ one.




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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

6 minutes ago, Bud Spaklur said:

Glen- where on earth do you find this stuff?

Link was passed on to me many years ago when I first started building, it's been my go to ever since , starwarshelmets.com

[Colin1138[TK]]

Just thinking out loud here...but would there be enough grounds to split the ROTJ CRL into two versions? Along similar lines to the ANH-S and ANH-H? The guys on the Deathstar,and the Landing pad had a good number of differences to the Grunts on Endor(lets call them 'stunts'?)

For example- DS guys were all shiny clean, bubble lenses, all holsters,all Thermal Dets; Endor guys were weathered, had flat lenses and a lot of them (too many IMO to be accidental omissions) had missing holsters,missing Dets, or were missing both.

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[Daetrin[Admin]]

4 minutes ago, Colin1138 said:

Just thinking out loud here...but would there be enough grounds to split the ROTJ CRL into two versions? Along similar lines to the ANH-S and ANH-H? The guys on the Deathstar,and the Landing pad had a good number of differences to the Grunts on Endor(lets call them 'stunts'?)

For example- DS guys were all shiny clean, bubble lenses, all holsters,all Thermal Dets; Endor guys were weathered, had flat lenses and a lot of them (too many IMO to be accidental omissions) had missing holsters,missing Dets, or were missing both.

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Perhaps two options of a single CRL.  If we were to do the CRLs from the start today, ANH would be a single CRL with Hero/Stunt being two options of that single CRL for example.