Early 2019 CRL update change requests

[ukswrath[Staff]]

15 minutes ago, Frank75139 said:

 

Curiosity...
When did that costume pass centurion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

 

2016 04 01 

 

[StrmTRPR85[TK]]

how does everyone feel about gaps on the ears?  

[Sly11[Admin]]

11 minutes ago, StrmTRPR85 said:

how does everyone feel about gaps on the ears?  

Now you are going down a rabbit hole that will just piss more and more people off

I advise caution.

[StrmTRPR85[TK]]

40 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

Now you are going down a rabbit hole that will just piss more and more people off

I advise caution.

We can always bring up shins 

 

but i thought bring it up just to discuss and see if anyone has any thoughts.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

59 minutes ago, StrmTRPR85 said:

how does everyone feel about gaps on the ears?  

Got a ruler? JK

[Harbinger[IPM]]

Gaps don’t bother me as much as ears that are too thick. Plenty of film helmets with some ear gap.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Guys, NOT RPF, please remember, we are a costuming club first and foremost.

Yep everyone is going to have some pet hates when it comes to CRL, and variation among costume builds, I know I do but!!  ask yourselves, do many of these small items really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I would hope that everyone here can look at and discuss what a CRL from basic and up, in the spirit of costuming should contain, because if we entertain every little item that every member doesn't like, the entire CRL will not resemble anything that looks like it was on screen.

I would also like to add, as I have earlier in these discussion that the DO's bring up anything that looks too far out of the box as a suggest to fix or even a must fix.

That being said, most of those that get the feedback from their application "DO" make those changes, without it having to reside in a CRL.

The DO's are also the guys in the firing line when it comes to back lash from CRL changes when they become too lets say, nit picky. (I used to be a DO, so I have seen this first hand.

Maybe concentrate on one item at a time before adding more and more things peeps dont like, and lets make sure we frame that item into the correct language as it would look in the CRL  and please make sure it is a change for the better.

 

Obviously this is all just my opinion and I'm happy to be proven wrong and my mind can always be changed 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?

 

ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Guys, NOT RPF, please remember, we are a costuming club first and foremost.

Yep everyone is going to have some pet hates when it comes to CRL, and variation among costume builds, I know I do but!!  ask yourselves, do many of these small items really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I would hope that everyone here can look at and discuss what a CRL from basic and up, in the spirit of costuming should contain, because if we entertain every little item that every member doesn't like, the entire CRL will not resemble anything that looks like it was on screen.

I would also like to add, as I have earlier in these discussion that the DO's bring up anything that looks too far out of the box as a suggest to fix or even a must fix.

That being said, most of those that get the feedback from their application "DO" make those changes, without it having to reside in a CRL.

The DO's are also the guys in the firing line when it comes to back lash from CRL changes when they become too lets say, nit picky. (I used to be a DO, so I have seen this first hand.

Maybe concentrate on one item at a time before adding more and more things peeps dont like, and lets make sure we frame that item into the correct language as it would look in the CRL  and please make sure it is a change for the better.

 

Obviously this is all just my opinion and I'm happy to be proven wrong and my mind can always be changed 

I get what you’re saying, however, basic is still very achievable. This should easily cater for those that ‘just’ want to get into costuming. I think this also ensures that we’re not elitist.

 

It’s clear from the passion and skill across the community that this is more than costuming to some - this is a hobby. Building a top notch suit of armour with all the bells whistles deserves recognition for those that want to go the extra mile. However, we also do not look down upon those that simply want to pass basic and troop. As with many things in life, we all have personal goals.

 

Many of the ideas above have been listed as “suggested” changes. We’re not going to bully people into them - we can use this as recommendations for those that want to build in more detail. I feel that if some of these were listed as “ideally” this and “suggested” that, we are simply adding to the knowledge bank available to new members.

[CableGuy[TK]]

OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?
 
ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/
 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

Based on the well presented evidence/reference material provided in the ROTJ thread, I agree with the changes for higher levels.

Good point in the CRL photos. For example, the E-11 reference photo STILL has the magazine end cap/plate on the wrong way round - this is not a good representation.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

36 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

OK... Don't hate me, but since we are on the subject there are other dogs in this race.  I know this is going to cause a clusterfudge, but what about these previous discussions?

 

ROTJ  https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

1) Shoulder cover pop rivets. L2      

2) Thigh ammo belt secured with 3 pop rivets L2     

3) Sniper knee secured with pop rivets?   

4) Overlap construction L2

5) Forearm with return edge?  

6) Removal of the need for elastic strap around rear of shoulder bridge?

 

TKC     https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45523-tkc-request-for-crl-updates-thread/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-634403

 

 

From

The thigh ammo belt shall be positioned on top of the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

To

The thigh ammo belt may be positioned on or above the lower ridge as seen in official references and is not rounded off like ANH.

 

Lastly, I think it might be wise to do some updating on the CRL photos themselves.  I realize that many may have been used just to have an example, but some need serious updating to reflect up to date changes, and some just look plain awful and are riddled with issues.  There are a lot of incredible L3s now who's armor better reflects a more ideal look.  Example:  giskard8 (Arthur) from the HKG attains the very definition of a CRL model in all his builds.

I know a while back that we changed the policy where weapons were no longer permitted to be shown with models (which I thought at first was strange but now I understand it completely) as they can cover up certain key areas, etc. (as in the present ANH-S pic) and are not a requirement for L1.

 

These are the some that could use the updates, and if this is decided to be something we should pursue I am willing to spearhead the project.

ANH-S, ANH-H, ESB, R-1, TKC, ROTJ.  Thoughts?

 

I highlighted on the first page some of the outstanding CRL’s, also been adding them as a reminder in the last few newsletter drafts, but nobody bit.

 

Ongoing CRL To Be Updated:

 

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here

 

Perhaps these can be finalised before additional work on CRL’s be continued.

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

2 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here

Sorry I missed those, brother.   So many to keep up with, lol!

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

I hope it isn't coming across that I want to make it more difficult ("elitist") for anyone to reach higher levels.  Many (if not most) of the fine folks I troop with are happy as clams to stay at basic approval, and I am totally fine with that!  As I mentioned before, it's all about having fun, camaraderie and doing some good at the same time!

Every one of the items I suggested (as changed in the updated list) pertain only to level 3, and not unrealistic to achieve (with the exception of the "ideal" ears and shoulder bridges/bells in some cases).  We have seen people do amazing things when they are suggested! 

They are not requirements, and of course not everyone will, but those that do set their sights for the higher levels will have a more defined picture of what to aim for.  When John/Jane Futuretrooper are looking at the basic CRL requirements they may just see the L2 and 3 ones and think "Hmmmm... I can do that"!  Even if they don't apply, they will have a better looking set of armor.

 

In theory, we could spend the next 6 months discussing them, but imho at some point we will need to 'decide to make some decisions" and set some of these issues in stone, so to speak.  My suggestions were only that... suggestions, and I am comfortable with any changes that may or not be made.

 

 

 

 

[Frank75139[501st]]

We could always just change the title to Early 2020 CRL update change requests....

We’ve already got more pages then days in the year we’ve been through. Just imagine the great ideas we’ll have by 2020


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheSwede[TK]]

Sorry to derail further but it just popped in my head: do we have the mandate to change the basic CRL for the entire Legion? 

 

Also...and this might sting a little: if we are concerned about what people persive of us (as we should) then perhaps it’s a good Idea to remove a thread that is dedicated for making fun of peoples costume.

[Frank75139[501st]]

Dan (CableGuy)- because this thread is so long and ranging from a wide range of topics, with no end in site, what if you just posted a survey to take all of our votes on the various items you and the rest of Command staff are looking at possibly changing on the CRL?

So for example:
1) Brow Height: Change the language for Centurion to state “Brow height must be 5mm above lenses”

Yes. No

2) Tube stripes:

Yes No

3) Ear Angle: Centurion language shall state “Ear angle shall be blah blah blah”

Get what I’m saying? I feel like this thread is going to be longer than all the intros to every Star Wars film. I’m thinking you just put all the proposed CRL changes to a vote to Command Staff and attachés and call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quick make a spreadsheet or something!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheSwede[TK]]

10 minutes ago, Bud Spaklur said:

Maybe we just take it down and start a new one then that are posts of all of OUR worst Star Wars costumes? Us poking fun at ourselves?

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

55 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

Every one of the items I suggested (as changed in the updated list) pertain only to level 3, and not unrealistic to achieve (with the exception of the "ideal" ears and shoulder bridges/bells in some cases). 

I think you have your answer right there, not unrealist to achieve (with the exception of the "ideal" ears and shoulder bridges/bells in some cases). 

 

If there is an exception and may be too hard for some to achieve due to either size, shape, armor or experience then shouldn’t these be worded as preferred/ideally/suggested.

 

Really easy for us to debate what’s easy for someone to achieve when we have already reached higher  

[CableGuy[TK]]

Dan (CableGuy)- because this thread is so long and ranging from a wide range of topics, with no end in site, what if you just posted a survey to take all of our votes on the various items you and the rest of Command staff are looking at possibly changing on the CRL?

So for example:
1) Brow Height: Change the language for Centurion to state “Brow height must be 5mm above lenses”

Yes. No

2) Tube stripes:

Yes No

3) Ear Angle: Centurion language shall state “Ear angle shall be blah blah blah”

Get what I’m saying? I feel like this thread is going to be longer than all the intros to every Star Wars film. I’m thinking you just put all the proposed CRL changes to a vote to Command Staff and attachés and call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get what you’re saying, however, we still seem to have a huge misunderstanding about this. I’ve mentioned quite a few times that there should be NO exact brow height. The reference material shows that the majority of the stunt TKs seen in ANH had “a gap” between the eyes and the brow. If we point people to the reference material when they start there build, this should be quite obviously a defining characteristic of the Stunt.

At this stage, the measurements argument keeps coming up which is clouding the issue. :-(

[Frank75139[501st]]

I think if you want to change it for L3 it’s fine I just think you should stay away from exact measurements on anything and take into consideration body types when establishing “gaps”



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CableGuy[TK]]

I think if you want to change it for L3 it’s fine I just think you should stay away from exact measurements on anything and take into consideration body types when establishing “gaps”



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Change what? There are so many suggestions on the cards, I’m unsure which of them you mean. :-)

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

21 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

....shouldn’t these be worded as preferred/ideally/suggested.

[Frank75139[501st]]

Change what? There are so many suggestions on the cards, I’m unsure which of them you mean. :-)

Whatever the hell the want? Doesn’t affect me at all. I think it’s ridiculous but I’m not as crazy into it as everyone else. My costume sucks, well not sucks but there are a few things I don’t like, but it’s mine, I built it and I did it myself therefore I love it. I don’t see a need for any levels higher then basic. If you want to be exact join and prop club or something of that nature. This whole thing is driving me to drink (more). I joined here knowing nothing and I learned quite a bit. I did my armor my way, no snaps cause I don’t like snaps, it’s velcro. I stuck around to be a friendly hello when people joined. Everyone likes a happy place. I was approached about the attaché program and figured it was a good way to help people and show them they can do whatever they want with their costume, there are a few ways to accomplish the same task. I’ve been an attaché for less the a year but the way things are going really brings me down sometimes. I don’t agree with a few things including the idea of submitting my armor to peers for approval. I get we have to do it for basic that’s someone that has guidelines and other people’s interest in mind when approving. It’s just my opinion and not directed at anyone just my thoughts. There is a huge emphasis on getting a higher level. I don’t see why, again that’s me. I joined to troop and meet some like minded people. I’ve accomplished that and plan on doing it for many more years. I just know when things get worded a certain way people get discouraged. Yea centurion may be super easy for some people as it is but not for others. And why does it have to be difficult?

Ramble,ramble,ramble and I’m done for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CableGuy[TK]]

5 minutes ago, Frank75139 said:

 

Whatever the hell the want? Doesn’t affect me at all. I think it’s ridiculous but I’m not as crazy into it as everyone else. My costume sucks, well not sucks but there are a few things I don’t like, but it’s mine, I built it and I did it myself therefore I love it. I don’t see a need for any levels higher then basic. If you want to be exact join and prop club or something of that nature. This whole thing is driving me to drink (more). I joined here knowing nothing and I learned quite a bit. I did my armor my way, no snaps cause I don’t like snaps, it’s velcro. I stuck around to be a friendly hello when people joined. Everyone likes a happy place. I was approached about the attaché program and figured it was a good way to help people and show them they can do whatever they want with their costume, there are a few ways to accomplish the same task. I’ve been an attaché for less the a year but the way things are going really brings me down sometimes. I don’t agree with a few things including the idea of submitting my armor to peers for approval. I get we have to do it for basic that’s someone that has guidelines and other people’s interest in mind when approving. It’s just my opinion and not directed at anyone just my thoughts. There is a huge emphasis on getting a higher level. I don’t see why, again that’s me. I joined to troop and meet some like minded people. I’ve accomplished that and plan on doing it for many more years. I just know when things get worded a certain way people get discouraged. Yea centurion may be super easy for some people as it is but not for others. And why does it have to be difficult?

Ramble,ramble,ramble and I’m done for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

 

Hi Frank,

 

It's not ramble, ramble, Frank - it's your valid opinion.

 

I understand what you're saying, and that is the beauty of basic. Nobody is forced to submit their armour for approval from their peers. Nobody is forced to aim for, or submit for, EIB and Centurion. And, from what I have seen across the forum builds, nobody is pressured or bullied into going beyond their skill set. Joining the FISD is totally optional. And for those that share your view that they don't see the need for higher levels, this really shouldn't affect them in any way.  

The Attache team and other experienced builders give constructive suggestions and advice when required. The majority of our regular helpers on FISD have a good manner with new and old members and any untoward responses or attitudes are reported.

If a new builder starts a WIP and their first comment is "I'm starting my build and aiming for Centurion", as many of them do these days, I can't see any issue with helping them achieve that from day one. It is much easier to aim for Centurion from day one, with the help of the years of build experience on the forum, than it is to aim for basic, then have to make retrospective changes down the line if they choose to move to EIB and Centurion. 

 

"Yea centurion may be super easy for some people as it is but not for others. And why does it have to be difficult?" I don't believe it's super easy for anyone, well, especially not on their first armour build. It requires research, time and effort, and in some cases a few extra £/$ on certain bits of hardware. However, it is made available to those that DO want to aim higher. Basic allows a more straight forward path to trooping, and nobody has a problem with that. 

 

"There is a huge emphasis on getting a higher level. I don’t see why, again that’s me. I joined to troop and meet some like minded people." Surely the reason that many people start a WIP thread is to get feedback or support from the community. I know I certainly did. I did my research but also valued the constructive feedback from more experienced troopers. If they don't want to take the advice, that's okay.

I also joined to troop, make money for charity, make people smile, and to live out my life-long dream of building and BEING a Stormtrooper. I could have achieved these goals with basic clearance, but choose to take my armour I high as I could. This doesn't make me any better at raising money, bringing smiles or living out my dream, it was just something that I wanted to do and worked hard to achieve. 

 

Basic clearance is not really being challenged here. Bringing awareness of what CAN be achieved, if a member wants to achieve it, is at the heart of these suggestions. 

 

Best wishes,

 

Dan

 

[Frank75139[501st]]

Like I said doesn’t affect me so I’m fine. I’ll help anyone do whatever they want and answer any questions I know the answers to. I just know if I were to get on and see centurion requirements being tube stripes had to be a certain mm distance, I’d be like eh forget that. But again that’s me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CableGuy[TK]]

Like I said doesn’t affect me so I’m fine. I’ll help anyone do whatever they want and answer any questions I know the answers to. I just know if I were to get on and see centurion requirements being tube stripes had to be a certain mm distance, I’d be like eh forget that. But again that’s me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There have been specific requirements for L3 for some time, many of which are much more ‘replica’ oriented than some of the things being discussed here. Such as the side rivets on the ab/kidney;

CRL Optional L3;
Three rivets, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter, are present on the left side of the abdomen armor.
Note: The original rivets used for the TK armor were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

This is just one example, however the optional L3 requirements have always been quite involved. This would have been present when you joined. This didn’t put you off and your now doing what you wanted to achieve.

All I’m saying is, having realistic targets, based on the original suits, for those that want to aim and strive for the optional L3 should not put off people that want to achieve basic.