Early 2019 CRL update change requests

[CableGuy[TK]]

Hi all,

 

Following on from this below thread, it was suggested to start a new thread and try with potential suggestions.

 

https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/45204-july-2018-request-for-crl-updates-thread/

 

In this case, the topic that I’d like to raise is ANH stunt brow height.

 

As a huge fan of the ANH TK, the overall, or what I believe to be the “intended” look of our beloved stunt Trooper is very important to me. As well as items already covered by the CRL, such as hand painted helmet details (or decals that emulate this), correct style hovi tips, accurate s-trim etc etc, I personally feel that the brow height is just as important, if not more so, to the defining look of a stunt TK.

 

I have prepared a series of photos below to support the theory that stunt TKs have at least 5mm (approx) or more clearance between the top of the eyes and the brow. (Around 10mm would probably be a better suggestion).

 

Now, I know that there are examples of stunt TKs with a low brow, (similar in appearance to Luke’s hero lid), and I have pictured these below. However, it is my opinion that these low brow stunts are wardrobe malfunctions, not intentional.

 

 

Example of “low brow”, hero style;

 

 

 

Examples of “stunt” style

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Below should read “bubble lenses”

 

 

 

I believe the above indicates that the brow height is intended a certain way for stunt - higher for stunt, lower for Hero. We strive for accuracy in many areas, such as the minimum and max number of tube-stripes and how far these are from the cheek, how many ear screws or type of screw for various parts, how many ear bumps we paint, and many more small details, however, something as hugely defining as the brow height is not covered.

 

I am not trying to bash those with low brow - I am simply raising that the brow, in my opinion, is equally as defining as many other elements of our beloved TK. I have discussed this with fellow troopers and some have mentioned that the low brow is “menacing”. That’s all well and good, but, does it look like an ANH stunt trooper or like a hybrid stunt/hero TK?

 

I would appreciate any and all input on this from the community. :-)

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rat[TK]]

Interesting question. I like them a bit higher on the stunt and lower for the hero personally.

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[Rat[TK]]

But personal taste aside I agree with what you're putting out there on this aspect.

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[TheSwede[TK]]

My opinion on the brow and CRL change.

For basic - as before

Expert Infantry - maybe

Centurion - Definetly 

[Harbinger[IPM]]

I agree with TheSwede, this should be for EI OR centurion and not effect basic clearance.

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Ongoing CRL To Be Updated:

 

ROTJ text updates 

TKC detonator photos to be added also wording changed for thigh ammo strip here

ESB no bicep hooks L3, info here 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Thanks for the feedback, folks.

 

Firstly, I’m really pleased to hear that the idea is not an instant no-no.

 

Based on the content of the existing L2 requirements*, I would have to ask the question -

 

Would Joe public be more likely to recognise, or relate to, the iconic stunt trooper because of;

 

a/ the brow height

b/ the number of bumps on the side of the ears (for example)

 

Personally, I think the answer, cut and dry, would be the brow height (based on the photos above).

 

Based on this, my suggestion would be that this is a fundamental part of the Stunt TK and would be a fair requirement for L2 (if not basic). After all, if a low brow is desired, the option is there as a Hero.

 

(Not trying to preach - just presenting the foundations of why I’ve brought this up and why I feel it’s important).

 

 

* Level two certification (if applicable):

•Ears shall have three screws per side, one above and one below the ear bar and one at the base of the helmet.

•Ear bars have four bumps only.

Not three.

•Traps/tears and tube stripes shall have the correct ANH TK details.

•Correct 'Hovi mic' aerator tips.

 

 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

In order to eliminate any ambiguity and make things clearer for those headed for Centurion, I am proposing the following changes to the CRLs for ANH Stunt and ANH Hero for level 3.  I realize that there were small variations in the films, but I believe these follow the general overall look.

 

1.  Ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width).

 

 

3.  Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate.

 

   

 

4.  Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted.

 

 

5.  Minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the  top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge.

 

 

6.  All abdomen buttons are integrated and painted directly on the armor.  No separate/added buttons are permitted.

 

     

 

7.  D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type.

 

   

 

8.  3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines.

 

[Sly11[Admin]]

Just remeber EIB is meant to be an easy step towards accuracy.

Not all troopers are captured by FISD who apply for basic, plus in some cases dependent on how they trimmed and assembled their helmet, it may not be possible to realign the sides and give the kind of gap you are looking for.

You certainly cant put a measurement in or GML's will have a field day knocking back basic application because a member is 2mm out.

So what would be the outcome if a member was not able to get the gap due to trim and mount etc? Would the expectation be, replace your helmet.

Also to consider, some Makers send their helmets pre-assembled, I can just see Paul TM losing his cookies over a gap too big small or no gap at all.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Some more screen used Hero buckets:

 

      

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

1 minute ago, Sly11 said:

Just remeber EIB is meant to be an easy step towards accuracy.

Not all troopers are captured by FISD who apply for basic, plus in some cases dependent on how they trimmed and assembled their helmet, it may not be possible to realign the sides and give the kind of gap you are looking for.

You certainly cant put a measurement in or GML's will have a field day knocking back basic application because a member is 2mm out.

So what would be the outcome if a member was not able to get the gap due to trim and mount etc? Would the expectation be, replace your helmet.

Also to consider, some Makers send their helmets pre-assembled, I can just see Paul TM losing his cookies over a gap too big small or no gap at all.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Roger that, which I why I used the terms "closely" and "approximately", and these were only meant for L3.  These were just a few of the items that are commonly seen in submissions, and instead of asking troopers to change them after I thought it would be easier to give them a better idea of something to strive for beforehand.  Points well taken, though!  

[CableGuy[TK]]

Just remeber EIB is meant to be an easy step towards accuracy.
Not all troopers are captured by FISD who apply for basic, plus in some cases dependent on how they trimmed and assembled their helmet, it may not be possible to realign the sides and give the kind of gap you are looking for.
You certainly cant put a measurement in or GML's will have a field day knocking back basic application because a member is 2mm out.
So what would be the outcome if a member was not able to get the gap due to trim and mount etc? Would the expectation be, replace your helmet.
Also to consider, some Makers send their helmets pre-assembled, I can just see Paul TM losing his cookies over a gap too big small or no gap at all.
 
Just my 2 cents
 

Positioning of ears wise, I hear you. This could require some serious work to correct so perhaps this could continue to be a ‘suggestion’ for accuracy that we highlight as DOs.

Regarding the brow, and specifically Paul TM, he knows his stuff and is unlikely to make stunts with a low brow. A quick glance at the pre-builds that he’s made on his FB page confirms this with ANH stunt (the the 4 or 5 I just looked at). His hero lids, on the other hand, do feature a lower, hero-esc brow.

[CableGuy[TK]]

Roger that, which I why I used the terms "closely" and "approximately", and these were only meant for L3.  These were just a few of the items that are commonly seen in submissions, and instead of asking troopers to change them after I thought it would be easier to give them a better idea of something to strive for beforehand.  Points well taken, though!  

 

“Something to strive for beforehand”. That’s a great point. Many details of the TK have emerged over the years and become common place within builds (and hopefully enforced by GMLs). If we agree on certain elements based on facts and logic, and continue to “suggest” them for EIB and/or L3, they will hopefully become ‘the norm’ and could, perhaps, be added to the CRL when the time is right.

[Sly11[Admin]]

Then you will need to make this a correction at basic approval so the GMLs are all aware it will be a lot easier on you guys and it is a fairly basic request/requirement.

Don't forget to make sure any images of the helmet on the CRL reflect the kind of gap you are looking for which may require new photos of the model and the helmet as the GMLs are told to use those images as a guide.

 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Then you will need to make this a correction at basic approval so the GMLs are all aware it will be a lot easier on you guys and it is a fairly basic request/requirement.

Don't forget to make sure any images of the helmet on the CRL reflect the kind of gap you are looking for which may require new photos of the model and the helmet as the GMLs are told to use those images as a guide.

 

Yep - CRL photo supports this already. Personally, I’d totally agree that this should be at GML level and a basic requirement.

 

 

You want low brow? Hero it is.

You want stunt - a small gap must exist above the eyes, as per the majority of screen used stunt TKs. :-)

[Sly11[Admin]]

I have very low brow on my stunt lol

[CableGuy[TK]]

I have very low brow on my stunt lol

Haha! Eeek. In that case, I appreciate your non-biased approach to what I’ve raised (no pun intended). ;-)

[TheSwede[TK]]

49 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

I have very low brow on my stunt lol

I just had to go and check In keeping with the CRL pic, you are fine Sir ()

1 hour ago, Sly11 said:

the GMLs are told to use those images as a guide.

As they are I don´t see the need to change the CRL for basic as it clearly shows a gap but it might be a good idea to emphazise it for L2/L3.

 

2 hours ago, justjoseph63 said:

 I am proposing the following changes to the CRLs for ANH Stunt and ANH Hero for level 3. 

Agreed to all and maybe ad the "no paint on posterior snaps/cod rivet to apply at L2?

[CableGuy[TK]]

   1 hour ago,  Sly11 said: 

I have very low brow on my stunt  lol

I just had to go and check In keeping with the CRL pic, you are fine Sir ()

 

Agreed. Andrew’s looks fine to me. It has that clear gap between the eyes and the brow.

 

It’s those with no clear definition between eyes and brow that look more hero than stunt. Like the below but when apparent on a stunt lid;

 

 

 

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[TheSwede[TK]]

57 minutes ago, CableGuy said:

It’s those with no clear definition between eyes and brow that look more hero than stunt.

Yes I agree to that, shouldn´t be an issue though with the CRL beeing as it is, it clearly shows a gap and the GMLs are instructed to use the Visual guide as well as the written text. However I guess there´s no harm in mentioning it even att basic.

 

Suggestion and by no means intended as a finished product.

Basic: Browtrim - A small but visible gap is required between the eyes and brow. See CRL pic for reference.

L2: Browtrim - A clear gap between the eyes and the brow.

L3: Browtrim - A distinct gap between the eyes and the brow.

[Harbinger[IPM]]

I would just say

 

L1: There should be a visible gap between the brow trim and eyes.

L2: A gap of approximately 5mm must be present between the brow trim and eyes.

 

No L3 needed as the requirements are cumulative.

[CableGuy[TK]]

I would just say
 
L1: There should be a visible gap between the brow trim and eyes.
L2: A gap of approximately 5mm must be present between the brow trim and eyes.
 
No L3 needed as the requirements are cumulative.

Like it.

Perhaps;

“ L1: There should be a visible gap between the brow trim and eyes.
L2: A gap of approximately 5mm to 10mm must be present between the brow trim and eyes.

[Rat[TK]]

So how would this affect those of us already approved at L2 and L3? Would/should we be making said adjustments or would we be grandfathered in?

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[Rat[TK]]

Also I totally agree with the ear adjustment. Still need to get to mine.

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[TheSwede[TK]]

5 minutes ago, Rat said:

So how would this affect those of us already approved at L2 and L3? Would/should we be making said adjustments or would we be grandfathered in?

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Grandfathered But if you want to be ”up-to-snuff” so to speak then making the changes would be your choice.