Early 2019 CRL update change requests

[TheSwede[TK]]

1 minute ago, StrmTRPR85 said:

can we get a quick one post recap on the proposed changes?

Do it

[CableGuy[TK]]

 

44 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

So do we have a general consensus regarding CRL updates? 

 

21 minutes ago, justjoseph63 said:

I think this got a liiiiiittle off topic in a few areas, lol, but I was wondering the same thing.  Any final decisions?

 

LOL - just a tad!! 

 

On 1/1/2019 at 10:15 AM, justjoseph63 said:

In order to eliminate any ambiguity and make things clearer for those headed for Centurion, I am proposing the following changes to the CRLs for ANH Stunt and ANH Hero for level 3.  I realize that there were small variations in the films, but I believe these follow the general overall look.

 

 

Here's my thoughts on what Joseph raised;

 

1.  Ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

Agree that this should be adopted as a "suggestion" (not a requirement) from day one, as I can't see many wanting to change them after basic and EIB. If the helmet can allow for this, why not aim for it from the start. Personally, I think this should be a suggestion only, not actually in the requirements.

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width).

 

Agreed - "highly suggested" for L3.

 

3.  Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate.

 

I would have thought this was a given, and we would highly suggest this at L3 anyway.

 

4.  Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted.

 

Agreed - requirement for L3

 

5.  Minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the  top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge.

 

Difficult due to the various shoulder bell sizes and various personal size and shapes. Use of the word "ideally" would sit nicely here. 

 

6.  All abdomen buttons are integrated and painted directly on the armor.  No separate/added buttons are permitted.

 

Agree - required for L3

 

7.  D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type.

 

Agreed - required for L3 (if we can enforce a blaster requirement)

 

8.  3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines.

 

Agreed - requirement for L3

 

 

Regarding Stunt brows, I think the images provided speak for themselves. 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

14 minutes ago, CableGuy said:

 

 

 

LOL - just a tad!! 

 

 

Here's my thoughts on what Joseph raised;

 

1.  Ideally, the ears shall be tilted back at an angle to where the screws align closely with the rear angle of the trap located above the rear of the brow.

 

Agree that this should be adopted as a "suggestion" (not a requirement) from day one, as I can't see many wanting to change them after basic and EIB. If the helmet can allow for this, why not aim for it from the start. Personally, I think this should be a suggestion only, not actually in the requirements.

 

2.  Tube stripes are positioned no more than approximately 7/16ths (1 cm) from the cheek, (a standard pencil width).

 

Agreed - "highly suggested" for L3.

 

3.  Top section of posterior armor shall be in line with the bottom portion of the kidney plate.

 

I would have thought this was a given, and we would highly suggest this at L3 anyway.  As you know, we see this a LOT!

 

4.  Posterior snaps/cod rivet shall not be painted.

 

Agreed - requirement for L3

 

5.  Ideally, a minimal (or no) gap is permitted between the  top of the shoulder bell and the shoulder bridge.

 

Difficult due to the various shoulder bell sizes and various personal size and shapes. Use of the word "ideally" would sit nicely here. 

 

6.  All abdomen buttons are integrated onto the ab-button panels.  directly on the armor  No separate/added buttons are permitted. 

 

Agree - required for L3

 

7.  D-ring on end cap shall be of a similar shape/size to the original Sterling type.

 

Agreed - required for L3 (if we can enforce a blaster requirement)  I don't see why we can't.  Blasters are required for levels 2 and 3, and are a part of the costume, so to speak.

 

8.  3D printed weapons must be free of noticeable print lines.

 

Agreed - requirement for L3

 

 

Regarding Stunt brows, I think the images provided speak for themselves. 

I edited/commented on a few.  Thanks for the input!

[StrmTRPR85[TK]]

I think for brow trim there the verbage should be "ideally a spacing" rather than an enforcement of a measurement

[ukswrath[Staff]]

OMG! hahahahaha I love this group 

[Frank75139[501st]]

I think for brow trim there the verbage should be "ideally a spacing" rather than an enforcement of a measurement

Agreed if the group is hell bent on doing this and it seems some people are we should stick to phrases like that. Anytime you put measurements in it gets too strict. I think it should be the same for tube stripes. It’s always been said pencil width, stripes are small and go on a small surface, I’ve got fat fingers, they landed where they landed. Why should one be kept from centurion due to fat fingers and bad paint skills.


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[kman[TK]]

I concur with Joseph's comments on CableGuy's recap.

 

And yes, I think mention of the existence of correct brow spacing is good to have in the CRL, so people building know what to aim for.  Keep the "Ideally" language in there, but for someone trying to go it alone, and looking at the wrong helmet for "screen used inspiration" it sucks to get that wrong, when it's so simple to steer them in the right direction.  Then no one is excluded, but they have some proper guidance they don't have to dig for.

Edited January 4, 2019 by kman

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

What about those elbow gaps?

You guys are ready to fight bit and nails for five small millimeters on brow height but don't give a nickel about 4 inches gap at elbows?!

Curious priorities in my opinion.

 

But yeah... body shapes and sizes..... convenient excuse.

 

How about this one then: disqualify "Master Replica" helmets for basic approval? Haha, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[kman[TK]]

7 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

What about those elbow gaps?

You guys are ready to fight bit and nails for five small millimeters on brow height but don't give a nickel about 4 inches gap at elbows?!

Curious priorities in my opinion.

 

But yeah... body shapes and sizes..... convenient excuse.

 

How about this one then: disqualify "Master Replica" helmets for basic approval? Haha, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

 

The millimeter language was removed, in case you missed that.

 

Body shape and size is not a "convenient excuse".  But there was a discussion of adding something about it to another section, which could be added.

 

When was the last time someone actually tried to get approved with a Master Replica helmet?  Is this a real concern?

Edited January 4, 2019 by kman

[Troopacoola[TK]]

What about those elbow gaps?
You guys are ready to fight bit and nails for five small millimeters on brow height but don't give a nickel about 4 inches gap at elbows?!
Curious priorities in my opinion.
 
But yeah... body shapes and sizes..... convenient excuse.
 
How about this one then: disqualify "Master Replica" helmets for basic approval? Haha, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Tbh, I think you have a point with highlighting basic approval. Surely this should be the focus, I mean, decal tube stripes, plastic hand guards etc. Let's start new members off on the right track, rather than asking for corrections down the line. This would bring clearance levels across garrisons closer together. No?

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

Back to the tube stripes. Most of have seen a micrometer used to measure the split rivet distance but has anyone seen or has an actual measurement for the tube stripe distance? If so let's see it or we need to remove any numbers.

 

I with Germain on the elbows we really need some wordage there. 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Tbh, I think you have a point with highlighting basic approval. Surely this should be the focus, I mean, decal tube stripes, plastic hand guards etc. Let's start new members off on the right track, rather than asking for corrections down the line. This would bring clearance levels across garrisons closer together. No?

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Indeed Marc. This has been suggested. Starting from BBB.


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[Troopacoola[TK]]

Indeed Marc. This has been suggested. Starting from BBB.


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Needs to happen mate. Makes sense, there's too many wanting to clear that are no where near a standard, but then you get the basic crl argument. You know the standards the ukg have and as an armourer the basic leve canl become an area of contention. We want our guys to look the best. However, some just want the easiest route to 501st status endorses that.

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

3 minutes ago, CTID said:

Needs to happen mate. Makes sense, there's too many wanting to clear that are no where near a standard, but then you get the basic crl argument. You know the standards the ukg have and as an armourer the basic leve canl become an area of contention. We want our guys to look the best. However, some just want the easiest route to 501st status endorses that.

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I have an issue with GMLs expecting Centurion level requirements at basic. I know other garrisons that have that problem and it's a bit disturbing. I believe it's unrealistic and takes away from those who just want to do charity work or have fun. There needs to be a balance, what that is is debatable. 

[Troopacoola[TK]]

I have an issue with GMLs expecting Centurion level requirements at basic. I know other garrisons that have that problem and it's a bit disturbing. I believe it's unrealistic and takes away from those who just want to do charity work or have fun. There needs to be a balance, what that is is debatable. 

Not talking centurion level Tony, but as I said above. Basic is VERY basic at the moment. There are troopers out there who will build to basic, and then be discouraged due to the extra work involved. I guess what I'm saying is that EIB standard should now be basic. Too many 501st garrisons out there clear on a basic level. Then you see other troopers copying their builds, which repeats a substandard build. I honestly believe that if basic was removed, then future builders would engage more with how closer they could get their kits than at the moment. Just my humble opinion, but think we are focussing on the wrong area atm

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[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

 

25 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

I with Germain on the elbows we really need some wordage there. 

"ideally no elbow gap is preferred" seems logical to me which still allows those with gaps to apply,

 

I really would hate to see people being denied for higher level approval because of arm and shoulder gaps, not everyone has the perfect shape, I know I don't.

 

I already hear us being called "elitist" don't think we want "discriminatory" added as well.

 

[kman[TK]]

8 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

 

"ideally no elbow gap is preferred" seems logical to me which still allows those with gaps to apply,

 

I really would hate to see people being denied for higher level approval because of arm and shoulder gaps, not everyone has the perfect shape, I know I don't.

 

I already hear us being called "elitist" don't think we want "discriminatory" added as well.

 

 

I concur, although I'm not sure that exact wording works.  Elbows are funny, and the armor is even stranger.  Perfect armor has a "gap", arguably, so I'd want to clarify exactly what is meant, here.  This is aimed at n00bs, not armor experts who know exactly what we're referring to when we say "elbow gap", and what we're NOT referring to.

[Harbinger[IPM]]

32 minutes ago, CTID said:

Not talking centurion level Tony, but as I said above. Basic is VERY basic at the moment. There are troopers out there who will build to basic, and then be discouraged due to the extra work involved. I guess what I'm saying is that EIB standard should now be basic. Too many 501st garrisons out there clear on a basic level. Then you see other troopers copying their builds, which repeats a substandard build. I honestly believe that if basic was removed, then future builders would engage more with how closer they could get their kits than at the moment. Just my humble opinion, but think we are focussing on the wrong area atm

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I think there is more to it than just upping base requirements, though.

 

For one, getting people over to the detachment and getting them informed. I can only speak for myself and my Garrison mates, but when I first decided to build a TK, I was lucky enough to have found FISD and realized that if you're starting a BBB it's minimal effort over basic approval (and just a couple hundred dollars more in parts) to go for Centurion from the start.

 

My friend who joined at the same time didn't join FISD, build to the base CRL, and later, when I became an attache I tried to get him to go EI. He didn't. Why? Because he ignored L2 and L3 when building (because he didn't care at the time) and now if he wants to get his EIB badge (we aren't even talking Centurion) he'd have to rebuy quite a bit of his kit.

 

As for base requirements, maybe it is finally time to move many of the ANH/RoTJ split EI requirements (such as cover strips and rivets vs none) to base requirements?

[mikidymac[TK]]

 

I concur, although I'm not sure that exact wording works.  Elbows are funny, and the armor is even stranger.  Perfect armor has a "gap", arguably, so I'd want to clarify exactly what is meant, here.  This is aimed at n00bs, not armor experts who know exactly what we're referring to when we say "elbow gap", and what we're NOT referring to.

I would agree that "suggested" on the elbow gap would be fine but should not be a sticking point. 

 

As I said earlier I am 6'3" with long arms and legs so for me to have no elbow gap looks super funny at my wrists with almost all of the glove cuff sticking out and freakishly long wrists. I can get some pictures this weekend if that helps. There needs to be some wiggle room for different body types and not just a hard rule saying no gap.

 

To give you some idea, I have the Anovos Classic TK kit and with no mods or shims I have no gap in the kidney, back or butt or any other parts but to get it to fit me I have a larger gap at the elbow and knees. Like I said long legs and arms should not bar me from Centurion.

[A.J. Hamler[TK]]

3 hours ago, Frank75139 said:

Why should one be kept from centurion due to fat fingers and bad paint skills.

 

 

Or anything else in life, for that matter...

 

A.J.

[kman[TK]]

1 hour ago, mikidymac said:

I would agree that "suggested" on the elbow gap would be fine but should not be a sticking point. 

 

As I said earlier I am 6'3" with long arms and legs so for me to have no elbow gap looks super funny at my wrists with almost all of the glove cuff sticking out and freakishly long wrists. I can get some pictures this weekend if that helps. There needs to be some wiggle room for different body types and not just a hard rule saying no gap.

 

To give you some idea, I have the Anovos Classic TK kit and with no mods or shims I have no gap in the kidney, back or butt or any other parts but to get it to fit me I have a larger gap at the elbow and knees. Like I said long legs and arms should not bar me from Centurion.

 

FWIW, I'm also 6'3" with the same armor, so I know what you mean.  Although I think your arms are a little longer than mine.

 

IMO there's nothing wrong with the "elbow gap" you have there.  There are people with far, far worse... I believe that's who the comments are addressing.  That said, yours could be reduced, if you wanted, by lowering the bicep armor.  It doesn't need to tuck quite as far up into the shoulder bell.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

It's completely doable however. this is an Anovos kit I built for someone who's 6'2". Those that have built Anovos or RS know there's not much room to spare. I could have dropped his biceps another 1/2" and moved his hand plate back slightly giving him a more uniform look. I swear the guy has a wingspan that of a 747 lol. Anyway, we decided comfort and practicality took a front seat to accuracy. And yes he's a Centurion 

 

 

[starsaber25[Admin]]

2 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

 

 

I already hear us being called "elitist" don't think we want "discriminatory" added as well.

 

 

This right here is what I’m fearing from some of the conversation here.  I would hate for this detachment to start going down this very slippery slope.

 

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

2 minutes ago, starsaber25 said:

 

This right here is what I’m fearing from some of the conversation here.  I would hate for this detachment to start going down this very slippery slope.

 

Yep

[Frank75139[501st]]

It's completely doable however. this is an Anovos kit I built for someone who's 6'2". Those that have built Anovos or RS know there's not much room to spare. I could have dropped his biceps another 1/2" and moved his hand plate back slightly giving him a more uniform look. I swear the guy has a wingspan that of a 747 lol. Anyway, we decided comfort and practicality took a front seat to accuracy. And yes he's a Centurion 
 
 

Curiosity...
When did that costume pass centurion?


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