Magnetic shin closure glue failures

[Zugor[TK]]

Has anyone had success with a particular glue on the magnetic shin closures? I followed Crickets build here :

However the issue I am running into is the glue on the outer magnets fails after one or 2 uses. When I say the outer magnets I mean the ones that are not held in the ABS pockets on the inside of the shin. I think the inner magnets hold well because they are basically surrounded by glue whereas the outer magnets just have the one surface to hold them. I have tried Super Glue, E6000, and Gorilla Glue. The Gorilla Glue seemed to hold the longest but ultimately failed after 3 uses. To be fair my calf muscles are big compared to the WTF shins I have and I may be placing a bit more strain on the magnets than I should which may be why the magnet detaches from the cover strip like it does.

I am not sure of a stronger glue so at this point I am wondering if I should get magnets or steel buttons with a threaded hole in the center and run a flat head screw through the cover strip and then place a very thin cover strip over that to hide the screw heads. Either that or make larger shins (larger in circumference).

 

Any thoughts?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Zugor

[Jared[TK]]

Are you roughening up the glue side of the magnet with a file or coarse sandpaper? Giving it some kind of mechanical bond as well?
Or what about using a strip of thin plastic over the magnets to hold them on? Something like a for sale sign plastic, to help keep them from ripping off the outside overlap


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[Scimitar[TK]]

I am using the same closure system, you'll need to do a handful things to make them work and hold. I've done four pretty long troops so far and have had no failures yet.

1. Rough up the glue side of the magnet like Jared mentions. I used a very coarse sanding sponge.

2. Rough up the cover strip area that you're gluing to.

3. Thoroughly clean the magnet and cover strip surfaces with rubbing alcohol, be sure not to touch the glue side of the magnet with your bare hands after cleaning them (I used powder free latex gloves while cleaning and gluing). The metal particulates from sanding and the oils from your hands will mess up the glue's ability to bond the magnet to plastic.

4. Glue the closure magnet on with E6000, use a magnet on the opposite side of the cover strip to hold the closure magnet in place, and then let cure for 72 hours.

 

The sizing shouldn't be a problem unless the holes you have in the shins are pulling or pushing against the cover strip magnets when you're wearing the shins. I did drill the holes a little bit larger than the magnets in my shins just for some wiggle room/flex.

[LTM[TK]]

Are you using the same magnets as Cricket?

[Zugor[TK]]

As for the magnets themselves I believe I have the same type rare earth and sized magnets that Cricket used in her tutorial.

16 hours ago, Jared said:

Are you roughening up the glue side of the magnet with a file or coarse sandpaper? Giving it some kind of mechanical bond as well?
Or what about using a strip of thin plastic over the magnets to hold them on? Something like a for sale sign plastic, to help keep them from ripping off the outside overlap


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Jared, I did rough up the glue side of the magnet as well as the plastic to give the glue something to adhere to.

 

14 hours ago, Scimitar said:

I am using the same closure system, you'll need to do a handful things to make them work and hold. I've done four pretty long troops so far and have had no failures yet.

1. Rough up the glue side of the magnet like Jared mentions. I used a very coarse sanding sponge.

2. Rough up the cover strip area that you're gluing to.

3. Thoroughly clean the magnet and cover strip surfaces with rubbing alcohol, be sure not to touch the glue side of the magnet with your bare hands after cleaning them (I used powder free latex gloves while cleaning and gluing). The metal particulates from sanding and the oils from your hands will mess up the glue's ability to bond the magnet to plastic.

4. Glue the closure magnet on with E6000, use a magnet on the opposite side of the cover strip to hold the closure magnet in place, and then let cure for 72 hours.

 

The sizing shouldn't be a problem unless the holes you have in the shins are pulling or pushing against the cover strip magnets when you're wearing the shins. I did drill the holes a little bit larger than the magnets in my shins just for some wiggle room/flex.

Great point Eric, I did not clean the surfaces with rubbing alcohol which may be where my problem lies. Its quite possible I contaminated the glue or surface with oil from my fingers weakening the bond. As for sizing, I am pretty sure the holes are pushing against the magnets as I have to push the shins together when I put them on so there is definiately some tension there. The area where the magnets fail is the area where my calf muscle is pushing on the sides of the armor. Not all the magnets fail. There are 2 or 3 on the lower part of the shin that remain intact. Its the upper magnets that fail.

 

4 hours ago, LTM said:

Are you using the same magnets as Cricket?

Lou, I believe I am using the same rare earth type and size magnets as Cricket used in her tutorial. I think I ordered mine after reading about the size magnets she used.

 

Thanks for the replies, I will start removing the old glue and sanding the glue areas down.

[LTM[TK]]

So I have been thinking about making thin cover strips for the side that has the magnets just attached by one face. Would require the holes to be slightly widened, but the plastic will be just like the other side giving coverage to all sides.

I will experiment a little to see if it can be a retro fit. Bought a small vac-u-form for dental use. Will post the process after this weekend. 

[Cricket[TK]]

Hey Peter, 

 

Kudos to you for your perserverance so far!!!  This is not the easiest mod to do to your armor, but totally worth it once you get it right.

I've only had success with e6000 holding the magnets.  Make sure they've had at least 72 hours to cure or they will fail.  I've never sanded down my magnets or the plastic surfaces.  I didn't even clean mine with rubbing alcohol.  I just stuck them on as-is, and they've held up really well.  

The only time I had to do maintenance on the magnets (reattaching them on the outer cover strip side) was after I let everyone at an armor party play with them.  I had already trooped in them over 15 times, including some all-day troops.  They must have been opened and closed as they were passed around at the armor party almost a hundred times before a magnet came off.  I saw lots of people trying to figure out how to open them correctly, and I think it put strain on the closures.  

 

On 10/25/2018 at 12:57 PM, Zugor said:

As for sizing, I am pretty sure the holes are pushing against the magnets as I have to push the shins together when I put them on so there is definiately some tension there. The area where the magnets fail is the area where my calf muscle is pushing on the sides of the armor. Not all the magnets fail. There are 2 or 3 on the lower part of the shin that remain intact. Its the upper magnets that fail.

From what you wrote, I am inclined to believe that your shins might be a bit too small for you.  All the shins I've built with the magnetic closures have play in them- meaning that you can rotate them around a bit on the shin, and they float easily around the calf muscle.  I believe that the only snug area you should see on the shins is on the lowest button where it should fit snug around the boot (but not too tight, of course).  

In addition, you mentioned that you have to push the shins together to close.  I recommend that you reshape the shin halves to meet together easily without any force.  That extra strain will contribute to the magnets failing.

 

I hope you keep us posted on your progress!   You've got this!    

[mikidymac[TK]]

Why not just use the tried and true Velcro method? I have done troops and even a few charity walks and have never had to worry about my Velcro shins.

[Cricket[TK]]

6 minutes ago, mikidymac said:

Why not just use the tried and true Velcro method? I have done troops and even a few charity walks and have never had to worry about my Velcro shins.

Velcro is indeed a viable option for most troopers!  I wrestled with deciding either hook/elastic or velcro for my closures, but neither appealed much to me. As a handler, I helped a fair amount of troopers close and re-close their shins (or adjust them) while out trooping.  I didn't like how velcro could pop open and shift, then closing at odd angles on its own.  I didn't like how screen-accurate hook/elastic/hole closures looked, either. 

 

Magnetic closures are a personal preference, really.    For me, I wanted a super sleek and clean closure that was strong, and magnets were the way to go for that.  Also, I don't like having to ask for assistance while kitting up.  With magnetic shins, there is no need to ask for help or to struggle to get them closed-  once on, they simply lock on their own, and never need to be adjusted once they are on.  And they are also very fast to put on and take off.  

All that said, if velcro works for you, then velcro away!  But for every trooper who has handled my magnetic shins, every one has said, "I really need to convert mine to this!". 

[LTM[TK]]

Doing the shins was daunting and took multiple reads on crickets how-to in order to understand how to build them. And you really should leave them for the 72 hours so they can fully cure.

 

For me, it is seeing the other TK's put on their shins and make sure they line up, and all I have to do is snap mine one and I am onto the next piece of armor.

[Scimitar[TK]]

6 hours ago, mikidymac said:

Why not just use the tried and true Velcro method? I have done troops and even a few charity walks and have never had to worry about my Velcro shins.

The Velcro option works great for a lot of people, but like Cricket I have also handled and fixed a fair amount of shins that popped open during troops (floppy thigh ammo packs are a close second). I've also seen a fair amount of photos posted publicly where the closure has noticeably failed. I will say that if you at least properly align the backs of your shins and/or give them a hot bath so that the Velcro isn't being strained you shouldn't have any issues. Most of the failures I've noted in person is when the back halves of the shins are naturally pulling away from each other.

 

That said, I'll echo the comments that the magnet closures are basically fire and forget, no assistance needed, no worries of them coming open, and you know they'll look just how you intended them to without any extra effort. And there's just something about them clicking shut around your leg that's kinda fun.  

[mikidymac[TK]]

Thanks for clarifying as to why. If i ever have issues I'll give the magnets a try. I also guess you wouldn't have to worry about it getting dirty like the velcro either.

[madmann883[TK]]

For other costumes, I've used 2 part plastic weld. It can be a bit messy, but it bonds plastic to ANYTHING!. It may be worth trying out. I used them on my shins for a Republic Commando costume, and it worked pretty well.