Linus' ANH Stunt Build (TM)

[Linus]

OK, I'm back. Had to step away for a good portion of the summer and focus on some yard tasks (tearing down my back deck, removing a portion of the retaining wall, all to make way for a new 1000 square foot stamped patio that was poured two weeks ago and then standing up a storage shed and starting another/new retaining wall on the side of the house). Busy and tired, all the while thinking I gotta knock out the to-do list out so I can get back to the armor! 

 

I finished trimming and sanding the top and bottom of both biceps. I decided to leave a minimal 1/8-3/16 inch return on both top and bottom edges for now to provide that thickness illusion. I may remove some or all of it depending on comfort and shoulder bell impact. Now I'm attempting the fitting/sizing.

I need some help determining if the sizing is right. I took a couple of photos with it taped up. As far as overlap, there's currently about an inch of overlap on the bottom (both sides) and a little over an inch overlap at the top. I had to loosen it up on first attempt so I could slide it off because it was too tight to slide past the forearm. As far as gap between armor and bicep, I'd say there's a good two fingers gap at the top and perhaps 1-2 fingers at the bottom of the bicep. Tried it with forearm straight/un-flexed as well as forearm bent/bicep flexed and it feels pretty good, albeit without any other armor on. Want to be sure I'm not making them too tight though.

 

In this pic from the top, I can easily fit two fingers in the top gap. I did shore it up slightly more than what it was when top and bottom were evenly overlapping but when I put my arm to my side, the upper portion flared out such that I fear it will push my shoulder bell outward too much so I moved/overlapped the top in a bit more:

 

In this pic, you can see it's pretty well fitted to the bottom (one finger gap when I flex) and a bit more gap at the top:

 

Since this is my first component fitting, I want to be a little cautious and avoid any  mistakes. Please lemme know what you all think.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Looking good, the offset at the top is normal for this armor. You can leave it as is and run the cover strip to the top of the outer half if you wish. I've seen others trim the outer half corner down a bit before adding the cover strip but that's entirely up to you. 

[Linus]

Thanks Tony! Yea I'll likely leave the offset length as is and bring the cover strip up to match the lowest point of overlap.

Does the fit look ok in terms of the diameter at the bottom and top? About 1-2 finger gap at bottom and easily two fingers at the top. Not too snug?

[troopermaster]

You should be more concerned about how it fits rather than how it looks. Keep the armour nice and loose to allow it to move freely on your body. A rule of thumb is to be able to lift your arms up to remove your helmet. If you can do that without the biceps restricting your movement too much, you're fine

 

Regarding trimming the biceps, splitting the difference of the overlaps will decrease the amount of mismatch. It looks like you could trim off a good 10mm from both the ends of the inner and outer halves, but you should be able to judge the amount better. I usually cut the joining strips to suit the shorter side of the inner half so the joining strips will not reach the top of the outer half (which is how most of the original armour was assembled) but you can go full length and trim to suit. 

 

I find it easier to cut the joining strips to length while the parts are taped together like you have them once cut to size, then marking them for easy identification and gluing them with E6000 to the outer halves only. Once dry, glue the inner halves in. Use magnets and tape to hold the parts together then work on something else while the glue dries (48 hours is best).

[ukswrath[Staff]]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

Thanks Tony! Yea I'll likely leave the offset length as is and bring the cover strip up to match the lowest point of overlap.

Does the fit look ok in terms of the diameter at the bottom and top? About 1-2 finger gap at bottom and easily two fingers at the top. Not too snug?

Looks fine and as TM just mentioned how it fits is just as important. Yes not too snug is key.

[Linus]

Yep, I was looking for fit/fitment feedback. I'll try to be a little more clear in the future on look versus fit.  About the only "look" factors for the biceps are, as you both mentioned (above and in TM's Hero build on FB) ensuring both halves are aligned at the bottom as well as how much return edge one decides on. I may remove the upper return edges entirely based on comfort and movement and leave that return at the bottom as I mentioned above.

On 8/6/2018 at 12:06 PM, troopermaster said:

You should be more concerned about how it fits rather than how it looks. Keep the armour nice and loose to allow it to move freely on your body. A rule of thumb is to be able to lift your arms up to remove your helmet. If you can do that without the biceps restricting your movement too much, you're fine

Regarding trimming the biceps, splitting the difference of the overlaps will decrease the amount of mismatch. It looks like you could trim off a good 10mm from both the ends of the inner and outer halves, but you should be able to judge the amount better. I usually cut the joining strips to suit the shorter side of the inner half so the joining strips will not reach the top of the outer half (which is how most of the original armour was assembled) but you can go full length and trim to suit. 

Yep, I plan to take off equal amounts from the inner and outer halves making sure it's symmetrical (no mismatch) and parallel with that outer ridge so that the cover strips retain a nice vertical alignment with the overall bicep. I'll try the "lift your arms up to remove your helmet" tip and see how they move. I had not given movement much thought as yet so I'm really glad you brought that up! It's not like I'm making this for a mannequin lol.

 

Thanks for the guidance gents! I feel much more comfortable with the next steps in trimming for fit.

[Linus]

1. Biceps:
Finally found some time to progress on the biceps this weekend. I took equal portions (nearly 20mm) off both inner and outer halves and not surprisingly, the upper edges came together quite nicely. I was a bit curious if that would be the result and although I wasn't  planning for them to match up so nicely, it confirms that the molds are fairly symmetrical.

1. Used the score and snap method with a straight edge to make final circumference cuts:
   
2. Used the scissors to cut into the return edge, meeting up with score line. Ended up cutting a 'V" shape out so that I could snap the plastic away from the core line and not stress the rounded corner so much:
   
3.  Here's a front view of left and right biceps with final tape fitting and 15mm cover strip sizing:
   
4. Here's a rear view of same. Note the unexpected/bonus alignment on top! Don't know why I'm so pleased about that... heh.
   
5. I roughed up either edge with 100 grit sandpaper making sure to not score the surface beyond where the cover strips would cover. Did the same with the glue side of the cover strip.
   
6. Here's my first glue attempt. Positioning-wise, I think it turned out really well. All edges of the cover strip are making nice contact and there are no gaps in the two halves as all edges came together pretty well given I used a straight edge to make cuts. I used a mini wood Popsicle stick to spread the E6000 evenly onto both surfaces. My only concern is, did I apply enough glue? I spread it fairly thin so as to avoid it squeezing out and making a mess. By the time I put the pieces together, it was pretty tacky, I just hope it was enough to form a good bond. Time will tell
   

Going to have to buy some more magnets if I'm going to glue more than one joint at a time. I'll likely have to put these in a hot water bath to provide a bit more oval shape to fit my biceps but I want to see how they fit with shoulder and forearm in place first.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Linus

[TheSwede[TK]]

Looking good 

[Linus]

Bought some more magnets so I can do more than one joining edge at a time.  Here are pics of the finished biceps. I can show pictures angles of where the return-edge ends and the cover strips begin if needed because I'm a little unsatisfied with how the upper return edges kinda stick out at odd angles where the joining sides meet. I realize these won't even show being under the shoulder bell but I was considering whether I should take a hot iron to those return edges to perhaps mold them down to a slightly flatter angle or contour that is closer to the cover strips.

 

Thoughts and opinions are appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

Biceps - Front:

 

Biceps - Back:

 

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Actually, you can remove them entirely if you like, Dave, as you mentioned they are not seen.  In many places the return edge looks nice but can be impractical and can tend to dig in to you ("armor bite") while wearing them.  Note on the screen used ones below that it has been removed from the tops and bottoms of the bicep as well as the top of the forearm.  I personally left some return edge on the bottom of the bicep and the back top of the forearm for the thicker look, but removed it all from the "scoop" (photo 3), as again, this will dig into you, especially since most the time your arm will be bent carrying your E-11.  I recommend removing all the tops from the thighs as well for the same reason, but in doing so don't forget to remove the edge before fitting/gluing them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Reference images

    

 

             Reference image

[Linus]

That makes perfect sense Joseph. I also left a slight return on the bottom of my biceps to provide the thickness illusion/thicker look and I'm equally of the mind that the bicep upper returns will not be of benefit from a visual perspective. Although the upper bicep is not a good example in that the return edge will actually increase the circumference and as a result, push shoulder bells further out, here's some insight into my additional rationale for leaving returns where I can, merely for the purposes of debate

• All around uniformity
• That illusion of thickness

• Can add a bit (however slight) to the overall length of that piece if, for instance, a person is taller/longer of limb than what the piece was intended. The benefit being, to reduce or minimize some of that black area (gap) between pieces, providing overall fit-symmetry.
• and, of potentially benefit which is the (admittedly debatable) centering effect on the limb. Now, I'm not sure, having no applied experience wearing the armor as yet but my thinking is, it can help to fit the limb more symmetrically as an outer layer, conforming to ones shape if there is a return edge thus enhancing the fit-appearance on the person.

To be clear, I'm not sure how much this 'centering' aspect is a benefit as yet but I can say I've seen examples of loosely fit armor 'hanging' to one side or the other like a straight pipe on ones arm where a return edge might have at least centered the pipe preventing it from leaning against one side of the limb or other... That, however, is treating the symptom versus the cause (too loosely fit armor) right? In the end, it's how you indicated, mostly personal preference as related to comfort and fit except where removal is required, just providing a few more considerations for thought...

[Linus]

Time to wrap up the bicep section with some lessons learned. On a side note, I left the 3/16 return on both upper and lower edges of biceps but I'll likely do one of two things to those return edges as I gain more experience wearing them and moving in them; A) Remove the upper returns if they, in any way, impede movement, comfort or add to the gap between shoulder bell and chest plate, reinforce the return area gap where both pieces come together with some ABS paste. Otherwise, in the interim, I'll attempt to maintain some level of uniformity by doing the same on the forearms.

 

Lessons learned:

1. When using the score and snap method, depending on how deep you go, the edge of the cut line can flare out resulting in a nice little raised ridge along the length of where the blade ran. This seems more likely to occur as your blade gets dull.
2. Don't underestimate the length of the cover strips. Measure multiple times and even when you cut, do so ever so slightly larger, then re-measure before gluing. 
3. A very thinly spread layer of glue is in fact enough to strongly secure the ends. After handling the biceps and forearms quite a bit, I'm pretty confident in the strength of these joints. I continued to use a flat edged Popsicle sticks to spread the glue pretty thinly (on both surface and cover strip). The glue gets perfectly tacky in the few minutes that it takes to spread it on and this makes applying the cover strip nice and easy. The added benefit is, I had minimal glue squeezing out from the ends.
   Note: I'm using the "High Viscosity version of E-6000 glue but I'm really not sure if that is making a difference in the run-factor or ability to spread it thinner. I just know it's staying where I spread it!
    

[Linus]

Trudging along a bit slowly of late with other things distracting me from my true goal *coughs the word armor* but I did manage to progress a fair amount on the forearms this week!

A note on trimming and tools. If you ask someone or read their build thread on their trim process for getting from out of the box to final finishing, you're likely to get six different answers from four or five of them. That obviously changes a bit with which pieces your working on but I'm no different with my growing arsenal of tools in that my answer is growing and diverse...
While I am only two components into my build, I've developed my preferred process which so far, based on the biceps and forearms size - cutting needs, has been: 

Rough trim with Lexan scissors, score n snap (if it's a straight edge since I'm not too comfortable with the curvy stuff as yet) and follow up sanding.
On the follow up sanding I use a folded square of sandpaper for small or narrow areas of work, a flat piece on the workbench surface, a small file set for tight work, a handy sanding sponge for cleaning up edges and rotary sanding tools for the larger areas needing removal.
On the rotary sanding tools (see the big bench model I posted a pic of earlier in my thread), it just feels more natural for me to have the sanding device mounted and steadfast while I move the armor piece about on the tool (as opposed to moving the tool over the armor). This seems to afford me more control and I can take off very small amounts whereas, when I've tried the dremel in-hand, I don't feel as comfortable or confident (or practiced). To that end, the curved areas of the forearm armor are a bit smaller than the biceps so I was looking for sanding drum size options to allow me to handle slighter curves and found the following inexpensive kit:

These drums come in the normal dremel size 3/4?, 1 inch, 1.5 inch and a 2 inch drum with both 80 and 120 bit sand paper. The only problem I had to overcome, given my preference for static mounted sanding tools was, the larger drum bits were too thick to fit in the  dremel so I had to attach them to a drill. My cordless drill would have mounted to something just fine but I found the RPM to be a bit faster than what I need for plastic work so I pulled out an old workhorse of a drill I've had for years and mounted that to a jig. I was able to leverage the smaller drums to form up a finished return edge for the upper forearms and fine tune the lower forearm - wrists without taking any length from them. Works great!

 

 

2. Forearms:

 

1. Started off already having trimmed the forearms with Lexan scissors (removing the extra mold plastic).
2. Next I used the 2 inch sanding drum to sand down the upper forearm return edge. I ended up leaving about 3/16 or so return which is pretty uniform with what I did on biceps (no pics of the inner-upper half but I'll show a finished product pic further down in this section).
   Here's a picture of the upper-outer forearm half. This was a combination of 2 inch drum and small file set for the bridge area, curves.
    
    
3. On the wrists, I experimented with that "no return edge" requirement for Centurion a bit. I wanted to see if I could leave a slight knurl-edge that would not show as a return but perhaps leave as much length as possible, have a nice rounded edge that would not be rough on the wrist and strengthen the wrist edge too. Unfortunately, all that work was for not because it still showed up as a return edge, however slight (see below). In the end, I ended up removing the return edge. That 2 inch drum made both processes pretty easy.
   Prepping the "Knurled" edge:
   
   
   You can still see a slight return edge on the finished product (left hand side of pic), preparation using rounded files (on right hand side of pic):
   
    
4. Final cuts to circumference was using the score n snap method with a slight difference in how I did the biceps. Instead of clamping to the table, because they're longer and have a bevel-curve to the shape, I "free-float" clamped them to the ruler. I learned this from another build thread and it was very helpful - sorry I can't recall the reference:
   
    
5. Next was to cut 15 mm cover strips for both front and back of each forearm. A little note on cheating the cover strip size here. The upper edges of the forearm that will join together have that ridge that the cover strip sits on and, as it's likely with most kits, that ridge gets wider as it it goes up the forearm to match the overall width and shape of one's arm. Since I didn't want to modify the width of the upper forearm here and risk a more 'cylindrical' look I was hoping for that ridge and the cover strip edge to be pretty uniform for a nice clean look so I cut my 15 mm cover strips ever so slightly wider on one end. They're 15 mm at the wrist and gradually go to 16/17 mm width at the upper forearm. This only partially accomplished what I intended because there is still a greater area between the ridge-edge and the cover strip edge but I knew any more than 2 mm and it would be noticeable (and deviate from cannon) so I decided to compromise with a slight imperceptible alteration. Not sure if it's much of an improvement. My final photos, soon to follow because the inner halves are still drying, will hopefully tell that story 
6. Last step was to glue em together. I'll upload some pics of the gluing and final product shortly.

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Linus

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Interesting technique regarding how you trimmed the return edge. Looks great so far 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Nice work, I find using a block of wood with sandpaper wrapped around can help with getting nice straight lines for the butt joins.

 

Interesting use of the files, I use a rotary tool attachment, gets in nice and tight in the corners.

 

 

The drum sanding roller attachment can save a lot of time when trimming and sanding  

 

Keep up the great work.

 

 

[Linus]

Here are the finish pics of forearms. Overall, I think they turned out pretty well. I had the cover strip on the left-front forearm, upper portion shift while drying. Figured out why; the 7/8 magnets were just a bit too wide for the left forearm - inner cover strip ridge (which is ever so slightly slimmer than the right forearm) and this caused the magnets to push the two pieces apart within that raised ridge area, leaving the cover strip offset on the upper portion. While it's not absolutely necessarily, I'm going to add inner cover strips as well to reinforce and fill in that inner ridge area opposite the outer cover strip.

 

Top View:

 

Wrist View:

 

Outer Forearm:
I love the tapered shape of these molds!  

 

Inner Forearm:

 

 

Forearms lessons learned:

1. The cover strip area (where the upper forearm has a ridge of sorts for the cover strip to run along) having been trimmed down to align with 15 mm cover strips, is too narrow for my 7/8 magnets to fit flat. On the second forearm, this resulted in the two halves spreading a part underneath the cover strip due to the magnets pushing outward on the narrow channel. If I were to glue the narrow areas such a forearm again, I'd look for square magnets (or smaller round ones) that fit within the 15 mm / 1/2 channel.

Note: Found some! Bought 16 - 1"x.5"x1/8 square magnets (which I'll likely use on the shins).

[TheSwede[TK]]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 5:51 AM, Linus said:

I love the tapered shape of these molds!

Paul has made a truly beautiful set of armor

[CableGuy[TK]]

Beautiful work so far. Really nicely documented, too. 

[Linus]

14 hours ago, TheSwede said:

Paul has made a truly beautiful set of armor

Yes he has! Lovin it so far! 

 

12 hours ago, CableGuy said:

Beautiful work so far. Really nicely documented, too. 

Thanks Dan, truly appreciate the praise given your work and experience! #BigFan

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Nice work, coming along great

[Linus]

ThankYeSir!

[Linus]

3. Shins/Calves:

 

A note on Shin Pieces. I ordered an XL Shin with my TM kit which is 17" giving me plenty of length to trim if needed and I'm 6'2.

 

I'm well into the left Shin/Calf trimming and measuring but I don't want to go much further without clarifying a few things. I'll attempt to frame up the question(s);
For length's sake, how low should shin/calf sit on the upper calf leg to allow for movement and bending of the leg as I walk? I'm attempting a tape-fitting, with under armor and boot on and my preference is to move the calf up into the bend behind my knee but then I have to drop it some in order to actually bend my knee.
Is there a rule of thumb on how far back your lower leg should be able to move? 
I noticed in a few references, there is a fair bit of black showing behind the knees between the thigh and calf. In fact, a number of the movie photos show the left thigh to be a bit shorter than the right to make room for the sniper knee (which also seems to have them shifting the calf downward to make room for this too). My instinct is to minimize this gap but not to the point of compromising movement. So, what's a good compromise between minimizing black and being able to bend far enough to walk decently without looking like C-3PO hobbling about?

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insights!

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Linus

[ukswrath[Staff]]

18 minutes ago, Linus said:

3. Shins/Calves:

 

A note on Shin Pieces. I ordered an XL Shin with my TM kit which is 17" giving me plenty of length to trim of needed and I'm 6'2.

 

I'm well into the left Shin/Calf trimming and measuring but I don't want to go much further without clarifying a few things. I'll attempt to frame up the question(s);
For length's sake, how low should shin/calf sit on the upper calf leg to allow for movement and bending of the leg as I walk? I'm attempting a tape-fitting, with under armor and boot on and my preference is to move the calf up into the bend behind my knee but then I have to drop it some in order to actually bend my knee.
Is there a rule of thumb on how far back your lower leg should be able to move? 
I noticed in a few references, there is a fair bit of black showing behind the knees between the thigh and calf. In fact, a number of the movie photos show the left thigh to be a bit shorter than the right to make room for the sniper knee (which also seems to have them shifting the calf downward to make room for this too). My instinct is to minimize this gap but not to the point of compromising movement. So, what's a good compromise between minimizing black and being able to bend far enough to walk decently without looking like C-3PO hobbling about?

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insights!

 

 

1. For length's sake, how low should shin/calf sit on the upper calf leg to allow for movement and bending of the leg as I walk?

A. It varies from trooper to trooper and you really won't know how it effects you until you wear them around. I'll leave you with a reverence photo. This should give you some idea.

 

 

2. Is there a rule of thumb on how far back your lower leg should be able to move? 

A. No, but it helps if you have enough flexibility to climb stairs. 

 

3. So, what's a good compromise between minimizing black and being able to bend far enough to walk decently without looking like C-3PO hobbling about?

A. You can trim out the a good majority of the rear lower and still be acceptable at Centurion. Here's another reference photos (you may have see these already)

[Linus]

Yep, thanks Tony. Seen those and I'd add a wider view of the one you have above with a few more standing to the left which really calls out how much the gap varies in the movie. From left to right: Trooper #1 has significant gap on left leg, #2 has minimal gap that looks the best (and probably hobbles about a lot), #3 has significant gap on both legs, and #4 has a very nice minimal on both (but probably rubs pieces together every time he walks).

 

With your input, I think I'll wait to trim the length and determine positioning on the lower leg until I can get the thigh and sniper knee in place, then pick the position that allows adequate movement - walking and climbing steps with as minimal gap as possible. 

 

On another note. I forgot to ask about fitment. circumference-wise. I haven't been able to find much referencing the fit on the calves, unlike the arms, thighs and torso. I know to fit the pieces on my leg and shore them in to my size and shape using tape, then measure the excess the needs to be trimmed (I actually use the ukswrath-anovos method of overlap-measurement-divide by half-cut) so to be clear on fitment, I'm looking for how snug or loose the piece should be not the contour to my leg - shape.
I'm guessing I can have the calves a bit more snug as compared to other pieces?  or should it be loose and leverage the boot to somewhat hold it up leaving a finger or two gap and shore up inside with foam. etc. ?

 

Sorry if I see to be beating this one to death. With each component, I go back to my list of build favorites and scour through that section, taking note of any significant influences and tips. If I don't find references (and I dig a fair amount) I like to call them out in my build with the hope of filling in gap on topics not often discussed and of particular interest to a newer builder (like myself).

Edited September 23, 2018 by Linus

[TheSwede[TK]]

30 minutes ago, Linus said:

I haven't been able to find much referencing the fit on the calves,

I think the pics above answer that question pretty good, nice and tight at the boot and fairly snug around the leg, no need for the shin to be moving so tight is the way to go, in relation to the lower thigh of course