Suspend's Doopydoo's E11 (with T-Jay's Kit + Suitcase Props) Build

[wook1138[TK]]

21 minutes ago, Dracotrooper said:

Can someone shed light on LEA from stinky (toxic fumes) to no smell - this will be helpful for builders to know with confined spaces and people near by


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I can't shed much light on this but... if you have no choice but to paint indoors or in a confined space (and you really shouldn't, but, we all want kick-butt looking helmets and blasters) I would highly recommend acrylics.  I use Vallejo acrylics (model air and model color).  I believe they have some additives in them (versus traditional artist's acrylics) that give a mild smell, but not bad.  Of course, if you are using an airbrush (and you pretty much have to as I do not believe this comes in a spray can) you will get more of the paint atomized or airborne and therefore more stinky, but sometimes painting by brush is just not feasible.  Regardless of brand, keep in mind when spraying paint that some colors contain more toxins than other colors (i.e. Cadmium-based colors).

 

Personally, in my limited experience, I have not come across anything out of a spray can that doesn't stink (I assume this is due to the propellant that is used).  Especially any lacquer or enamel as most of these stink even when painting by brush.

 

I feel like I'm hijacking your thread, Mark.  Sorry.

[Dracotrooper]

13 minutes ago, wook1138 said:

I can't shed much light on this but... if you have no choice but to paint indoors or in a confined space (and you really shouldn't, but, we all want kick-butt looking helmets and blasters) I would highly recommend acrylics.  I use Vallejo acrylics (model air and model color).  I believe they have some additives in them (versus traditional artist's acrylics) that give a mild smell, but not bad.  Of course, if you are using an airbrush (and you pretty much have to as I do not believe this comes in a spray can) you will get more of the paint atomized or airborne and therefore more stinky, but sometimes painting by brush is just not feasible.  Regardless of brand, keep in mind when spraying paint that some colors contain more toxins than other colors (i.e. Cadmium-based colors).

 

Personally, in my limited experience, I have not come across anything out of a spray can that doesn't stink (I assume this is due to the propellant that is used).  Especially any lacquer or enamel as most of these stink even when painting by brush.

 

I feel like I'm hijacking your thread, Mark.  Sorry.

 

Thanks a bunch Greg - I will lean towards acrylics than, whenever possible and if spraying heavily lacquer based paints, make sure to paint with the garage door open as my workbench is in there. Thank you Mark for opening the discussion.

[Suspend]

59 minutes ago, wook1138 said:

I feel like I'm hijacking your thread, Mark.  Sorry.

Definitely don't feel like you are hijacking my thread.  I want to open this discussion about paint.  I'm also less than happy with most of the hammered spray paints available at hardware stores.  Even when I purchase the exact same hammered/wrinkle paint as someone else, my results are quite different.  I imagine that has to do with the thickness of the spray (how thin the layers are sprayed) as well as temp and humidity.

 

Most of the time I'm spraying inside my closed garage.  It's a bit drafty so the smell dissipates reasonably quickly.  But because it's winter, I have a hard time getting the garage above 14 degrees right now (57 Fahrenheit) so that's not an ideal situation either.  It's dry right now, humidity around 30%.  Sometimes I'll spray and then bring the part inside to dry but I haven't really seen any difference when I do that.

 

Mark

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Suspend
Cleaned up grammer

[Suspend]

2 hours ago, Dracotrooper said:

Can someone shed light on LEA from stinky (toxic fumes) to no smell - this will be helpful for builders to know with confined spaces and people near by
 

 

I can tell you that I've been sticking with the Tamiya TS paints because they are readily available and look nice, but they produce quite a smell.  I've also tried Rust-oleum Hammered, Tremclad Hammered and VHT Wrinkle Plus and none of these smelled anywhere near as bad as the Tamiya.  However, I wasn't that happy with any of these wrinkle paints.

 

The Rust-oleum Hammered has a very high gloss finish and what I would call "minor" surface hammer texturing.

 

The Tremclad Hammered has a glossy finish with more of a "pitted" effect which still looked nice.  However, after painting a coat of matte black over top, the pitting I saw really was an effect.  There was almost no actual texture and it was hard to tell the difference between it and just a straight matte black with no hammer underneith.

 

The VHT Wrinkle Plus had me the most excited from what I saw from Tennantlim's Build (Check out the link).  But after priming and painting a piece of scrap plastic, then waiting the full 48 hours dry time, I saw no wrinkle effect.  Even though that's what Tennantlim used.

 

Those appear to be the only Hammered/Wrinkle paints that are available in hardware stores in my area. (Home Depot / Canadian Tire / Rona).

 

Mark

 

[wook1138[TK]]

I hear you.  My garage is -5°C.  I do all my spray painting in the summer.  Time for a heated garage.  Stupid Saskatchewan.   Anyhoo...

 

I would recommend trying the following:

• on a new scrap piece, spray on a very light coat
• Wait about 15 min (you might want to take it inside but you should be okay at 14 degrees)
• spray on another light coat
• wait about 15 to 20 min
• then spray on a heavier coat.  You want to watch where the spray is hitting the surface.  you want to see the paint coating the surface and looking wet and smooth.  There is a fine line here before it will run, so it may take a few tries to get a feel for it.  Keep the can fairly close to the piece (whatever it says on the can) and use quicker strokes if need be.

I found with the hammered paint that it needs to be a bit thicker (at least with the stuff I had).  The light coats will help the heavy coat bond to the surface better.  You can add another coat if you like - I would take it inside and let it dry for about an half hour or more before doing so. 

 

When I did my hammered paint, it was about 14°C (or less) as well.  I kept the piece and paint inside whenever possible.  Not sure if it really helped but worth a shot.

 

Hopefully this helps.

[Dracotrooper]

1 minute ago, Suspend said:

 

I can tell you that I've been sticking with the Tamiya TS paints because they are readily available and look nice, but they produce quite a smell.  I've also tried Rust-oleum Hammered, Tremclad Hammered and VHT Wrinkle Plus and none of these smelled anywhere near as bad as the Tamiya.  However, I wasn't that happy with any of these wrinkle paints.

 

The Rust-oleum Hammered has a very high gloss finish and what I would call "minor" surface hammer texturing.

 

The Tremclad Hammered has a glossy finish with more of a "pitted" effect which still looked nice.  However, after painting a coat of matte black over top, the pitting I saw really was an effect.  There was almost no actual texture and it was hard to tell the difference between it and just a straight matte black with no hammer underneith.

 

The VHT Wrinkle Plus had me the most excited from what I saw from Tennantlim's Build (Check out the link).  But after priming and painting a piece of scrap plastic, then waiting the full 48 hours dry time, I saw no wrinkle effect.  Even though that's what Tennantlim used.

 

Those appear to be the only Hammered/Wrinkle paints that are available in hardware stores in my area. (Home Depot / Canadian Tire / Rona).

 

Mark

 

 

I too am on the Canadian West Coast - I too looked into the hammer paints and have only, like you have, come across Rust-oleum, Tremclad Hammered (purple can right?) and that VHT Wrinkle Plus (from Lordco Auto parts). Think that's all the options available here. I checked also: Slegg Lumber, Home Hardware, Walmart, Cloverdale paint, Lowes .... same three cans.

 

I too was impressed with Tennatlim's paint job; mind you he did it in Indonesia during the summer, where temperature is upwards of 26 degrees Celsius - Greg presents an interesting technique for us in the arctic cold! I think I will wait until Summer!

[wook1138[TK]]

19 minutes ago, Suspend said:

The VHT Wrinkle Plus had me the most excited from what I saw from Tennantlim's Build (Check out the link). 

That is a really nice finish!  The paint looks almost more orange-pealed than hammered.  This happens when you hold your can far enough away from the piece that the paint actually dries a bit before hitting the surface and leaves tiny bumps that don't level out during drying (helps if it is hot and/or dry where you are painting). 

 

9 minutes ago, Dracotrooper said:

interesting technique for us in the arctic cold! I think I will wait until Summer!

Ha, yes!  The very reason my bucket does not have a plastidip (or otherwise) interior. 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Hi guys,

 

Just following your paint talk. If I did mine again, I’d be tempted to spray my hammered effect black a little thicker. It looked fine on its own, however when I coated with the top coat of Matt black, a lot of the hammered detail was lost. Definitely worth experimenting with whatever you end up with, but also with a top coat. 

 

Dan :-)

[T-Jay[TK]]

Yep, the more layers you add, the less remains from the texture underneath it. That is another reason to skip the clear coat, Mark.

My wrinkle paint turned out far to glossy and I had to dull it down with a layer of black. So I just added a very very thin coat to get this effect and safe as much as possible from the wrinkle texture.

[Suspend]

On 2/27/2018 at 12:54 PM, wook1138 said:

I would recommend trying the following:

• on a new scrap piece, spray on a very light coat
• Wait about 15 min (you might want to take it inside but you should be okay at 14 degrees)
• spray on another light coat
• wait about 15 to 20 min
• then spray on a heavier coat.  You want to watch where the spray is hitting the surface.  you want to see the paint coating the surface and looking wet and smooth.  There is a fine line here before it will run, so it may take a few tries to get a feel for it.  Keep the can fairly close to the piece (whatever it says on the can) and use quicker strokes if need be.

One thing I'm beginning to notice with these Tremclad/Rust-oleum hammer paints is that they seem to also rely on "tricks" to make the paint look hammered.  I imagine they are using different pigments in the paint where bright colored (silver) pigments float to the top (after spraying) and darker colored (gray) pigments sink to the bottom.  This really gives the appearance of hammered silver surface but doesn't actually "texture" the surface.

 

Wook1138 mentioned doing a heavier coat and the manufacturer also recommends one heavy coat but whenever I do a heavier coat, the texture is gone.  The paint still looks somewhat hammered when it dries but there is no surface detail.  So if you cover it with a coat of flat black, your "apparent" hammer finish is gone.

 

I found found (at least with these two hammered paints) that 3 to 6 very light coats, separated by 15 minutes, seem to leave much more of a hammered texture in the surface of the paint.  The Tremclad having more of a pitted/dimpled texture and the Rust-oleum being more of the traditional hammered texture.

 

I'm going to run a few tests and I'll post my results....

 

Mark

 

[Suspend]

On 2/27/2018 at 11:40 PM, T-Jay said:

Yep, the more layers you add, the less remains from the texture underneath it. That is another reason to skip the clear coat, Mark.

My wrinkle paint turned out far to glossy and I had to dull it down with a layer of black. So I just added a very very thin coat to get this effect and safe as much as possible from the wrinkle texture.

That's an interesting point, T-Jay.  My thinking was that I should go for a hammered silver as the base coat.  This way I get the hammer texture and at the same time get the silver undercoat.  Then cover with a matte black.  This way I could sand through some of the black and reveal the silver underneath as weathering.  But perhaps it's the matte black that is causing the loss in detail.

 

Hmmm......that's another test to run....

 

Mark

 

[wook1138[TK]]

3 minutes ago, Suspend said:

I found found (at least with these two hammered paints) that 3 to 6 very light coats, separated by 15 minutes, seem to leave much more of a hammered texture in the surface of the paint.  The Tremclad having more of a pitted/dimpled texture and the Rust-oleum being more of the traditional hammered texture.

Interesting.  I originally tired using several light layers - it is where I accidentally sprayed to much is where the texture seemed best (Rust-oleum). 

[Dracotrooper]

Very interesting deep dive about paints - look forward to seeing test results, thank you for the hard work gentlemen


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[Suspend]

So, I've got a couple of tests to share.  Sorry the photos aren't the best...

 

Ok, my first sample is the Silver Tremclad Hammer paint.  I did 3 light coats about 15 minutes apart.  This was the first one I painted, maybe a week ago.  I liked the look of this one.  A dimpled/pitted finish.  But once I hit it with a light coat of Testors Matte Black, the detail was gone.  The surface just wasn't textured enough to survive.

 

 

 

The next one was the Rust-oleum Hammer Paint, Antique Pewter.  Again, 3 light coats, 15 minutes apart.  I had painted a scrap of this a few days ago and I hit this one with a really light coat of Testors Matte Black.  A bit of the texture remained, but not a whole lot.

 

 

 

I think I'd like to test the Tamiya Matte Black as well to see if it applies any thinner.  Maybe it will preserve more of the surface detail from the hammered paint.   I used the Tamiya Matte Black for the counter and power cylinders, but I think I'd call it more of a satin finish rather than a true matte so I was leaning away from using it for the receiver.  More tests to follow....

 

Mark

[T-Jay[TK]]

Hey Mark, maybe try some ultra fine sand paper on that black paint of your test pieces. This could highlight the texture again and might lead to a satisfying result...

 

If that does not work, I keep my fingers crossed for your test with the Tamiya paint. I found their type of spray cans to have different atomizers than other spray cans. Meaning, it provides a much finer "spray fog" than all other cans I ever used. This could help to get a very thin layer of black onto your textured surface.

[CableGuy[TK]]

Hi Mark,

I’ve only painted one blaster so far, but found I had three distinct finishes, which I believe is based on the amount of top coat I added.

In the picture below, you’ll see that the folding stock has a distinctly mottled effect, much more so than the barrel next to it. For this piece, I followed the same process as I was doing for all “metallic” parts of the blaster; primer > metallic silver > hammered black > Matt black.



However, when I sprayed the Matt black over the hammered effect, I think I went too heavy and lost some of the hammered effect - it looked very flat and lifeless to me. So. I simply sprayed, from a distance, a light coat of hammered OVER the Matt black. That is the end finish that you now see on the folding stock.
To me, it as a slight “rusted” feel to it.

My favourite finish on the blaster is the end cap. I used the same coating process as before, primer > metallic silver > hammered black > Matt black,
but applied a lighter top coat of Matt black. This, to me, left a much nicer finish.

My least favourite part would be the main barrel, especially around the t-tracks. To get enough paint coverage in and around the t-tracks, I had to apply a thicker top coat of Matt black. As such, the hammered effect is very minimal around the front end if the blaster but does improve around the middle and rear.

Hope that makes sense to a degree. In short, the quantity of top coat (applied over the hammered effect) can make a big difference.

Dan. :-)




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Edited March 2, 2018 by CableGuy

[Suspend]

Hey guys, I'm really loving all the paint comments.  It's great to get a "collective" opinion from people who have experience.  Ultimately, it's up to you (the builder) as to how much work you are willing to put in what what paints you have available.

 

I ran a few more "tests" and managed to get some "wrinkle" results with the VHT Wrinkle Plus.  Maybe I should have read the directions first.  

 

So, it appears as though some paints work differently.  The Rust-oleum and Tremclad seem to kind of "spit" out the paint for a textured surface (not a fine mist) and then rely on different paint densities and reflections to give an apparent hammered effect.  Doing several light coats (with a bit of dry time in between) gives more "spit" and as a result, more texture.  The VHT is different.  It seems to rely on a "constriction" effect as the paint dries to form ridges.  It goes on smooth and wrinkles over time.  I got fairly major wrinkle results following the manufacturers directions.  Spray a heavy coat, wait 5 minutes, spray a heavy coat at a different angle, wait 5 minutes, spray a third heavy coat at another different angle, then wait two hours.  After 2 hours you should see a wrinkle effect.  If you don't, you need heavier coats.  Then you have to wait 48 hours for the paint to completely dry.

 

Here's what I saw:

 

 

Now, I think I know why they call this a Wrinkle effect, not hammered.  I would describe hammered as little pits or dents or bumps in the paint.....either as a texture or as an effect.  This wrinkle paint I would describe as tiny little lines all over the paint.  Almost as if someone took an X-Acto knife and put billions of tiny cuts in the paint, all perfectly straight but going different directions and probably 1/2 mm in length.  It's an interesting effect, but maybe too much?  I wonder what lighter coats would look like?

 

From what I'm learning from hammered paints, probably a lot of this wrinkle texture is coming from the hard reflections from the gloss paint.  Hitting it with matte black or a matte clear coat should really reduce the wrinkle appearance...

 

 

It kind of hard to capture in a photograph.  It looks ok.  Kind of different.  You could probably get a nice texture with more experience.  But here's my concern, if the VHT Wrinkle Plus needs 2 or 3 heavy coats to wrinkle, that will probably decimate any detail in the resin.  I don't think I want to take that chance.  This might be the type of thing you apply in a few areas to look like rough metal and probably not something you want to spray over the entire barrel.   I think I'll stick to the hammered paint and just end up with a less "textured" finish.

 

Mark

 

[wook1138[TK]]

Wow, nice work Mark! 

 

These "directions" you speak of... never heard of them.   

[T-Jay[TK]]

The result of your wrinkle paint looks absolutely correct, Mark.

You have exactly followed the instructions and got the same surface and glossy finish, that I once had. You can reduce this by adding a very thin layer of black paint.

[Suspend]

Update : Paint

 

Ok, I can't believe I've burned a week and a half (evenings) just testing paint.  Enough.  I have a game plan....if anyone follows this for their build, this is what I'm doing....

 

 

 

(I'll update this image if/as things evolve)

 

Counter, Power Cylinders = 1, 2

Handle Grip = 1, 4, 5

Handle (non-grip) = 1, 2, 9

Stock, End Cap, Trigger Guard = 1, 3, 2

Scope = 1, 2 with weathering of 6, 7

Receiver Tube = 1, 2

Bolt Area = 1, 9 with weathering of 8, 7

The T-Tracks = 1, 2 but may follow with something more matte.

 

Everything here seems to play well together.  The base layers are all lacquer and the Testors/Humbrols are enamel so any layering should be fine.  I opted against the Testors Matte Black spray I was testing because it was REALLY matte.  I changed my mind and liked the way the Tamiya Matte Black still had a bit of shine to to.  I think it makes things look a little more like metal.  How much more?  I'll post a couple of "teaser" pics in a sec....

 

Mark

[Suspend]

Weathering : "Teaser" Pics

 

Just two "in progress" samples....    

 

 

 

Mark

 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Those teasers are looking lovely! Can’t wait to see more. 

[Suspend]

Hey guys, I haven't had too much time to work on my blaster this week but I'm still working on the weathering.

 

I was going to ask, does anyone have any photos or descriptions of how they attach the counter?  I have Tino's Completion Kit and I'm assuming the separate "L" bracket is mounted under the scope rail using one of the screws that goes into the scope.  I'm also assuming that the other part of the bracket points downward and that the counter gets attached to the side.  Do most people use E6000 or put a screw through into the counter?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

[CableGuy[TK]]

Hi Mark,

 

I also used Tino’s kit and attached using the L-bracket and 3 screws.

 

Not the easiest part to photograph once it’s all painted and hidden behind the scope, but, hopefully these help a little.

 

The L-bracket is attached under the scope rail, below the front foot of the scope, using the same screw as the scope.

 

A single hole is drilled into the side of the counter, allowing a screw to pass through the downward part of the L-bracket and into the counter. (You could probably do two holes if you wanted, but I think Tino only did one in his build - if it’s good enough for him, .... )

 

 

 

You can just see the L-bracket under the scope rail, below the front foot.

 

 

I read that the originals where attached with hot glue, hence many being missing. I think the bracket and screws option is much better for trooping. ;-)

 

How that helps a little.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[T-Jay[TK]]

Exactly what Dan said. Screen used counters fell off, as they were only hot glued. Scope rails with L-brackets are much better for our purposes. And the mounting, you got it absolutely right.

 

About only running one screw into the counter: working with only one screw here, allows to align the counter with the rest of your build. Once done, you can feel free to add a second screw to make sure, it stays in that position.