QuartZ's Anovos ANH Stunt Build

[wook1138[TK]]

Did you post images of yours in your issues thread? I’d love to compare. Mine weren’t all th same amount of deformation. The ones in the photo are the worst.
 
-Dana

I thought I did but I couldn’t find it on my thread. So here is what i have. It is not a great photo and this is the one I’m pretty sure is due to me pressing too hard on the snap.




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[QuartZ]

Another data point, I used the same ABS plastic filament for my bracket reinforcing strips all over the torso and didn’t get any reaction when glued. I would also expect if it were a reaction to the plastic that I would see deformation defining the overall shape of the shape plates. Manning the rectangular perimeter should be warping through to the exterior. The snaps seem the most logical as the dome like humps are without a doubt centered over snaps in all cases.

 

-Dana

Edited January 16, 2018 by QuartZ
Typo

[QuartZ]

deleting double post

 

-Dana

Edited January 16, 2018 by QuartZ
Double post

[wook1138[TK]]

Ok, I doubled checked for those dimples. I have a few very discreet ones associated with a few of my nylon bases. Most of them blend in and I didn’t bother trying to photograph them. The ABS snap bases were more obvious. Here is one:


Here is a closer shot. There is some yellow discolouration.

To be fair, I did get glue on the metal for this one. It also looks way worse in the pics.


This is a location of an old nylon base that was moved. Yellow discolouration.


Used nylon bases. No sign of corrosion of metal but the e6000 is mostly yellow.


The only other place I used the ABS plates were on the shoulder straps. There is a slight bump on the back ones, I can’t see the front ones.


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[wook1138[TK]]

Oh yeah, the bumps are all centred on the snap itself.


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[ukswrath[Staff]]

Definitely some kind of chemical reaction going on here

[Timberwoof[TK]]

I think we're seeing strain from the flat snap brackets on the curved back armor pieces. How flexible are the snap brackets? How much does clamping them bend the armor? My Anovos kit has two such brackets for snaps that suspend the thigh pieces. They are oriented vertically—the same axis as the curve of the codpiece at the belt line—and there was no such effect. 

[QuartZ]

15 hours ago, wook1138 said:

Ok, I doubled checked for those dimples. I have a few very discreet ones associated with a few of my nylon bases. Most of them blend in and I didn’t bother trying to photograph them. The ABS snap bases were more obvious. Here is one:

Thanks for posting all of these photos. I think it’s important and will help others hopefully in dealing with or avoiding issues similar to ours. That image (above) is more “pointed” or defined than mine. Mine are much lower elevation changes spread out over a slightly larger diameter.

 

14 hours ago, Timberwoof said:

I think we're seeing strain from the flat snap brackets on the curved back armor pieces. How flexible are the snap brackets? How much does clamping them bend the armor? My Anovos kit has two such brackets for snaps that suspend the thigh pieces. They are oriented vertically—the same axis as the curve of the codpiece at the belt line—and there was no such effect. 

Actually, I warmed and bent each plate into a slight curve where necessary to closely match the location on the armor. So when I laid hem on the armor before glue, there were little to no gaps. When I glued them and clamped with magnets, I didn’t see any strain or bend. I’m fact, my second set after I noticed the first set warp used very little pressure with light clamps and fewer/weaker magnets. Really strange. The snap plates weren’t trying to spring off the armor in any way, that’s why I curved those that needed it.

 

-Dana

[Harbinger[IPM]]

Mine does in fact have warping, but I'm like 90% sure it developed slowly as they weren't there before:

 

The bumps are in pretty much every spot I have a snap plate - some have glue on the metal, some don't, some are recessed more than others, so I don't think those variables affect the outcome much.

[QuartZ]

15 minutes ago, Harbinger said:

Mine does in fact have warping, but I'm like 90% sure it developed slowly as they weren't there before:

 

The bumps are in pretty much every spot I have a snap plate - some have glue on the metal, some don't, some are recessed more than others, so I don't think those variables affect the outcome much.

Hmm, that's really interesting that you didn't know you had warps/bumps/humps before! Oh my what scandal have I uncovered!? Dare I say this should be called...SNAPGATE?

 

Ok, so this morning I took @ukswrath's advice and popped off a snap plate. Luckily as I do a lot of 3D printing I own this tool that I bought on amazon that I use to remove objects from my printers bed. It's thin flexible metal that gets under an edge and makes removing things like this really easy:

 

So, with that tool and some nervousness about what I might find under the snap plate, I chose the worst one on the kidney armor which was the center one along the posterior seam. It was also in the first stage of glue ups where I used heavy pressure (from big magnets and medium clamps), no black electrical tape, but no glue applied to the snaps. Here's what I found:

 

Nothing conclusive! The glue had a great bond, was fully cured, and was clear/not discolored. The snaps looked brand new. No signs of any chemical reaction with the snaps or ABS printed snap plates. At least nothing I can observe with my naked eye. That doesn't rule i out at all as I admit it isn't scientific. I don't see any melting of any parts involved.

 

Even more interesting, is that after removing this, the plastic returned somewhat to it's original shape. I'd say it went back to about 80% of what it looked like before. Next, I tried using a little pressure with my thumbs from the outside while bracing the inside with my other fingers to press down on the high points of the humps. After wiping the surface with a cloth to remove fingerprints, it looked like this:

 

You can look back at my "before" posts and I think I would say that removing the snaps and a little massaging of the armor with my hands put it back to about 90% of the original condition. I really don't see much warping anymore. If it's there, it's so slight that I think no one else would spot it without me pointing it out and really angling lights at the damn thing. So, at least I'm happy that I have a good place to start from for attempt #2.

 

Another datapoint that I'll give is this. I pulled off all of the snap plates that I had installed and wanted to show what happened with the snaps that had black electrical tape on them. Pretty much everything was the same as the snaps without tape, but the electrical tape had melted from either contact with glue or gas...and there was some black smudgy gunk, all o which I was able to clean off simply with a paper towel and some alcohol. The glue bond was still fine, and these plates didn't exhibit and more or less warping. So I state that the electrical tape was not a differentiating factor:

 

Gotta run...more on this when I continue. Discuss!

 

-Dana

[Harbinger[IPM]]

All, I started a new thread on the topic here:

 

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Are your snaps flush or below the surface of your plates? I assumed they were. If not, that could also be the cause also. The Anovos armor is very thin. Any pressure on it, especially a raised snap will push out the plastic.  

 

Now that I think about it every Anovos TK I've built with snaps I used nylon mounts. How did those work out for you? 

[QuartZ]

10 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Are your snaps flush or below the surface of your plates? I assumed they were. If not, that could also be the cause also. The Anovos armor is very thin. Any pressure on it, especially a raised snap will push out the plastic.  

 

Now that I think about it every Anovos TK I've built with snaps I used nylon mounts. How did those work out for you? 

If you're asking about mine, they are better than flush, they are recessed a bit on average they are about 0.1 mm I'm open to trying nylon if you think that's a better move. I just don't like the idea of the snaps slowly tearing through the nylon as force is applied to them. AND I was going to use elastic for most of my straps connections.

 

-Dana

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

If you are going to use nylon I would suggest making the hole for the snap with a soldering iron, leaves a nice melted edge to prevent the snap tearing through  

[Harbinger[IPM]]

If I may add, you'll want to make sure to use actual nylon and not the polyester webbing junk they sell at Jo-Ann's/Michaels, some users here have noted a pinkish discoloration/staining of plastic with it.

[QuartZ]

Just have a quick note to post this morning... I checked on my armor pieces that have been sitting/"resting" since I removed the snap plates yesterday, and after inspecting all of the armor pieces, I can't see any signs of the humps caused by the snaps. Yesterday I could still see a little hint of where the deformation had occurred in the two center kidney locations (top and bottom) but today I feel like the armor may have relaxed some. None of the humps had any soft edges, so I wonder if other people would get similar results from removing their snap plates?

 

I'm now looking into Fasnap Marine Grade Line 24 snaps (I think they are stainless steel) and nylon webbing. @ukswrath do you have a supplier for the snaps in bulk? When I ordered my Tandy snaps I grabbed a 100 sets to save on $$$

 

Thanks,

-Dana

Edited January 18, 2018 by QuartZ
fixed mention of ukswrath

[Harbinger[IPM]]

I'm actually beginning to wonder if it's just the strain of the plate/snaps on the thin Anovos armor after all, if it goes away.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

1 hour ago, QuartZ said:

Just have a quick note to post this morning... I checked on my armor pieces that have been sitting/"resting" since I removed the snap plates yesterday, and after inspecting all of the armor pieces, I can't see any signs of the humps caused by the snaps. Yesterday I could still see a little hint of where the deformation had occurred in the two center kidney locations (top and bottom) but today I feel like the armor may have relaxed some. None of the humps had any soft edges, so I wonder if other people would get similar results from removing their snap plates?

 

I'm now looking into Fasnap Marine Grade Line 24 snaps (I think they are stainless steel) and nylon webbing. @ukswrath do you have a supplier for the snaps in bulk? When I ordered my Tandy snaps I grabbed a 100 sets to save on $$$

 

Thanks,

-Dana

https://fasteners.fasnap.com/viewitems/snap-fasteners---screw-studs/standard-snap-fasteners

[ukswrath[Staff]]

20 minutes ago, Harbinger said:

I'm actually beginning to wonder if it's just the strain of the plate/snaps on the thin Anovos armor after all, if it goes away.

Definitely possible though this issue is nothing new. The extent of the warping is what concerns me. Possible change in Anovos plastic? Who knows  

[QuartZ]

1 hour ago, Harbinger said:

I'm actually beginning to wonder if it's just the strain of the plate/snaps on the thin Anovos armor after all, if it goes away.

I wonder if it will go away in your case. Not that I'm asking you to try it since you're all done. But my snaps were only installed for 48-72 hours max. So the theory that warping will go away if uninstalled may only be true if the armor is relieved of the strain/pressure short after it is noticed. It doesn't look like any permanent change took place in my case.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

57 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

Definitely possible though this issue is nothing new. The extent of the warping is what concerns me. Possible change in Anovos plastic? Who knows  

The kit that I am assembling is an older Anovos kit (not from the recent batches) I'm not sure when it was manufactured as I bought it second-hand.

 

-Dana

[QuartZ]

Yesterday I started back on my shins/calves as I continue to work on solutions to my strapping/snap plate issues in the background. So, I did some return edge trimming on all of the parts and was ready to start fitting when I remembered I should break out the boots so I have them handy when working on the ankle clearance. Then I realized I hadn't taken a photo of the boots. I went with Imperial Boots:

 

They look really nice. For sizing I took 3 pairs of my "regular shoes" from everyday ones to my tight fitting barefoot-style running shoes and looked at their EU sizes. Since things vary between manufacturers in terms of fit and sizing, I took the average of all 3 and ended up purchasing a EU size 44. They fit nice and snug without being uncomfortable and I'm sure as they break-in/stretch that they will be even better.

 

Alright, so I'm off to work on the shin armor.

 

-Dana

[QuartZ]

This is probably going to come out of nowhere, as I haven't mentioned it until now, but over the last few weeks I've been quietly working on some new hand guard patterns in the background while I build the rest of my armor. These patterns are hard copies to make molds from and cast some white silicone copies. I've been working on the right hand just to figure everything out. The left hand is in the sanding phase. After a lot of work, I'm happy with how it came out. Here's some different angles of the right hand guard:

 

This is my own interpretation of the hand guards seen in the film. I was using this particular stormtrooper as my target:

 

Some notes on what I was going for:

• I took a screen shot from the film and traced it to get the proportions of the shapes/features as spot on as possible.
• The whole hand plate has a very subtle curve to it. It's still pretty flat feeling, but just not as much as if it had been created out of flat layers stacked on top of each other.
• I tried something a bit different to achieve the look of that pesky crease that transitions from the back of the hand toward the thumb taper. So, I gave mine a slight offset/step down at the crease that smoothly transitions into a slope that thins at the thumb edge.
• The thumb taper is a true slope/angle change. I know that the angle change becomes more pronounced once the guard is glued to the glove and curves with the hand so I tried to keep this pretty shallow but noticeable.
• I tried to achieve a surface finish that looked similar to the ABS armor.

Anyway, I'll keep plugging away at the left hand guard while I wait E6000 to dry.

 

-Dana

Edited January 29, 2018 by QuartZ
trying to adjust some photos on mobile

[QuartZ]

I didn't get around to posting this a few days ago, but I got the shins all trimmed, fitted, and glued up in the fronts with cover strips. After reading up on everything I could related to the Anovos "Shingate" situation, I went with 24 & 27 as my Left:

 

and 25 & 28 as my Right:

 

Here's how they look after the fronts dried. I'm using a ton of blue painters tape across the rear seams to keep these closed for the photo (more on that below)

 

I'm going with the bra hook and elastic closures in the rear. I still need to glue the rear cover strips to the "outer halves", and I was wondering if anyone thinks I should hot water bath these shins to help get the rear seams to close flush before I proceed. My shins have a gap/offset right now that is about an inch or more on either leg, I figure getting them to meet nicely in their resting state would be best as that should cause little stress on the elastic closures during normal wear. AND, I think it will help ensure that the rear cover strips lay nice against inner halves, eliminating any extra gap and concealing the bra hooks/holes drilled.

 

Any thoughts? Oh and is there any actual tutorial for hot water baths? As I searched the forums I found very little actual useful instructions or imagery to help with what seems like a risky move with ABS armor.

 

Help appreciated,

-Dana

Edited January 31, 2018 by QuartZ
added new image and info

[TheSwede[TK]]

A little tension is good so how much force does it take to close? 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

2 hours ago, QuartZ said:

I'm going with the bra hook and elastic closures in the rear. I still need to glue the rear cover strips to the "outer halves", and I was wondering if anyone thinks I should hot water bath these shins to help get the rear seams to close flush before I proceed. My shins have a gap/offset right now that is about an inch or more on either leg, I figure getting them to meet nicely in their resting state would be best as that should cause little stress on the elastic closures during normal wear. AND, I think it will help ensure that the rear cover strips lay nice against inner halves, eliminating any extra gap and concealing the bra hooks/holes drilled.

 

Any thoughts? Oh and is there any actual tutorial for hot water baths? As I searched the forums I found very little actual useful instructions or imagery to help with what seems like a risky move with ABS armor.

 

Help appreciated,

-Dana

I hot water bathed my ATA shins for the same reason. I wanted the two halves to come together naturally. I have to say it was really tough to do without adversely effecting other areas of the shin. End result was shins that closed on their own but the left shin is now really tight around my ankle. Pick your battles, carefully.

 

BTW beautiful work on those hand plates