Official Rebels TK CRL Discussion thread

[Daetrin[Admin]]

OK guys, thanks to a lot of hard work by Eric (eqdizzle), we have a pretty darn good CRL for review.  The link is here:

 

https://origin-wiki.501st.com/databank/TK_rebels

 

Please let me know if any of you can't access it.   What I'm looking for is to go through this and see if anything doesn't make sense, or is flat out inaccurate.

 

You may fire when ready!

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

Hiiiiii!

 

A few questions... comments... etc..  

 

Is is true that all Rebels TK have some sort of grey weathering on them as seen on screen? I'm assuming this is sort of clone-ish dirt you're talking a out?

 

The word "seamless" is confusing on parts that clearly have a seam line. Forearms wording: Armor is seamless with no indication of joining method.

 

I don't know what/where a vertical indent is after looking at the photo: Vertical indent on exterior of bicep is colored gray.

 

When it comes to requiring a very specific number of indents on the shoulder bridges, forearms and belt etc, please bear in mind that someone skinnier or bigger may need to modify the armor to fit them. 

 

If you allow an ANH E-11 for ROTJ and ESB, why not for the rebels TK too?

 

Those are my first thoughts. 

 

-Eric

 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Sweet feedback Eric and these are all great points!  I'm heads down today, should be able to update & comment tonight.

[walt[501st]]

Well the rebels blaster does have a totally different look.  That may be a good “level up”

 The  lines that go down are just that. Lines   That is not an opening area .

 

 Shoulder bridges  and belt. Ya that is a fixed part of the armor and will need trimming to fit smaller/ thinner people .

 

And yes they all are dirty to a point   But then again so we’re the ANH Tk’s 

 Possibly another “level up”?    They look so cool clean. .... just my  opinion  

[eqdizzle[TK]]

Part of the defining characteristics of the animated style is that all the characters have a bit of porcelain-like weathering while still being glossy. Very much unlike the Clones where they are dirty and matte. Likewise, I used the Rubies stormtrooper blaster and did the cleanup, including adding a proper D ring. It's readily available and has the animated look. At $12.99 at stores right now, it's an easy mod until or unless someone builds a custom one.  Hope this helps the conversation along!

[walt[501st]]

Ok ...  approved !!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Updates made.  The only question is if we should require light weathering for L1 or not.  it's in there now.

 

Any other comments, lmk.  My goal is to let this be a Q&A for a week and have it sewn up in time that we can get the LMO's to sign off before end of month.

[eqdizzle[TK]]

14 hours ago, Daetrin said:

Updates made.  The only question is if we should require light weathering for L1 or not.  it's in there now.

 

You already know my opinion on this..! 

 

 

Weather!!

 

 

Weather!!

 

 

Weather!!

 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I'm in alignment with that, I think the question is how badly should it be a requirement for L1.  Thanks for showing the shot of the pauldron - I'll need to add that as an accessory.

[eqdizzle[TK]]

The pauldrons I've seen are Black, Orange, white, and black with unit symbol (Thrawn's personal guards from last year).  I have not seen an animated pauldron made as of yet, so I don't know if you want to allow ANH pauldrons or wait until a proper one can be made.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

4 hours ago, eqdizzle said:

The pauldrons I've seen are Black, Orange, white, and black with unit symbol (Thrawn's personal guards from last year).  I have not seen an animated pauldron made as of yet, so I don't know if you want to allow ANH pauldrons or wait until a proper one can be made.

Typically we'll keep regular pauldrons as L1 and nice ones for L2/L3 when they emerge.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Neck Seal "may" not have horizontal ribs. Should that be "must" not? May seems to indicate optional. Or are regular TK neck seals acceptable?

 

Helmet - you have the point about weathering twice. Point 2 and last point

 

Forearm - Did you want to remove the 13 segments, due to the trimming to size issue? Same for Belt.

 

Back Plate - We allow overlaps for short ANH TKs. Should we allow overlaps for short Rebels TKs?

 

Boots - "Chelsea style acceptable". Is that normal ANH TK boots?

 

Weathering - Yes or No for base level, whatever. But if you make is mandatory for Base, you should change the boot weathering to base aswell. Can't have a dirty TK with clean boots.

 

Grey lines - No need for arguments with Eric here, I still think the grey in the lines is just heavier built up weathering, not necessarily grey paint. However, if it is made mandatory, amend all costume pieces. As it reads, grey lines are only required for the arms. Nothing, or all.

 

I haven't seen enough Rebels to comment on Level 2/3, but most of it is looking good. 

[bluefunoodle311[501st]]

1. I disagree with having the weathering a requirement for basic level approvals (with the exception of the gray lines on the indents)

2. Should implement a minimum number of segments on the belt and forearms to accommodate different sized troopers but not dilute the costume to severe inaccuracies

3. Confused about the stickers/paint comment on the thermal detonator. If it looks correct, who cares if it’s a white tube with stickers or paint vice a grey tube painted white?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Thanks for the comments everyone.  Here is my ruling based on feedback, source material, and also having made CRLs for 10 years and realizing that L1 isn't meant to be "perfect" (it certainly isn't Legion wide), e.g. L1 should be consistent to other TK and non-TK costumes in the Legion.

1. Neckseal: I'm allowing ribs for L1, and not for L2
2. Armor: weathering is now L2
3. Forearm: I'll remove the # of segments, people can see if it "looks right" from the picture. The OT TK CRL doesn't mention the number of raised boxes anywhere either, not on the belt, arms, thigh ammo pack. Nowhere.
4. Back plate:  I'll allow overlap on L1, but not L2+.  ANH TK's are the same.
5. Boots : Yes, regular OT TK boots are fine for L1
6. Grey Lines: Yes, we should mention this as needed. Please lmk if I missed anywhere.
7. Added pauldrons.  OT ones are OK for L1.
8. The stickers is relating to back in the day FX kits came with metallic stickers to simulate the metal hooks we use now.  It's a legacy item I can remove.

[DTCorvus]

You already know my opinion on this..! 
 

 
Weather!!
 

 
Weather!!
 

 
Weather!!
 

From an artist/animators point of view that grey is not weathering, it’s gradient shadowing. This gradient shadowing is there so that the curvature for their armor is shown, otherwise they would look flat as pancakes. Not all shadowing is black, truly it’s never black at all just darker shades of the parent color and grey is a darker shade of white. Animation is set under perfect lighting because it’s a total creation in a perfect environment, unlike the films which have to deal with light reflecting off of surfaces adding an extra light source. So it’s shadowing not weathering.


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[Sentry71[TK]]

For the CRL, it says the lenses are dark smoke, but in the first of the reference pics from Eric in the thread above, the lenses look green. Since it seems to be a secondary reference, I don't know if that applies.

 

The posterior description still shows "weathering" as L1.

 

The shoulder bell reference seems to be off (template issue?), may also have the "weathering" description as L1.

 

I believe there was a red pauldron as well, but I am trying to find a reference shot for it.

 

Overall, it looks good!!

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Sentry71

[eqdizzle[TK]]

7 minutes ago, Sentry71 said:

For the CRL, it says the lenses are dark smoke, but in the first of the reference pics from Eric in the thread above, the lenses look green. Since it seems to be a secondary reference, I don't know if that applies.

 

The posterior description still shows "weathering" as L1.

 

The shoulder bell reference seems to be off (template issue?), may also have the "weathering" description as L1.

 

Overall, it looks good!!

 

 

It might be a good idea to allow the dark green lenses as well.  The imperative thing being the obscuring of the eyes, and either will look black once worn anyway.  The green messes with me, but others may prefer it.

[bluefunoodle311[501st]]

7 hours ago, DTCorvus said:

 

From an artist/animators point of view that grey is not weathering, it’s gradient shadowing. This gradient shadowing is there so that the curvature for their armor is shown, otherwise they would look flat as pancakes. Not all shadowing is black, truly it’s never black at all just darker shades of the parent color and grey is a darker shade of white. Animation is set under perfect lighting because it’s a total creation in a perfect environment, unlike the films which have to deal with light reflecting off of surfaces adding an extra light source. So it’s shadowing not weathering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I concur. This is the same point I have tried to make in the past.  

[eqdizzle[TK]]

2 hours ago, bluefunoodle311 said:

I concur. This is the same point I have tried to make in the past.  

It's L2 now, so hopefully the point is moot. Either way, the additional gradient shading, or weathering more accurately portrays what is rendered on screen, rather than an interpretation of what we feel it should be, so it makes sense to be included at the secondary levels. The use of the term "subtle weathering" is also a bit more understandable to most costumers.  While my personal preference would be to make it mandatory at all levels, it's not my CRL as it belongs to the Legion and the FISD. For the Empire!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Thanks everyone - I fixed all the issues you mentioned.  I'll let it sit for a few more days and if there is nothing more, off to the LMOs it goes.  I think for weathering we are trying to capture to how it appears to the eye on screen as has been mentioned.  To me at least I'm not seeing anything that looks like a "clean" TK should.  As has been mentioned this is likely due to the artists making it easier to show depth, etc.  In any event, subtle weathering is just that, subtle, to add shade and depth.  

 

Also, the fact that it's L2 gives us room to maneuver.

 

 

[eqdizzle[TK]]

The shoulder bell pic is mis-formatted

 

Should there be more mention of "Animated-style armor"  where appropriate?  There are quite a few differences from the Movie TKs where a movie armor piece wouldn't be appropriate.

 

Remove references to FX armor from "Special Notes"

 

otherwise, looks very strong!

 

I appreciate everyone's work, input, and debate on helping to bring this to life!!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Hey Eric - clear your browser cache and hit refresh LOL Fixed.

 

The movie quote I have to defer to the LMO about, that's part of the standard TK verbiage.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

FYI, I shipped this off to the LMOs for review.  Huge thanks to Eric for getting the photos going. We'd be toast without that!

[Sentry71[TK]]

Not sure if this can still be addressed, but the Posterior doesn't mention the L2 weathering.  

[eqdizzle[TK]]

34 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

Hey Eric - clear your browser cache and hit refresh LOL Fixed.

 

The movie quote I have to defer to the LMO about, that's part of the standard TK verbiage.

 

31 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

FYI, I shipped this off to the LMOs for review.  Huge thanks to Eric for getting the photos going. We'd be toast without that!

 

Thanks again for the opportunity to help on it!  It's been a fun costume to figure out and wear!

 

14 minutes ago, Sentry71 said:

Not sure if this can still be addressed, but the Posterior doesn't mention the L2 weathering.  

Good eyeballs, Gary.