FISD Master Armorer Program - Overview

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I would say as long as it's 50/50 it should be fine. 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

7 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

I would say as long as it's 50/50 it should be fine. 

50/50 or "The assistance must be for a period of 30 minutes or more." as in the OP? Just to clarify. For example, if a suit was assembled by another "Master" armorer, but the suit was then repaired, updated for accuracy, and photographed for submission by another member over the course of many hours? Should both be counted as "wins"? If not, does the original builder get credit, or the one who helped with the EIB submission? Just want to make sure that's okay and we're on the same page, otherwise I will remove one of my wins.

Edited October 17, 2019 by TheRascalKing

[kingsredarmy[TK]]

50/50 or "The assistance must be for a period of 30 minutes or more." as in the OP? Just to clarify. For example, if a suit was assembled by another "Master" armorer, but the suit was then repaired, updated for accuracy, and photographed for submission by another member over the course of many hours? Should both be counted as "wins"? If not, does the original builder get credit, or the one who helped with the EIB submission? Just want to make sure that's okay and we're on the same page, otherwise I will remove one of my wins.

Exactly! I want to clarify before I take wins away from some by accident.



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[Daetrin[Admin]]

The intent of the award was to incentive and recognize those who help other people go EI. It need not be a full set of armor by yourself.  I would say anyone spending 30 or more minutes counts as a "win" if that person goes EI and says they helped and put in > 30 minutes towards the project.  If 30 minutes seems too low, 1 hour can be the bottom mark.   So, the OP would read:

 

1 hour or more on a single EI awardee, regardless of how many other people helped.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

I hate to stir up trouble, wait no I love to stir up trouble... But I'd encourage a revisitation of this program, especially in a COVID-era world where "in-person" mentorship has become a safety concern for many of us. I'd love to see more deserving people wearing this badge for their efforts in assisting others, and perhaps the number of wins can be adjusted if it gets out of hand.

Of course I'd love another little badge myself, but in general, I think it's important to recognize those who go above and beyond in assisting troopers on an individual basis with their armor for an extended period of time, and it's a brave new world for many of us with the global pandemic.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on the "in-person" requirement for this award? I see folks thanked and recognized for their assistance on threads regularly, but not many of these badges...

Edited December 1, 2020 by TheRascalKing

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Interesting point, Justin.  I like to think I've helped one or two folks here on the FISD on occasion, but this was designed for a hands-on approach.  Until we get into a safe zone this will probably not be awarded until we are post-pandemic sad to say.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

7 hours ago, TheRascalKing said:

I hate to stir up trouble, wait no I love to stir up trouble... But I'd encourage a revisitation of this program, especially in a COVID-era world where "in-person" mentorship has become a safety concern for many of us. I'd love to see more deserving people wearing this badge for their efforts in assisting others, and perhaps the number of wins can be adjusted if it gets out of hand.

Of course I'd love another little badge myself, but in general, I think it's important to recognize those who go above and beyond in assisting troopers on an individual basis with their armor for an extended period of time, and it's a brave new world for many of us with the global pandemic.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on the "in-person" requirement for this award? I see folks thanked and recognized for their assistance on threads regularly, but not many of these badges...

 

Though I like the idea if virtually helping people build their armor was credited some of us here would be in the upper 100s if not 1000s 

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

^^^^^^^ Yep  

[Sly11[Admin]]

Indeed.

I think we just leave the program to the side line until things get closer normal. It is very much a hands on award scheme.

Great to see you thinking outside the box though Justin

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

3 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

Indeed.

I think we just leave the program to the side line until things get closer normal. It is very much a hands on award scheme.

Great to see you thinking outside the box though Justin

No worries, and I appreciate even the consideration. I was just getting a little down on the shape of things yesterday as my state began shutting back down due to rising Covid numbers, and unfortunately, I don't know when things will be safe to mentor in person again, so I figured it would be worth asking if a change could be considered. We would obviously still need a clear differentiation between casual forum posting and the folks who go out of their way to answer specific questions and mentor outside the forums as well, but I would encourage the team to keep this in mind and on the backburner as we continue to see how the pandemic plays out. 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:16 AM, Daetrin said:

The intent of the award was to incentive and recognize those who help other people go EI. 

And not to forget the intent of the award as Paul posted previously, it is only for those you have helped to reach EI, if it was just to help anyone to basic BOY I'd have a few  

[Daetrin[Admin]]

10 minutes ago, gmrhodes13 said:

And not to forget the intent of the award as Paul posted previously, it is only for those you have helped to reach EI, if it was just to help anyone to basic BOY I'd have a few  

Correct.  Even at 1000 EI we are far short of our target with is closer to 2400 EI.  It's really trying to be yet another carrot to incentivize people to go EI, in this case by helping others to get to EI.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

16 hours ago, gmrhodes13 said:

"....I'd have a few..."

Thousand 

[Sly11[Admin]]

6 hours ago, TheRascalKing said:

No worries, and I appreciate even the consideration. I was just getting a little down on the shape of things yesterday as my state began shutting back down due to rising Covid numbers, and unfortunately, I don't know when things will be safe to mentor in person again, so I figured it would be worth asking if a change could be considered. We would

This Pandemic has not been kind on so many, please stay safe and well, and do the best you can Justin.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

Back again... If the same person is approved twice at the Expert Infantry level for two separate suits, with the same Armorer assisting both times... Does that same person count as two wins? Are we counting suits or troopers?

[Sly11[Admin]]

I would be happy to consider that as two separate builds even though you can only be awarded EI once for the same costume.

It was two different kits, so we did follow the process correctly on the second. That is a win for you Justin.

[TK1636[TK]]

I find it the hardest to get them to go to the forums and put in for EIB. I can build the armor for them take all the necessary pictures, but I can't make them post on the forums to apply for EIB. 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

What is their barrier to this?  Lack of an account?  I mean, it's like a 5 minute process to apply if you have all the photos already there.

 

In the past being eligible for that gold EI only coin was a big incentive, but maybe it no longer is?

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Unfortunately I see the same thing, many are just happy to get basic approval no matter what support you give, some find having to go to a forum a tedious job, I don't know why myself it's not that hard.

 

I've built plenty of kits but unfortunately only one took his to EIB, I'm sure this program would get more action if it was just basic builds and helping with approval, but that is kind of covered by our attache program

[Sly11[Admin]]

It is actually in our detachment plan for this term to take a look at all out various programs and see where we might make improvements.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

So all of this comes down to encouraging people to go EI from basic.  That is ultimately the goal of all these programs. If they are no longer effective, they can be replaced.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

On 2/10/2022 at 2:16 PM, Daetrin said:

So all of this comes down to encouraging people to go EI from basic.  That is ultimately the goal of all these programs. If they are no longer effective, they can be replaced.

I've had multiple that have submitted for EIB, received what felt like insurmountable criticism and not return. It's not the DO team's fault persay, and in fact, they have done a great job reaching out to folks to try to touch base, but it's another problem inherent with the system. Convincing people to submit for criticism is one thing, convincing them to change the armor they worked so hard on, and were approved with... especially, previously when some of the asks were not noted in the CRL... has been a challenge. I often help prep my mentees' threads even, sending them all of the photos we took and the template to fill out... still doesn't happen sometimes. You can lead a horse to water, but...

Like with the coins mentioned, one idea would be to have EIB and Centurion patches/rockers always available for purchase once earned, kinda like the coins. It's a little more immediate gratification for going through the wringer, though someone would have to be in charge of this (I'd volunteer). And/or some type of patch or coin for armorers, like with Attache's to help motivate people. 

Since EIB photos are next to impossible to take alone, I think having active and motivated armorers is key - it's usually best to have someone else who KNOWS the CRLs and requirements expected (an ARMORER) to be the one who adjusts/checks you and takes your photos (it's why you see my fence in submissions somewhat frequently). It's been slow for in person mentoring due to COVID, but things are starting to turn around so it's a great time to revisit these programs, imo. If we have more Armorers, even moreso than Attaches, we should see more EIB and Centurion submissions follow.

Edited February 12, 2022 by TheRascalKing

[Sly11[Admin]]

I just want to point out something that has always been the case with how higher level approvals take place.

If you read the information it tells you, not only word and images but to use additional references when looking to apply for higher levels. They are steps toward more accuracy and a standardised look (no gaffers tape, cracked and damaged areas) that's prop replication.

This has worked well and been accepted for many many years by almost all that have applied, it has only been a few who have stepped away from it or pushed back so they are the exception and not the norm.

Most of this occurs at centurion not so much EI, but it makes sense to recommend a change if they intend to apply for centurion.

CRL review will be ongoing this year, and more changes will be made to the CRL's so the standards can be kept high.

EI and Centurion are purely optional, no one is forced to make the step, it's something that either interests or excites you, or it doesn't.

Everyone that has passed those levels is proud, they did what it took to get there, and we owe it to every single one of them to keep consistency and that high standard.

We are 501st, we are known for quality, I for one believe in that, and have no intention on letting it slip.

We will be having more Polls, and membership voting on amendments, so I think you will find this year, an expansion on what is already in our CRLs for Centurion, maybe a little on EI too, but we wont really know until we start to review each CRL.

Having things mandated and in writing in the CRL should certainly take any resistance out of the equation form that direction, making the minority an even smaller group, and aiding in reducing pressure on the Deployment office.

Easier for all process is the way forward.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I think too it used to be - back in the day - that basic wasn't all that great.  Black ab plate buttons, plastic belts, FX helmets, etc.  Going EI made you look *much* better for a modest investment in time and accuracy.  What was EI then is basic now, and Centurion then is more like EI today.

 

In other words, as the base accuracy has gotten higher with better kits and parts, going EI doesn't always result in a better looking suit to the general public.

 

So I think for the normal stormtrooper, there is less incentive to go higher when basic today looks pretty good (compared to years past).

 

Is EI hard to get?  I used to say $50 and a few hours of work.  Is that still true?

[Sly11[Admin]]

38 minutes ago, Daetrin said:

I think too it used to be - back in the day - that basic wasn't all that great.  Black ab plate buttons, plastic belts, FX helmets, etc.  Going EI made you look *much* better for a modest investment in time and accuracy.  What was EI then is basic now, and Centurion then is more like EI today.

 

In other words, as the base accuracy has gotten higher with better kits and parts, going EI doesn't always result in a better looking suit to the general public.

 

So I think for the normal stormtrooper, there is less incentive to go higher when basic today looks pretty good (compared to years past).

 

Is EI hard to get?  I used to say $50 and a few hours of work.  Is that still true?

I would say with certainty that we have evolved as have the products and information available to us.

Today we are spoiled with choice, so I would unequivocally say yes! Basic approval is the best it has ever been, has this cause us to look at EI and centurion to improve then, again yes.

That necessity has and will continue to allow us and the higher levels to remain relevant.

The last two years and now into this one, have been a journey of updating FISD across many facets, to remain at the forefront of what we do, and to keep the forums and all our content relevant.

We have taken all feedback, both positive and negative, and actioned it where possible. Our CRL's and higher levels form a very important part of that as do our various members programs.

Ultimately, you need traffic and members who want to participate to make anything work, evolution is the pathway to rejuvenation.

 

I better get off my soap box now don't want to overdo it.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sly11
Edited to correct spelling mistake.