Helmet question

[tkrestonva[TK]]

Sounds like a thread split is in order.

[troopermaster]

Here's a comparison between Gino's helmet and original LFL helmets. You can see that the original tubes flares out just after the ear cap into a bulbous shape towards the middle of the tube, and almost looks to have a dent on the underside where the flare starts. You can see this is missing on Gino's helmet and this is the area where it has been tweaked. All ANH, ESB, Hero and even ROTJ has the same bulbous shape on the right hand side tube but is not present on Gino's helmets......Why is that Gino?

[GINO]

I don't know what you are trying to point out here.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, there was no modification made to my faceplate.

 

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[troopermaster]

This area is what differs from your helmet compared to any original.

I believe you when you say no modifications were made to your face plate, but your moulds did not come directly from the inside of a screen used helmet. You took a copy of the mould from a screen used helmet and who's to say for sure what was done to that mould before you got your hands on it or, if that was the actual mould that was taken or a modified version that you recieved?

[GINO]

What you are seeing in those photos is the thin plastic flexing under the stress of the earcap.

That 'dent' is not part of the mold but rather an effect caused by the assembly.

 

Also, the molds I have are exact duplicates (that I made) directly off the molds that touched the insides of a screen used helmet. They are the only molds outside of the archives that are undisturbed, unmodified, or uncleaned up.

 

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[troopermaster]

What you are seeing in those photos is the thin plastic flexing under the stress of the earcap.

That 'dent' is not part of the mold but rather an effect caused by the assembly.

 

I thought you would say that but they are part of the mould. If they were not, then how do you account for this detail to be on the ABS hero and ROTJ helmets?

 

The opposite side would have the same shape if this was the case and it doesn't.

[Ghost]

My SFS helmet has this feature, but don't want to get into the debate of how this helmet came to be

 

More interesting is the following marks that appear on some of the original lids:

BrianR:

StopThatShip:

MoveAlong:

ESBBadge:

[GINO]

Any deformation in that area (ie dent), it is caused by one of or combination of the following factors.

 

The earcap pinching the thin bottom edge.

The rivet forcing the back/cap & face to align.

The neck trim forcing the back/cap & face thin bottom edges to align.

 

It all comes down to the two pieces not wanting to align correctly in that spot and something forcing them to.

 

When a faceplate is completely dis-assembled, that area goes back to normal.

 

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[troopermaster]

Good answers, but wrong.

 

That is the natural shape of the tubes and all original helmets are the same. Even the ANH Hero and ROTJ helmets have the same shape and they are made from more rigid ABS material. If it was pinching it would simply make the tube look tapered.

 

I have shown the difference why the original helmets differ from the replicas you produce, so I will leave it at that.

[GINO]

And I can't convince someone who doesn't want to be in the first place.

 

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[TK-4510[501st]]

[Amish Trooper]

It is still there! I love discoveries like this

[GINO]

This is how misinformation is spread. Unfortunate.

 

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[TK-4510[501st]]

For the record.... I am not claiming either opinion is correct. Just postin' pics boys!!

 

I will say this though.. Having assembled my fair share of helmets... Its completely possible that the bottom of the helmet would buckle. Some of the original buckets are so thin in the tubes and chin that they have crushed. Even the hero lids are made made out of thin ABS and warp. Sooooo it is possible.

 

I cant think of any practical reason for leaving the indentation in the tube, but they didnt seem to mind the other craptacular things going on with the lids either...

 

The ROTJ below shows no ripples. The crushed helmet shows just how bad it really was....AND I am not positive but I think the crushed lid is the Brian R...Although the lenses could be ESB???

 

[Amish Trooper]

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying it is still there and why?

[troopermaster]

I strongly believe that is how the shape of the tube is and it shows on all the original helmets. The bulge may not look so prominent on some helmets because the face plate is sat further inside the helmet on the right side so the tube looks shorter and you cannot see the bulge because the ear cap is covering it or is on it.

 

I will gladly hold my hands up if I am wrong, but I don't think so. The only way this can be proven is for someone with an original helmet to show us the face plate when it is removed from the helmet.

 

Just out of interest Gino, is the surface of your face plate mould smooth or leathergrain?

[TomG[501st]]

Sometimes. I´m glad, that I like more idealized symetrical helmet, that should look perfect.

[GINO]

Compared to the back/cap, it is relatively smooth, but not perfectly smooth. The surface is definitely not uniform.

 

The original faceplates do not have matching surface texture compared to the cap/back.

 

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[mods1965]

Great thread. Its very interesting to read and see the information that people have found out over the years.

 

I never noticed the marks on the face before. Here are some pics I took at Christies's in 2005 which show these marks.

 

You can see that the marks above the mouth are very clear on Move Along, but less on on Stop That Ship

 

 

Move Along

 

 

Stop That Ship

 

It may be the angle of the shot, but it does seem to be less of a dent

 

 

Stop That Ship also seems to be more narrow in the face then Move Along.

 

 

What would have caused this when they were built?

 

 

[GINO]

Yes, most people who aren't hardcore prop people don't realize just how thin and flimsy the original helmet and armor was. So much different than what is commonly available for fan consumption.

 

The real helmets would flex and contort, basically 'bend to the will' of however they were fastened together. The factors that cause the helmets to look different are:

 

- Sharpness of the vac pull of each of the helmets 4 pieces (there can be soft mixed with sharp within the same helmet).

- Trimming of the eye sockets, teeth, earcaps, and neckline.

- Assembly of the faceplate & cap/back as well as orientation of the earcaps.

- Detailing of the painted areas, or placement of the additional accessories.

 

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[JoeR]

Yes, most people who aren't hardcore prop people don't realize just how thin and flimsy the original helmet and armor was. So much different than what is commonly available for fan consumption.

 

The real helmets would flex and contort, basically 'bend to the will' of however they were fastened together. The factors that cause the helmets to look different are:

 

- Sharpness of the vac pull of each of the helmets 4 pieces (there can be soft mixed with sharp within the same helmet).

- Trimming of the eye sockets, teeth, earcaps, and neckline.

- Assembly of the faceplate & cap/back as well as orientation of the earcaps.

- Detailing of the painted areas, or placement of the additional accessories.

 

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Gino

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. I am sat here with my original Jedi helmet in my hands. The bulge Paul is talking about is NOT caused by the assembly of the helmet not is it from any kind of pressure the back/cap or ear stems. The 'kink' as I call it is 100% from the moulds. With the greatest of respect if you held an original in your hands this would become very apparent to you. I can only comment from the ROTJ perspective, having never handled an original ANH/ESB helmet.

 

 

I have pics of a Jedi faceplace on its own I will try to dig them out.

 

Joe

 

EDIT: Jez is the man to speak to, he has held double figures of original helmets in his two hands, he studies these things to a crazy level!

[GINO]

[Billhag]

No body MOVE!!, I'm just going to get the pop-corn!!!

 

 

 

[TK-4510[501st]]

Does FISD have a song like Manchester United???

[troopermaster]

This is how misinformation is spread. Unfortunate.

 

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So stop spreading your misinformation