Accessory continuity

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Wow, excellent work guys! As you know, elections start in a few days, meaning that probably no CRL changes will happen until they are done. However...

 

By ironing this stuff out now while elections are going on, if it's all "shovel ready" then by the time they are over, it means we can move fast to get stuff updated. Sound good?

 

I like it 

[CrookKnight[TK]]

Wow, excellent work guys! As you know, elections start in a few days, meaning that probably no CRL changes will happen until they are done. However...

 

By ironing this stuff out now while elections are going on, if it's all "shovel ready" then by the time they are over, it means we can move fast to get stuff updated. Sound good?

Sounds like a good plan.

 

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[kman[TK]]

I'm not one for videogames, so I'm not really familiar with all the variations.  Is Shocktrooper just a variant of the HWT we've been emulating?  Or is this planned to be a brand new CRL for a totally different character? (shock trooper, presumably) Those backpacks are dramatically different from the ones in the two HWT screen shot threads that are stickied in this forum:

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/15272-high-detail-hwt-screens/

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/6484-screen-caps-post-em-if-you-got-em-boys/

Edited February 1, 2017 by kman

[CrookKnight[TK]]

I'm not one for videogames, so I'm not really familiar with all the variations. Is Shocktrooper just a variant of the HWT we've been emulating? Or is this planned to be a brand new CRL for a totally different character? (shock trooper, presumably) Those backpacks are dramatically different from the ones in the two HWT screen shot threads that are stickied in this forum:

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/15272-high-detail-hwt-screens/

 

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/6484-screen-caps-post-em-if-you-got-em-boys/

This is one reason we are having this discussion as there appears to be many variances, especially when you review the pics from the new game. It is almost like we need to come up with different levels like V1 for the current pack from the older battlefront. V2 what appears to be a Shocktrooper Pack from the current Battlefront game, etc...

 

Thoughts?

 

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[Daetrin[Admin]]

Shawn - you are so reading my mind right now.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

This is one reason we are having this discussion as there appears to be many variances, especially when you review the pics from the new game. It is almost like we need to come up with different levels like V1 for the current pack from the older battlefront. V2 what appears to be a Shocktrooper Pack from the current Battlefront game, etc...

 

Thoughts?

 

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As much as I agree I'm not exactly sure how fast this will happen. At SWAT level in the Sandtrooper world there are a multitude of characters you can emulate however, this takes a lot of time, resources and a willingness of the command staff to accomplish, not to mention possibly more DOs to do the approving if it were to take off. At this point having all the ducks in a row in preparation for possible CRL expansion would be priority. 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Shawn - you are so reading my mind right now.

 

 

[CrookKnight[TK]]

As much as I agree I'm not exactly sure how fast this will happen. At SWAT level in the Sandtrooper world there are a multitude of characters you can emulate however, this takes a lot of time, resources and a willingness of the command staff to accomplish, not to mention possibly more DOs to do the approving if it were to take off. At this point having all the ducks in a row in preparation for possible CRL expansion would be priority.

Ok. I am sure this will not be a quick and painless thing. Just let us know the proper steps and we will slowly Chip away at it.

 

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

Ok. I am sure this will not be a quick and painless thing. Just let us know the proper steps and we will slowly Chip away at it.

 

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Gathering and documenting as you're doing is perfect.

[Alay[501st]]

I'd suggest shock trooper (the red new Battlefront guy) be a different CRL. As for HWT backpack variance, I'm not sure what best to go by... Probably original BF?

[magni[TK]]

My thought is it should be with the original battlefront 1 and 2. All these variants and optinal weapons and packs will drive a GML crazy! Plus these games seem to be changing and different not following any form of continuity. I'm all for keeping up with the times. But we need to stop the clock somewhere with this Trooper. But either way I'm just HAPPY the growth this character has gotten!

[kman[TK]]

I'd suggest shock trooper (the red new Battlefront guy) be a different CRL. As for HWT backpack variance, I'm not sure what best to go by... Probably original BF?

I agree. Different name, different setup, different CRL. Or at the very least a "partitioned" option (no mixing bits from each) in the main CRL.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Well, if it's more than just accessories then a new CRL is the way to go. Here is a good analog:

 

In the IOC there are numerous variations of what a crewman is like. All are encapsulated in one CRL (per jumpsuit color) with option choices getting tightened in L2/L3. However when there is a major difference in the underlying suit then there is a new CRL. The ISB officer is a different CRL even though it's a black officer with a different tunic.

 

Does that make sense?

[CrookKnight[TK]]

Well, if it's more than just accessories then a new CRL is the way to go. Here is a good analog:

 

In the IOC there are numerous variations of what a crewman is like. All are encapsulated in one CRL (per jumpsuit color) with option choices getting tightened in L2/L3. However when there is a major difference in the underlying suit then there is a new CRL. The ISB officer is a different CRL even though it's a black officer with a different tunic.

 

Does that make sense?

That makes sense

 

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[CrookKnight[TK]]

So, for example, I have been building and selling the Battlefront Shocktrooper Pack.  Currently, there is no option for a Shocktrooper Pack on the Shocktrooper CRL.  If we wanted to make this a requirement for Level 2 or 3, how would we do it?  I do have a build thread on it to show how it was constructed.  I am building a Version 2 at this time which will make a few things more accurate.

 

It is definitely worth looking into the variants of the HWT.  We should probably make some kind of matrix to identify them.  Similar to what Sarah has already done.

 

Thoughts?

[Alay[501st]]

In my opinion, we should make a functional split like follows:

 

Shocktrooper:

• Trooper emulating the red painted in new Battlefront
• Uses the "Shock Trooper" backpack
• CRL Matches the Battlefront trooper alone

Heavy Weapons Trooper:

• Trooper emulating the model from Battlefront 1/2, Empire comic*, Jedi Knight*, or the New Battlefront*
• Uses the Battlefront, Empire, or Shock Trooper Backpack
• CRL has to portray one of those "versions"?  (IE: pauldron, pouch count, backpack?)

 

*The alternative here is we draw a line in the sand and say it's the Battlefront 2 trooper, exactly, no alternative backpacks, pauldrons, weapons, or pouch configuration.  And says sods to Empire comic, JK series, and New Battlefront.

**Alternate alternate is we allow some level of mix and match but say it has to be one configuration for Centurion?

 

Spitballing ideas here.  I love the flexibility of the HWT as we have it now when it comes to pauldron colors and weapon choices, but I'd also like to keep our GMLs sane and our consistency spot on.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Alay

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Here are the basic things I have suggested as changes to the current HWT CRLs, (and why).

 

1.  Pack should be a MUST for basic level.  I have seen several "HWT" Troopers wearing an orange pauldron, ammo packs and carrying a large weapon, but no pack.  When questioned, I was told that "Well, some Sandies don't wear packs".  Well, HWTs are not Sandies.

 

2.  No drop boxes, even at basic level-  If you want to put all that work into becoming a HWT, this should be a minor change.  SInce holsters are not allowed even for basic approval, and most Troopers use elastic loops to hold them onto the belt, they can be easily removed and re-attached for trooping as a regular TK along with the holster.

 

3.  Eliminate TDs from the CRL completely.-  They cannot be worn with a pack, so why include them?

 

4.  Packs should be "weathered" for basic approval-  HWTs are "battle" characters.  When the armor is weathered and the pack is not, it looks strange

 

5.  No major geeblies, video monitors, flashing LED light displays, etc. on packs for basic or higher approval.

 

6.  Photos in main post updated-  This is in the works.

 

7.  Either eliminate the requirement for this or update the CRL with a detailed photo of it.  I can supply a photo of mine, and these are easily accessible in resin for pretty cheap.

• Sight shall be present on top where ribbing meets base.

8.  No antenna on the packs-  Or leave this as an option. I have one on mine, (as do most others at this point).  If the CRL changes do not not allow it, I assume everyone already approved would be "Grandfathered" in.

 

These are not radical changes, folks, and are still up for debate.  Some have suggested that we change the entire pack design completely to reflect the actual game exactly.  Perhaps in the future, but right now I feel the basic pack we have is not only acceptable, but the materials to make it are available to anyone without having to resort to 3-D printing and possessing an engineering degree in plastics manufacturing.  Just my 2 credits worth.

[CrookKnight[TK]]

Here are the basic things I have suggested as changes to the current HWT CRLs, (and why).

 

1.  Pack should be a MUST for basic level.  I have seen several "HWT" Troopers wearing an orange pauldron, ammo packs and carrying a large weapon, but no pack.  When questioned, I was told that "Well, some Sandies don't wear packs".  Well, HWTs are not Sandies.

 

2.  No drop boxes, even at basic level-  If you want to put all that work into becoming a HWT, this should be a minor change.  SInce holsters are not allowed even for basic approval, and most Troopers use elastic loops to hold them onto the belt, they can be easily removed and re-attached for trooping as a regular TK along with the holster.

 

3.  Eliminate TDs from the CRL completely.-  They cannot be worn with a pack, so why include them?

 

4.  Packs should be "weathered" for basic approval-  HWTs are "battle" characters.  When the armor is weathered and the pack is not, it looks strange

 

5.  No major geeblies, video monitors, flashing LED light displays, etc. on packs for basic or higher approval.

 

6.  Photos in main post updated-  This is in the works.

 

7.  Either eliminate the requirement for this or update the CRL with a detailed photo of it.  I can supply a photo of mine, and these are easily accessible in resin for pretty cheap.

• Sight shall be present on top where ribbing meets base.

8.  No antenna on the packs-  Or leave this as an option. I have one on mine, (as do most others at this point).  If the CRL changes do not not allow it, I assume everyone already approved would be "Grandfathered" in.

 

These are not radical changes, folks, and are still up for debate.  Some have suggested that we change the entire pack design completely to reflect the actual game exactly.  Perhaps in the future, but right now I feel the basic pack we have is not only acceptable, but the materials to make it are available to anyone without having to resort to 3-D printing and possessing an engineering degree in plastics manufacturing.  Just my 2 credits worth.

 

Joseph,

 

Well stated.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

1.  I agree.  Packs need to be a basic requirement.

 

2.  I agree.  The way I met this requirement was I purchased another ammo belt that I use specifically for HWT.  Actually, since I became an HWT, I have never gone back to a shiny TK.

 

3.  I agree.  I never wear mine.

 

4.  I agree.  Weathering (i.e. Battle Damage) is a simple process and the whole idea is that an HWT has been through battles.

 

5.  I agree.  I know we all add stuff to our packs, but most of us keep it hidden or make it easily removable.  i.e. E-11 clips to hold my E-11 to the pack.  I have seen some packs that go crazy with lights.

 

6.  Good.  Nothing like seeing a TD in the picture wearing a Sandtrooper Pack.

 

7.  Not sure what that is referencing.

 

8.  I personally like the antenna as it distinguishes us from all other troopers wearing packs (i.e. Sandtroopers).  Afterall, we have an old-fashioned style radio on our pack, so we must have needed an antenna to communicate with our Destroyers, right? Lol.

 

I do like the basic pack and think it should be kept as the main pack that is required for approval at all levels (I do like the option of a thick or thin base).  However, I do like the idea of having options to build or acquire different packs as an add on the the ensemble.  Kind of the same way we do it with the blasters and rifles.  Their is typically a main one and then we have acceptable "options".  This will allow for the variations while still holding everyone to staying accurate to the game.  This will also prevent people from making crazy looking packs and wearing them at events.  There is nothing like standing next to someone wearing a pack that has flashing lights, sounds and a bunch of weird looking attachments.  Of course, I may do this for fun every now and then.  Afterall, we are all in this to have some fun.

 

It is always difficult to keep a balance between screen accuracy and fun.  

 

Just my 1/2 cent. 

[CrookKnight[TK]]

In my opinion, we should make a functional split like follows:

 

Shocktrooper:

• Trooper emulating the red painted in new Battlefront
• Uses the "Shock Trooper" backpack
• CRL Matches the Battlefront trooper alone

Heavy Weapons Trooper:

• Trooper emulating the model from Battlefront 1/2, Empire comic*, Jedi Knight*, or the New Battlefront*
• Uses the Battlefront, Empire, or Shock Trooper Backpack
• CRL has to portray one of those "versions"?  (IE: pauldron, pouch count, backpack?)

 

*The alternative here is we draw a line in the sand and say it's the Battlefront 2 trooper, exactly, no alternative backpacks, pauldrons, weapons, or pouch configuration.  And says sods to Empire comic, JK series, and New Battlefront.

**Alternate alternate is we allow some level of mix and match but say it has to be one configuration for Centurion?

 

Spitballing ideas here.  I love the flexibility of the HWT as we have it now when it comes to pauldron colors and weapon choices, but I'd also like to keep our GMLs sane and our consistency spot on.

 

I do like the idea of updating the Shocktrooper to include the backpack.  Afterall, the Sideshow figure has this pack and it is worn in the Battlefront games.

 

I also like the idea of an HWT pack from Battleftont 1/2 (like we currently have) and the others can be options, like we do with blasters.

[Sol]

Looks like the T-21 would be dropped from the updated CRL?  

Not a big deal, but for me I like the HWT because it had the T-21 listed and I wouldn't have to weather the armor like a Sandy. So I could easily swap between two possible costumes by having two belts and polishing off the battle damage.  An ANH TK and then the HWT.  

 

I just like the T-21 so for me to keep it I'd have to turn sandy.  

 

I have no idea the number of HWTs out there, so it may not be a big deal.  But T-21 are fairly expensive if you bought one.  Wouldn't that cause a little grief removing it from the CRL for other members? 

[Alay[501st]]

Looks like the T-21 would be dropped from the updated CRL?  

 

Not a big deal, but for me I like the HWT because it had the T-21 listed and I wouldn't have to weather the armor like a Sandy. So I could easily swap between two possible costumes by having two belts and polishing off the battle damage.  An ANH TK and then the HWT.  

 

I just like the T-21 so for me to keep it I'd have to turn sandy.  

 

I have no idea the number of HWTs out there, so it may not be a big deal.  But T-21 are fairly expensive if you bought one.  Wouldn't that cause a little grief removing it from the CRL for other members? 

 

That's "to be determined", though it looks like the first round CRL changes as suggested by Joseph would be backpack only.  I'm mostly just spitballing ideas for down the line/gathering research here, so please don't take anything I say as having more weight than "Sarah thinks X... because she looked at some comics and video games"

 

That said, if we decide to include the New Battlefront trooper as a Heavy Weapon Trooper model, then conceivably it could be argued any equipable weapon in that game would be possible... as they can all be used by the wearer.  I'm not a huge fan of this as it's a bit too "anything goes" and includes rebel weapons.  That said, I don't see reason why the T-21/DLT-19/E-11/SE-14 wouldn't be fine as they're all Imperial guns in that game.

 

Again, just my 2 cents.

 

 

Here are the basic things I have suggested as changes to the current HWT CRLs, (and why).

 

1.  Pack should be a MUST for basic level.  I have seen several "HWT" Troopers wearing an orange pauldron, ammo packs and carrying a large weapon, but no pack.  When questioned, I was told that "Well, some Sandies don't wear packs".  Well, HWTs are not Sandies.

 

2.  No drop boxes, even at basic level-  If you want to put all that work into becoming a HWT, this should be a minor change.  SInce holsters are not allowed even for basic approval, and most Troopers use elastic loops to hold them onto the belt, they can be easily removed and re-attached for trooping as a regular TK along with the holster.

 

3.  Eliminate TDs from the CRL completely.-  They cannot be worn with a pack, so why include them?

 

4.  Packs should be "weathered" for basic approval-  HWTs are "battle" characters.  When the armor is weathered and the pack is not, it looks strange

 

5.  No major geeblies, video monitors, flashing LED light displays, etc. on packs for basic or higher approval.

 

6.  Photos in main post updated-  This is in the works.

 

7.  Either eliminate the requirement for this or update the CRL with a detailed photo of it.  I can supply a photo of mine, and these are easily accessible in resin for pretty cheap.

• Sight shall be present on top where ribbing meets base.

8.  No antenna on the packs-  Or leave this as an option. I have one on mine, (as do most others at this point).  If the CRL changes do not not allow it, I assume everyone already approved would be "Grandfathered" in.

 

These are not radical changes, folks, and are still up for debate.  Some have suggested that we change the entire pack design completely to reflect the actual game exactly.  Perhaps in the future, but right now I feel the basic pack we have is not only acceptable, but the materials to make it are available to anyone without having to resort to 3-D printing and possessing an engineering degree in plastics manufacturing.  Just my 2 credits worth.

 

Great list Joseph!

 

1: 100%.  Discounting Jedi Outcast (which I don't think we should use for much of a source, since it's effectively just a TK with a pauldron) all HWT representations wear backpacks.  They should absolutely be a requirement as it's one of the defining features.

 

2: I'm not sure I totally agree.  I think it should either be two pouches, or two drop boxes.  No holster.  Shoulder pouch required either way.  Similar to this guy. this guy. this guy. or these guys.

 

3: I concur, they don't fit under the backpack.

 

4: I can respect people wanting to look clean, so I think the option should remain for basic approval only.  But if the armor or the backpack is weathered, the other ought to be as well, for basic approval.  EIB/Cent should have mandatory weathering.

 

5: 100% agree.

 

6: Absolutely.

 

7: I do not follow what you're saying here, sorry!

 

8: Antenna should be nixed, it doesn't appear in any versions I've seen so far.

[CrookKnight[TK]]

But I love my antenna.....    

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

Please understand that I have never played any of the Battlefront video games and I realize that, like the films, each one has it's own nuances and differences.  I am only going by screen grabs that are apparently from the original one.  Ammo packs, no drop boxes,  all orange pauldrons, and the basic pack as seen here:  http://i.imgur.com/zc35PRZ.png So when I refer to HWT, that is one I mean.

 

Apparently there are a number of different versions of this game, including this one:  http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/William_Shawn_Cantey/Battlefront%20Shocktrooper%20Build/large_zpsfm8keqph.jpg, which is WAY different from what we have now.  Packs are totally different, no ab buttons,  no ammo packs, the spaces on the thigh ammo pack are painted black, and no one is carrying any sort of heavy weapon.  If someone wants to do this style, I say go for it, but we can't start combining too many different elements of different games.  It would just get too confusing.

 

I am not out to re-invent the wheel, just clarify and change a few things on the current CRL.  Nothing more, nothing less.

 

As for the mysterious # 7.......   On the list of allowed weapons, that statement is listed under the T-21.

[Alay[501st]]

Joseph, I agree, and I'm not suggesting we re-invent the wheel, especially not with this CRL change for keeping things standardized.  

 

However, we will at some point in the future need to decide what the Heavy Weapon Trooper exactly is, and who it's replicating.  

 

If that's the Battlefront 1/2 Shock Trooper class (the fella you linked an image of), and that's all it is, then we need to move towards a CRL that replicates that and that alone for weapons, pauldrons, accessories, backpacks.

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

That's what we are trying to do.  Pauldrons, accessories and packs.  Nothing more.  Like I said, if someone wants to suggest a completely different version for a different type of character, that's entirely up to them.  The only one I am interested in at this point is the one in the first link.  Will there be changes?  Yes.  Will they be drastic?  Not really.  As for weapons, if someone is an approved as a HWT at the time when T-21s are allowed, they can carry them as far as I am concerned.  We cannot be the CRL police, forbidding someone to carry a particular weapon,  we can only make suggestions.  As long as we provide a comprehensive CRL for people to follow we will be going in the right direction.  Will the CRL change again in the future?  More than likely, but we have to start somewhere and get it standardized sooner rather than later.