Accessory continuity

[ukswrath[Staff]]

There's been some discussion on another thread regarding keeping accessories consistent or standardized. I'd like to see some healthy discussion regarding the subject.

 

Please feel free to chime in and express whether you agree, disagree, have some concerns, etc.

 

Please keep it civil.   

[CrookKnight[TK]]

There's been some discussion on another thread regarding keeping accessories consistent or standardized. I'd like to see some health discussion regarding the subject.

 

Please feel free to chime in and express whether you agree, disagree, have some concerns, etc.

 

Please keep it civil.

What accessories are we talking about?

 

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[justjoseph63[Staff]]

We are in the process of updating the HWT CRLs and working on standardizing the packs, which are based on the ones seen Battlefront game.  For continuity purposes they should be more or less the same for basic approval through Centurion.  Some have elected to add various greeblies, lights, video monitors, etc. to their packs, which are fine to a point.  But, when you have 2 or more HWTs at one troop, and they look totally different the public perception changes, so we need some consistency.

If you look at a Sandie pack, they allow VERY little (if any) personalization in their CRL.  I am not saying by any means that we have to be that strict, but we have to draw the line somewhere and set some standards.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

What accessories are we talking about?

 

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Pack alterations or any other accessory or costume alteration. Just wanted to continue on with that topic without hijacking someone else's thread. 

 

In response to your comment on Shea's thread "....if you look at my pack in my EIB it's not visible and pack conforms to standards.", I agree and think your's is acceptable, you've designed it in such a way it disguises any alterations you've made  . My only concern is for those that don't know any better. There's nothing wrong with being creative as long as you stay within the boundaries of the CRL. In other words if you can't alter it without noticeably modifying, removing or adding to, then it's not permissible without 501st approval.  

 

Troopers need to understand when on a official 501st troop, or even in public where you could be perceived as a 501st member, your approved costume is to remain in it's approved state, with the exception of comfort trimming, etc. If you're at a non-offical event, away from the general public's eye and your garrison has given you the green light, then who cares lights away IMHO, though some will still disagree with me on this.

 

Anyhow, the purpose of this thread is to encouraging creativity at the same time remaining within the boundaries of the CRL.  

 

 

 

[magni[TK]]

Thanks for noting that my pack conceals all mods and matches the CRL Tony. I planned my stuff from the start so it stays hidden. Only used at non canon events Con's/ hospital visits/ Etc.. My concern is added items after approval. I shouldn't talk I added the E-11 bracket after I saw Shawn's. But that does look good and gets the blaster out of the bin. My only defense is, we're HWT's the more weapons the better! <br><br>

The main goal is that we look alike the best we can and follow the photo in the CRL. Which I've read is in the works to update with new photos to clearly show without confusion. I'm sure we've all noticed the sudden increase in popularity the costume is getting. Ironing this out now before it gets newbies going in the wrong direction thinking anything goes and getting disappointed later.

[CrookKnight[TK]]

Pack alterations or any other accessory or costume alteration. Just wanted to continue on with that topic without hijacking someone else's thread.

 

In response to your comment on Shea's thread "....if you look at my pack in my EIB it's not visible and pack conforms to standards.", I agree and think your's is acceptable however, you've also designed your pack in such a way it disguises any alterations you've made . My only concern is for those that don't know any better. There's nothing wrong with being creative as long as you stay within the boundaries of the CRL. In other words if you can't alter it without noticeably modifying, removing or adding to, then it's not permissible without 501st approval.

 

Troopers need to understand when on a official 501st troop, or even in public where you could be perceived as a 501st member, your approved costume is to remain in it's approved state, with the exception of comfort trimming, etc. If you're at a non-offical event, away from the general public's eye and your garrison has given you the green light, then who cares lights away IMHO. Though some will still disagree with me on this.

 

Anyhow, the purpose of this thread is to encouraging creativity at the same time remaining within the boundaries of the CRL.

 

 

Good idea. I can add to this discussion as i have been constantly researching the products that can be used. I can make a diagram of the pack and we can call out the components and what common materials were used. Unless th i s b as already been done. Just let me know if i can help.

 

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

Good idea. I can add to this discussion as i have been constantly researching the products that can be used. I can make a diagram of the pack and we can call out the components and what common materials were used. Unless th i s b as already been done. Just let me know if i can help.

 

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As we speak Joseph has drawn a diagram outlining the back components and approximate sizes. Maybe he can chime in and elaborate on that.

[CrookKnight[TK]]

As we speak Joseph has drawn a diagram outlining the back components and approximate sizes. Maybe he can chime in and elaborate on that.

Cool.

 

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[kman[TK]]

Thanks for noting that my pack conceals all mods and matches the CRL Tony. I planned my stuff from the start so it stays hidden. Only used at non canon events Con's/ hospital visits/ Etc.. My concern is added items after approval. I shouldn't talk I added the E-11 bracket after I saw Shawn's. But that does look good and gets the blaster out of the bin. My only defense is, we're HWT's the more weapons the better! <br><br>

The main goal is that we look alike the best we can and follow the photo in the CRL. Which I've read is in the works to update with new photos to clearly show without confusion. I'm sure we've all noticed the sudden increase in popularity the costume is getting. Ironing this out now before it gets newbies going in the wrong direction thinking anything goes and getting disappointed later.

 

I'll admit I plan to add a way to mount an E11 on the side of my pack, as well.  Definitely making it invisible, however, for when I don't plan to go that route.

[TK-16845]

Just a question Is this from now on moving forward or does this apply retroactively to packs already made having to follow the guideline as well?

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Just a question Is this from now on moving forward or does this apply retroactively to packs already made having to follow the guideline as well?

 

Hey John, it's always been this way, we're just revisiting the topic. Feel free to elaborate on what you've done so we can talk about it.

[TK-16845]

Hey John, it's always been this way, we're just revisiting the topic. Feel free to elaborate on what you've done so we can talk about it.

 

Thanks for the quick reply Tony. I haven't made any modifications to my pack as I followed the guidelines as best I could as well as looking at reference of many approved packs that you all have made. Was just curious about some packs with mods now.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Thanks for the quick reply Tony. I haven't made any modifications to my pack as I followed the guidelines as best I could as well as looking at reference of many approved packs that you all have made. Was just curious about some packs with mods now.

 

At this point we're just trying to get it under control and make sure troopers understand the dos and don'ts and answer any questions that may arise. 

 

As seen in all my tutorials and extra gadgets I'm a creative person. I like to invent things. Back when I first came to the FISD my first tutorial was illustrating how to make shin bra hooks from scratch. Someone stated I was trying to reinvent the wheel, my response was I wasn't, I was trying to find a better way to put it on the car. May sound lame but my point was and has always been to not stifle creativity. That said, we need to have a balance of creativity and staying within the CRL guidelines.

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

As we speak Joseph has drawn a diagram outlining the back components and approximate sizes. Maybe he can chime in and elaborate on that.

Here is a link to the thread I just posted with the diagrams:  http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/40081-note-on-hwt-pack-specs/

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

I would like to add that I appreciate all the positive comments on this thread, and that everyone is keeping it civil.  Sometimes these discussions can get a bit intense, as you may have seen on other threads, and it shows me that we are all striving to make this work out to all our advantage.  Well done!

[Alay[TK]]

I would like to add that I appreciate all the positive comments on this thread, and that everyone is keeping it civil.  Sometimes these discussions can get a bit intense, as you may have seen on other threads, and it shows me that we are all striving to make this work out to all our advantage.  Well done!

 

My pack is the best and all others are awful!  

 

I'd like to also remind all that the trooper in question we're modeling after is from a fairly old video game with some low resolution to it, so we should strive for a line between "Looks correct" and "it's absolutely this way" (at least without extensive discussion first).

 

While I love Tony's build pack thread, and my husband and I are basically using it bit-for-bit as a template for ours, I'd hate the community to move to a point where that ends up becoming the gold standard and any deviation within reason is unacceptable (Tony's build or any other build).

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

 

 

While I love Tony's build pack thread, and my husband and I are basically using it bit-for-bit as a template for ours, I'd hate the community to move to a point where that ends up becoming the gold standard and any deviation within reason is unacceptable (Tony's build or any other build).

I understand your feelings exactly, Sarah.  Do I have a few discreet greeblies my pack?  Yes!   Everyone likes to add their own little things to truly make it their own and make their pack stand out a bit, but I have seen things that are way beyond that.  There has to be a certain amount of consistency, though, which is why we have the CRLs.  Even there, it states that the pack should closely match the one seen in the series.  A few unobtrusive greeblies are one thing, but I have noticed everything short of a lighted disco ball used.

Imagine that you have 2 HWTs at a troop.  One has a regular pack, and one has a pack with a flashing light display, a video monitor with "Star Wars" playing (replete with stereo sound) and tons of extra added pieces, making it look way different.  It would look odd.  

Being a Heavy Weapons Trooper is great, and allows us a certain degree of individuality (which I am all for), but things can get carried too far, which is why we need to set some standards and continuity among us.  

[CrookKnight[TK]]

I understand your feelings exactly, Sarah. Do I have a few discreet greeblies my pack? Yes! Everyone likes to add their own little things to truly make it their own and make their pack stand out a bit, but I have seen things that are way beyond that. There has to be a certain amount of consistency, though, which is why we have the CRLs. Even there, it states that the pack should closely match the one seen in the series. A few unobtrusive greeblies are one thing, but I have noticed everything short of a lighted disco ball used.

Imagine that you have 2 HWTs at a troop. One has a regular pack, and one has a pack with a flashing light display, a video monitor with "Star Wars" playing (replete with stereo sound) and tons of extra added pieces, making it look way different. It would look odd.

Being a Heavy Weapons Trooper is great, and allows us a certain degree of individuality (which I am all for), but things can get carried too far, which is why we need to set some standards and continuity among us.

Nicely stated.

 

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[Daetrin[Admin]]

So, the path forward will come down to the CRL and guidance thereon. Joseph has made some excellent recommendations to the HWT CRL that are unlikely to get done until after elections next month, but we'll see what we can do. It's on my radar at least, so we're tracking it!

[Alay[TK]]

I understand your feelings exactly, Sarah.  Do I have a few discreet greeblies my pack?  Yes!   Everyone likes to add their own little things to truly make it their own and make their pack stand out a bit, but I have seen things that are way beyond that.  There has to be a certain amount of consistency, though, which is why we have the CRLs.  Even there, it states that the pack should closely match the one seen in the series.  A few unobtrusive greeblies are one thing, but I have noticed everything short of a lighted disco ball used.

Imagine that you have 2 HWTs at a troop.  One has a regular pack, and one has a pack with a flashing light display, a video monitor with "Star Wars" playing (replete with stereo sound) and tons of extra added pieces, making it look way different.  It would look odd.  

Being a Heavy Weapons Trooper is great, and allows us a certain degree of individuality (which I am all for), but things can get carried too far, which is why we need to set some standards and continuity among us.  

 

Agreed, uniformity and specification are good and should be striven for.  We need a detailed CRL.  Let me know if help is needed there

[Alay[TK]]

I've been doing some investigation into this myself today, and have a few things I'd like to ask the group on, as well as things to put forward.  I'd like to use this as a place to discuss what we're "counting" as a Heavy Weapon Trooper.
 
First of all, as I understand it, the Heavy Weapons Trooper is effectively the "Shock Trooper" class from the Battlefront 1 (2004) and Battlefront 2 (2005) games.  I will use this as the basis of my assumption for the ideal HWT.
 
Here's how he appears in both games, screenshotted by me today on a PC install of the games.
 
Battlefront

Battlefront 1:
 
Side:

 
Note the scout pistol (secondary) and the texturing of the side of the backpack (two 'squares', thick build).
 
Behind:

 
Note the differences between the circular "tube" in the top middle of the backpack
 
 
Battlefront 2
 
Side:

 
Side Notes:

 
Back:

 
Back Notes:

 

 
Using that, I'm making the following assumptions for HWT:

• Pauldron should be orange
• Scout Blaster is a valid weapon
• Rocket Launcher is a valid weapon
• Backpack has an oilpan-esque handle
• Thermal Detonator is present (though possibly not realistic since real life doesn't clip like the game would)
• Three pouches should be present.  Two on hips. One of torso.
• No drop boxes.  No holsters.
• Ab details are a bit different (more buttons on middle bit).

Other images purported to be the same shocktrooper exist however, going into detail on them
 
 
Dark Forces "Field Trooper"

Courtesy of Scootch
 
Here's a higher res closeup:  


This image is from one of the three Dark Forces novels (I believe Soldier For The Empire).  They had beautiful art inside, and were tie ins to the Dark Forces video game series.
 
They came in quite a few 'flavours" in that video game series.
 
Squad leader:

 
Orange shoulder pauldrons, square blocky backpacks.
 

 
The pauldron color denoted the weapon they would use:

• Orange = E-11 blaster
• Red = repeater
• Yellow = rail detonator

They showed up again in the sequel, Jedi Outcast, but sans the backpack

 
 
They also only seem to use the orange ("squad leader") pauldron in that game.
 

 
Interestingly, they also seem to use an LD-1 rifle from the old Star Wars Galaxies MMORPG
 

 
The field troopers aren't present in the games final installment, Jedi Academy.
 
Summary including the Dark Forces "Field Trooper" as reference:

• Orange, Red, and Yellow pauldrons.  Black pauldron exists in the Dark Forces art drawing from novelization.
• Drop boxes optional (Jedi Outcast has)
• No Holster
• Backpack optional (Not present in Jedi Outcast)
• Thermal Detonator present (again, clipping note)
• E-11 (Art, Jedi Knight), Scout pistol (Battlefront), LD-1 (Outcast), "repeater" (Jedi Knight), and Rocket Launcher (Battlefront) valid weapons.
• Pouches optional (not present on all, possible model size limitation).

As an aside, a backpacked Stormtrooper also appears around the same time in the video game Galactic Battlegrounds

 
 
Star Wars: Empire comic.
 
Another trooper style appears in the Star Wars: Empire comic, issues 5-6, during the Princess... Warrior storyline involving Leia.  The troopers are not on a desert planet, thus could potentially be related to our shock trooper Heavy Weapons Trooper.
 
Courtesy RogueTrooper
 
I was able to find the comic on Google Play and capture some stills of the prominent shots where the Trooper appears.

 
Notice the rounded backpack, similar to a sandtrooper design.  The troopers are carrying a DLT-19 and an E-11.
 

 
These two troopers both have white pauldrons, as well as drop boxes.  The one closer to use is carrying both a DLT19 and an E-11.
 

 
The only good shot of the backpack.  It's similar but still unlike the sandtrooper backpack.  However, it is also very unlike the Battlefront "Shock Trooper" backpack.  Probably an original design of the artist.
 

 
Another wide panel featuring a side view of the backpack.  Middle trooper firing the E11 does not have a shoulder pouch
 

 
One final shot.  Neither trooper seems to be sporting a backpack, though one is using an E-Web cannon.  Both sporting the black pauldrons.
 

 
Summary including the Star Wars: Empire as reference:

• White (Empire), Black (Empire),  Orange (Battlefront), Red (Jedi Knight), and Yellow  (Jedi Knight) pauldrons.
• Drop boxes optional (Jedi Outcast has, Knight does not.  Battlefront does not. Empire does.)
• No Holster
• Backpack optional (Not present in Jedi Outcast, Sometimes not present in Empire)
• Thermal Detonator optional (Not present in Empire?)
• E-11 (DF Art, Jedi Knight, Empire), Scout pistol (Battlefront), LD-1 (Outcast), "repeater" (Jedi Knight), DLT-19 (Empire) and Rocket Launcher (Battlefront) valid weapons.
• Pouches optional (not present on all, possible model limitation/artist overlook).

Further, I found this image when searching online of a shock trooper holding an SE-14r, with what looks like an antenna on his back.  I think it's from Battlefront 1 (CTF reference) but can only assume it's modded.  Any further knowledge on this would be appreciated:
 

 
I found no references to the T-21 in any material so far.  Any other suggestions of potential shock trooper candidates?
 
 
I made a little spreadsheet of my findings to help visualize:

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Holy Smokes! HWT has gone ballistic. I'm sure there's a few from the screen accurate crowd that are probably twitching at the thought of the HWT getting so much attention. Great work peeps.  

 

Nice work Sarah

[Alay[TK]]

And they said playing video games all day would never come in handy

[CrookKnight[TK]]

Wow.  Great information.

 

When you look at the current battlefront game, what you might call the Heavy Weapons Trooper Stormtrooper appears to have what is also being called a Shocktrooper Backpack.  Below are some of the pics from the game and a Shocktrooper pack that I build.  In the game this pack is worn by a stormtrooper with the orange pauldron, but can also be worn by the Shocktrooper.

 

From Battlefront.  Looks like Shocktrooper Pack.  Orange Pauldron.  1 Ammo pouch.  No Ammo boxes or pouches on Ammo belt.

 

 

 

From Battlefront.  Looks like Shocktrooper Pack.  Orange Pauldron.  1 Ammo pouch.  No Ammo boxes or pouches on Ammo belt.

 

 

 

Also from Battlefront.  Shocktrooper armor.  Shocktrooper Pack.

 

Me.  Shcoktrooper Pack. Orange Pauldron. 3 Ammo pouches.

 

 

 

 

It almost appears you can have many variants to the pack worn by the HWT's and some of the armor accessories.

 

I am running into the same issue with the Battlefront Jump Pack.  There are more than 6 variants of the pack as they are all based the armor being worn and if you are a rebel or Stormtrooper.

Edited September 16, 2021 by gmrhodes13
photo updated

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Wow, excellent work guys! As you know, elections start in a few days, meaning that probably no CRL changes will happen until they are done. However...

 

By ironing this stuff out now while elections are going on, if it's all "shovel ready" then by the time they are over, it means we can move fast to get stuff updated. Sound good?