Rogue One Stormtrooper CRL

[Imperial Valour[TK]]

On 9/20/2018 at 1:42 PM, 11b30b4 said:

I would also like to mention (in case someone does not know) there are two groups/ companies working vacuum formed Rogue One TK kits. The first is NaturalBornDT and his group The DarkSide Closet and 850 Armor works. The other company is Head Shot Props (HSP). both of these kits look promising and I will be getting one or both kits. These kits should not have some of the issues noted with the fibergalss kit but they may have other issues. I will not know until I get my hands on them. So for people to be able to produce kits for us, there needs to be a standard that does not go through frequent revisions. If we make too many changes, these kits will never get made and we will be as limited as we currently are. Now that Solo has come and gone, perhaps someone will get their hands on one of the Solo TKs and we can learn a lot from it (fingers crossed). 

 

While we are talking about other kits, I contacted HSP and asked about rubber shoulder straps like the clone armor guys have as well as Rogue One versions of rubber handguards. They are looking into making these for the Rogue One TK kits and as an add on for other ROTK kits like Jim's kit. As far as CRLs are concerned, if these rubber options look the same as the existing stuff, I see no reason they would not be approved by 501st/ FISD. As long as we do not restrict them in the CRLs they should be allowed. 

I will be eagerly awaiting your verdict on the Head Shot Props Rogue One TK kit. I read your entire build and noted how you had some issues with the fibreglass. I saw that kit on Etsy and was unsure whether it could pass muster. 

 

On a sidenote, is there a spot on the forum that critiques ABS vs fibreglass for armour?

[ukswrath[Staff]]

19 hours ago, Imperial Valour said:

I will be eagerly awaiting your verdict on the Head Shot Props Rogue One TK kit. I read your entire build and noted how you had some issues with the fibreglass. I saw that kit on Etsy and was unsure whether it could pass muster. 

 

On a sidenote, is there a spot on the forum that critiques ABS vs fibreglass for armour?

I've worked with both armor types and I'd personally go ABS.

[11b30b4[TK]]

Imperial Valour, you may want to message 850 Armor Works and HSP to get a time frame on when these will be available. I paid for a chest plate and ammo belt with 850 last year before DragonCon and have still not received them. When I contact them they say they are still working on the bucks. They have offered to refund me but I am fine to wait. However, I still have no idea when (if ever) I will see my parts.

 

I do not think anyone has done a comparison between the flexible fiberglass and the ABS. I will say that I have vacuum formed Mandalorian armor in both ABS and HIPS. Comparing the three materials, the ABS seems the most resilient. In my experience, the flexible fiberglass will crack at stress points if it is flexed often (like putting it on and taking it off). Additionally, since the fiberglass must be painted, the paint can crack when flexed as well. I used automotive paint so that is not a huge issue with me but I would think that spray paint would crack when flexed.

 

ABS vs HIPS. Originally the standard TK was formed with HIPS (I believe); however, many formers are now using ABS because of the cost. For example, a 4’x8’ sheet of 1/8” thick (.125) HIPS is $55.60, where a 4’x8’ sheet of 1/8” thick (.125) ABS is $35.20 from my supplier (Calsak Plastics). However, the ABS is not smooth on both sides. One side has a hammered finish (textured like a truck bed liner) and even if I form the armor with the smooth side up, the detail of the texture side comes through. This can be sanded but it would take a lot of work to make a TK kit with this textured stuff. Calsak can order both side smooth Abs but you must purchase a whole pallet of 100 sheets for this and that is a lot of cash. I know 850 is using the smooth both side ABS so their armor should be good to go. Another down side of the ABS is that it is mostly available in black. HIPS is glossy white and therefore no need to paint but most ABS armor will need to be painted.

 

Using Abs for Mando armor is not an issue since we mark up most of our kits to look extensively battle worn so the texture is more of a benefit than a hindrance. The last Mando kit I built I used a combination of Abs and Sentra. Sentra is a not a vacuum forming plastic, but you can shape it with a heat gun, so for Mandalorian armor it is idea and I have been very impressed with it. Hope this helps.

 

Ukswrath, agreed, I prefer ABS for vacuum forming.

[Imperial Valour[TK]]

10 hours ago, 11b30b4 said:

Imperial Valour, you may want to message 850 Armor Works and HSP to get a time frame on when these will be available. I paid for a chest plate and ammo belt with 850 last year before DragonCon and have still not received them. When I contact them they say they are still working on the bucks. They have offered to refund me but I am fine to wait. However, I still have no idea when (if ever) I will see my parts.

 

I do not think anyone has done a comparison between the flexible fiberglass and the ABS. I will say that I have vacuum formed Mandalorian armor in both ABS and HIPS. Comparing the three materials, the ABS seems the most resilient. In my experience, the flexible fiberglass will crack at stress points if it is flexed often (like putting it on and taking it off). Additionally, since the fiberglass must be painted, the paint can crack when flexed as well. I used automotive paint so that is not a huge issue with me but I would think that spray paint would crack when flexed.

 

ABS vs HIPS. Originally the standard TK was formed with HIPS (I believe); however, many formers are now using ABS because of the cost. For example, a 4’x8’ sheet of 1/8” thick (.125) HIPS is $55.60, where a 4’x8’ sheet of 1/8” thick (.125) ABS is $35.20 from my supplier (Calsak Plastics). However, the ABS is not smooth on both sides. One side has a hammered finish (textured like a truck bed liner) and even if I form the armor with the smooth side up, the detail of the texture side comes through. This can be sanded but it would take a lot of work to make a TK kit with this textured stuff. Calsak can order both side smooth Abs but you must purchase a whole pallet of 100 sheets for this and that is a lot of cash. I know 850 is using the smooth both side ABS so their armor should be good to go. Another down side of the ABS is that it is mostly available in black. HIPS is glossy white and therefore no need to paint but most ABS armor will need to be painted.

 

Using Abs for Mando armor is not an issue since we mark up most of our kits to look extensively battle worn so the texture is more of a benefit than a hindrance. The last Mando kit I built I used a combination of Abs and Sentra. Sentra is a not a vacuum forming plastic, but you can shape it with a heat gun, so for Mandalorian armor it is idea and I have been very impressed with it. Hope this helps.

 

Ukswrath, agreed, I prefer ABS for vacuum forming.

So per a conversation with both sellers through Etsy, here is a status update on Rogue One TK armour for both stores. 850 Armor Works estimates that kits will ready by late spring and said they will begin posting updates on Facebook later on this month. HSP has finished the helmet and is working on the armour, no timeline was given.

I was already on the fence about the fibreglass so I will wait for these ABS kits to come out.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

2 hours ago, Imperial Valour said:

So per a conversation with both sellers through Etsy, here is a status update on Rogue One TK armour for both stores. 850 Armor Works estimates that kits will ready by late spring and said they will begin posting updates on Facebook later on this month. HSP has finished the helmet and is working on the armour, no timeline was given.

I was already on the fence about the fibreglass so I will wait for these ABS kits to come out.

For the record it's just a matter of preference for me, I'm not discounting the fiberglass. Every kit has it's pros and cons

[11b30b4[TK]]

Outstanding, I was considering making my own vacuum formed kit but getting the smooth both side ABS is way too expensive for me. I noticed that I forgot to mention that 1 4'x8' sheet will produce (roughly) 1 set of ANH TK armor. As for the ROTK armor, I was able to snag a black series RO helmet off Amazon for $49.00 last year. I plan on modifying it for a ABS armor build once I get the armor. I plan on keeping my Jimmy kit shinny white but the ABS will get weathered. Also, for anyone who does not know, I have made some urethane rubber shoulder straps to replace the fiberglass ones since they cracked last year. I am still perfecting the process but once they are ready for prime time, I will make them available to whomever wants them. More details in my ROTK build thread here on FISD. Not really looking to make money or push sales in anyway, they will go for cost basically and I just wanted to make them available to all who want them.

 

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

Curious if this has been discussed, but I noticed that studio suits used on set for The Mandalorian were not closed at the back of the thigh using velcro, as is called for in the ROTK CRL - they were actually left open, overlapping, and utilized elastic to hold the backs shut, but allowing for flex. Has this been discussed anywhere else? We didn't get an official word, but it was heavily implied that the suits were reused from Solo and/or R1. I have seen the attached photo from CE, and it looks like there is a tiny bit of velcro visible on the right thigh, but what I saw was definitely contrary. Thoughts?

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by TheRascalKing

[ukswrath[Staff]]

If additional photos of R1 screen troopers with alternative materials being used were brought forth then most likely a change in the CRL could happen.

[TheRascalKing[TK]]

8 minutes ago, ukswrath said:

If additional photos of R1 screen troopers with alternative materials being used were brought forth then most likely a change in the CRL could happen.

Gotcha, good point. No photos yet, just observations! Prepare for discussion after the show comes out  Still lots to learn about the Anthology style TKs...

[SlyFox740[TK]]

This is from the Rogue One Stormtrooper display at Celebration Europe

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

None of the armor parts from the Disney-era troopers close at the back with velcro. That includes forearms, biceps, shins, and as you'd expect thighs. However, the system used is difficult for us to recreate as it relies on the use of a flexible material but combined with the benefits of injection molding.

Edited July 10, 2019 by The5thHorseman

[Parquette[TK]]

18 hours ago, The5thHorseman said:

None of the armor parts from the Disney-era troopers close at the back with velcro. That includes forearms, biceps, shins, and as you'd expect thighs. However, the system used is difficult for us to recreate as it relies on the use of a flexible material but combined with the benefits of injection molding.

This is in fact false. The shore trooper biceps have been found to contain velcro strips underneath the rear trim, just below the complex elastic string system. There are plenty of closeups of this. Same would most likely go for the stormtroopers, as they have the same undercuts (just different color) and aside from the addition of the thighs, should be no difference. 

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

4 hours ago, Parquette said:

This is in fact false. The shore trooper biceps have been found to contain velcro strips underneath the rear trim, just below the complex elastic string system. There are plenty of closeups of this. Same would most likely go for the stormtroopers, as they have the same undercuts (just different color) and aside from the addition of the thighs, should be no difference. 

Yeah, I remember small tabs of velcro being there for the shins. Not for the biceps though. But in my opinion those are most likely add-ups done after the parts were made in order to simplify and make the closure easier (and maybe more effective too). The 'as designed' closure systems were done in a way that wouldn't require any velcro.

[Parquette[TK]]

I now have definitive PROOF the helmets are asymmetrical!!! 

 

Below is my thread breaking down (with photos) how they are actually assymetrical, confirmed by Ian Reach who found out that Glyn Dillon STATED he did this intentionally.

 

 

I would like to propose that we make this EIB and/or Centurion, for the most accurate details possible. 

[darthcue[TK]]

I now have definitive PROOF the helmets are asymmetrical!!! 
 
Below is my thread breaking down (with photos) how they are actually assymetrical, confirmed by Ian Reach who found out that Glyn Dillon STATED he did this intentionally.
 
 
I would like to propose that we make this EIB and/or Centurion, for the most accurate details possible. 

I second the motion!

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Sly11[Admin]]

I can see it yes, but do we currently have an R1 helmet maker that has this asymmetry of the eyes?

 Effectively anyone wishing to go to Centurion is hamstrung until such time.

We are not about making something unachievable for members to reach, and at this stage that's what could well occur.

 The best we can hope for is the few makers of R1 helmets see this thread and modify their molds to suit. (perfect scenario)

Perhaps Reese you can contact them directly if you haven't already and plant the seed.( Jimmi  is the main one that comes to mind)

Don't get me wrong, you have something very tangible here for sure, and something that can be added to the CRL when it is fare and attainable by applicants. In fact if makers do the modification and produce the eyes asymmetrically, then it would become a standard and potentially be included at basic.

Thank you for posting this.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

As Andrew points out there can be some back and forth between the prop makers we rely on and our standards.  There is no point in making a standard that it impossible or extremely hard to achieve without a lot of money or custom work.  On the other hand, the prop makers have certainly responded to the increase in our CRL and EI requirements over time.  They do not ship plastic belts, oversized black ab-plate buttons, and single piece back plates like they used to because we no longer allowed them at L1 CRL.

 

So Andrew is correct that the positive path is to push the state of the art forward in concert with the suppliers as best they can be met.

[Parquette[TK]]

4 hours ago, Daetrin said:

As Andrew points out there can be some back and forth between the prop makers we rely on and our standards.  There is no point in making a standard that it impossible or extremely hard to achieve without a lot of money or custom work.  On the other hand, the prop makers have certainly responded to the increase in our CRL and EI requirements over time.  They do not ship plastic belts, oversized black ab-plate buttons, and single piece back plates like they used to because we no longer allowed them at L1 CRL.

 

So Andrew is correct that the positive path is to push the state of the art forward in concert with the suppliers as best they can be met.

That's why I propose that we apply it to only EIB or Centurion, as it's too subtle for basic, but incredibly crucial to the accuracy of higher ups.

 

However, I have applied bondo and sanded it to a perfect finish on my bucket for very cheap, and it works wonders. I'll update my HOWTO thread this weekend showcasing this. 

[Sly11[Admin]]

11 minutes ago, Parquette said:

That's why I propose that we apply it to only EIB or Centurion, as it's too subtle for basic, but incredibly crucial to the accuracy of higher ups.

 

However, I have applied bondo and sanded it to a perfect finish on my bucket for very cheap, and it works wonders. I'll update my HOWTO thread this weekend showcasing this. 

Good work Reece, How to guides are exactly what we need to make things that seem hard to many, easier to understand and more achievable. Its a great start.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

5 minutes ago, Sly11 said:

Good work Reece, How to guides are exactly what we need to make things that seem hard to many, easier to understand and more achievable. Its a great start.

Damn - beat me to it!  Truth - can't wait to see it Reece - lead the way!!!!

[DarthBiscuit[TK]]

@Sly11 and @gmrhodes13, I couldn't add anymore CRL stuff to the other thread, since it's closed. Andrew, I know you said the CRL would be unlocked for a few days, almost a week ago, but I noticed something else that I thought I'd point out. I still can't access 501st pages yet, but since I'm currently working on my R1TK, I've scrutinized the CRLs and images for several months to get mine right. Hopefully that gives some weight to my input.

 

The CRL explains that the TD "has a...grey "D" shaped recessed on the right side...an oval greeble that protrudes from the control near the top left side." Those are switched and the greeble should be on the right and the "D" on the left (pictured in the below screen caps).

 

 

 

 

Also, the CRL clarifies colors on the abdomen barrel. Specifically, it states that "the center front detail...there is a vertical column...with a recessed trapezoid at the top of the column. The rectangular inside bottom of the trapezoid is blue." Images I have seen look much darker than blue, at least light gray, possibly as dark as black.

 

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

Agreed on the TD details and rectangle appears black on ab details. I think Andrew @Sly11 was going to close the CRL so these may be a little late.

 

[DarthBiscuit[TK]]

I also laid out my ammo boxes with 1" webbing on the left and 2" elastic on the right. I think this helps show how 1" just doesn't look right...

[Sly11[Admin]]

Straps were changed to approx 2 ", I'll have to check the CRL is accessible to adjust anything else but thank you for the input.

[DarthBiscuit[TK]]

Straps were changed to approx 2 ", I'll have to check the CRL is accessible to adjust anything else but thank you for the input.

Great! You had commented that it was changed, then commented that there's ongoing debate about it, so I wasn't sure.