TM Armor Buying Experience

[Cricket[TK]]

At the suggestion of a few admins here in the FISD, I’ve decided to post a review of my recent experience with ordering a TK kit with Paul/Troopermaster.  My intent is not to throw Paul under the bus.  Rather, it is to make other people aware of what to expect when it comes to customer service when ordering from Paul.  I am sure that he is undoubtedly a nice guy in person, and certainly immensely talented with what he does.  I am still a fan of his work, but I will not attempt to purchase any armor from him in the future. 

 

I paid on Apr. 21.  He said it would be 3-4 weeks after payment that the order typically ships, with an additional 4 weeks for a completed lid.  Okay, fine, so I sent the funds for a kit w/ completed lid.  First there was a delay due to his kitchen remodel.  Then a few weeks later he said he was very busy, but my kit was done, and he was about to start my lid.  A few weeks after that, he said the lid was done, but he was waiting on new lens material (of which I had requested that the lenses would not be installed).  A few weeks after that, I heard that he'd broken his foot, so I contacted him for an update.  He said that he would provide everyone refunds if he could, but he didn't have the money to do so.  He wrote that he honestly didn't know when my order would be ready at that moment in time. That was on July 6, and I told him to take care of himself, and I would check back in a few weeks.

 

Four days later, I noticed that Paul had put up two helmets for sale in the FISD forum.  One was a Hero helmet.  I was actually excited to see this because I figured that Paul had received the lens material he had told me that he was waiting on.  I sent a message to Paul politely asking for a status update.  I thought that my kit must be ready, and I was excited about it!

 

He responded rhetorically with, "Am I not allowed to work on helmets for myself while working for other people?"

 

I responded as follows:

Cricket- Sent 10 July 2016 - 05:52 PM

No, that's not it at all.

 

First thing, email sucks for communication.  The tone of it can be totally misconstrued.  I hope that you didn't read any sort of snarkiness in my message, because there was none.  And there is none now.

 

Second, I don't know how you fulfill orders.  I assumed that you processed commissions in the order in which they are paid (first in- first out).  If this isn't accurate, please let me know so I'm clear on what to expect. 

 

Third, I had also assumed that you were completely laid up due to your foot injury, and thus unable to complete any work.  I am truly sorry about your foot.  I see you're able to ship items, so it's not unreasonable for me to assume that something might be going on with my kit.

 

Fourth, you had told me that my kit was ready and the only item pending were the lenses (of which I had requested that the lenses not be installed).  I'm just asking you to see this from my perspective:  I'm seeing a completed lid for sale, and all my fully paid kit needed was a completed lid.  So it wouldn't be unreasonable for me to at least ask about what's happening with my kit, wouldn't you say?

 

And lastly, my only sister passed away very unexpectedly a few weeks ago.  When you told me that my kit would be shipping soon, it was the first time I had felt a glimmer of happiness since her death.  I was very disappointed when you recently said that my kit would be delayed, but I've been trying to be understanding for your situation.  As you might expect, I was excited when I saw you listing your helmets here.  I thought there might be a chance that you'd be shipping my kit soon.  It seems like that's not the case.

 

Sorry if I've come across as anything else but curious about my kit.

 (end message) 

 

I saw that he read my email.  I expected at least some sort of reply.  But he did not respond to it.  After thinking about it for a few hours, I had a huge fear that my kit would never arrive.  Especially since just 4 days earlier on July 6 he had written that he feels like giving everyone refunds if he could afford it but he couldn't and that he honestly didn't know when my order would be ready at that moment in time.  This was after he had told me that my kit was already done and we were just waiting on lenses on June 18.  He had told me two entirely different things about the status of my kit.  Now it was July 10, and I was inclined to believe that the kit would not be coming at all.

I had paid via Friends and Family on April 21, and I had no recourse via Paypal.  I was angry at this point because I have been nothing but patient with Paul since April, even when he didn’t communicate with me.  I was left feeling like my only choice was to make the very difficult decision to get my money back.  I opened a dispute with AMEX on July 10.

 

On July 11, since Paul had sent me a refund of (redacted), I canceled my dispute with American Express.  However, on July 13, I received notice that Paypal had opened a claim based on the AMEX dispute.  I was confused about this, because I had canceled the dispute two days before.  As soon as I received the Paypal notification, I sent Paul the a message about the mix up.

 

He said that his PayPal account was suspended until the case is resolved. He then said that if I had only asked for a refund without going over my head, it would have been much easier.  How much easier would it have been for him to say my kit was boxed and ready to go?  I was very polite with my question regarding the status of my kit, and I had been 100% understanding of all the delays he complained about.  I said before that I was willing to wait, and I wasn't trying to be pushy.

 

Paul then added that my kit was boxed and ready to ship the day I asked for the refund. He continued that the hero helmet he was selling was one he assembled by mistake for a customer who I later found out wanted a kit, so it was going spare.   If my kit was ready to ship, then why did he respond with, "Am I not allowed to work on helmets for myself while working for other people?"  Had he told me that, I would have never opened the dispute in the first place.  He was saying two different things.

 

By asking for a refund, I am out four months of waiting and almost $300 due to the exchange rate and non-refundable fees involved with using my AMEX.   

 

None of this would have happened if he had communicated with me in a straightforward fashion.  I asked for an update to my order, and he virtually bit my head off.  I would have gladly canceled the dispute if he had just let me know what was going on.  I made things very clear that all I wanted was the kit and that I was a huge fan of his. 

 

For those of you who may consider purchasing armor from Paul/Troopermaster, please take my experiences here under consideration.  I know that we all go through tough times in our lives, so this may have all taken place during a rough spot in Paul’s life.  I feel badly for him, actually.  Still, it’s no excuse for unprofessional behavior.

 

Bottom line: Proceed with caution.  If you decide to buy something from Paul, be sure to use the Goods and Services option rather than Friends and Family, and be prepared to wait in silence.   Never once did I receive an update from him without me asking him first what was going on.  And sometimes I would not receive any reply at all to my questions.  I am sure that Paul is a very nice guy in person, and certainly quite talented.  However, his lack of professionalism and poor communication leave a lot to be desired.  

Edited July 20, 2016 by Cricket

[firebladejedi[TK]]

I'm sorry how this panned out for you...<br><br>

However what is sent in a private message is best kept, how do you say? Private. <br><br>

I could keep you entertained all night about my exploits with TE....

[Cricket[TK]]

Several admins here strongly suggested that I post about this experience so others may know what to possibly expect when purchasing.  I would not have put this review here without their support.  The best way I could keep it objective is to put everything out there.  (All pricing and names have been removed.)

[sylverbard[TK]]

1- which admins? I'm hugely disappointed in them. So much for a forum not playing favourites with vendors. Is TM still on the vetted vendor list?

 

Since you have no problem posting personal conversations transparency dictates those be public.

 

 

2- this post is a breach of so much etiquette ...posting private convos without permission.

 

3- has the fisd suddenly decided to allow mudslinging publically of vendors?

 

4- you didnt remove all mention of money.

 

5- a reporting of fact mixed with personal diatribe is helpful. You wanted to hurt his business. You say you don't care that he's broke, then say you feel sorry for him, actually.

Edited July 20, 2016 by sylverbard

[Cricket[TK]]

Hi Mark, 

 

1. I've asked the admins if I can list them here.
 

2. I wasn't aware of the PM disclosure problem.  I have edited the post to remove them and condense the timeline.

3. There is no mudslinging. This was my experience, and I was asked to share.  

 

4. The money listed was an error I missed.  I have removed it.  I suggest that you do the same.

 

5.  I never said that I don't care that he's broke.  I said that it's not my fault that he's broke.  I don't manage his finances, and I do feel sorry for the guy.

 

[firebladejedi[TK]]

FISD Rules and Guidelines:<br><br>

9. Confidential information is confidential. Do not transcribe, copy, or otherwise distribute information in private forums to third parties without permission.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

The feedback regarding PM's is valid and Christine is redacting her original post.

 

Mark, please refrain from making accusations on speculation. Any FISD member has the right to post bad experiences with a vendor as long as they are objective. If you want to be "disappointed", then you can chat up me and Tim as it was our call in the end.

 

Keep the discussion on target folks.

[troopermaster]

WOW!

 

Talk about trying to ruin me. Very poor form.

 

For the record, after a few setbacks (including my current situation having a broken foot) I was struggling to get many orders finished and would have liked to give people their money back so I could heal. I am supposed to be resting not working. I was frustrated with my situation and felt Christine was taking the high ground when I posted the helmets for sale which was none of her business. She was overthinking things and it angered me when she filed for a refund instead of simply asking me. I issued the refund instantly and now PayPal is still trying to get the money because of her Bank claim. My PayPal account is suspended while the dispute is resolved.

 

To make matters even worse, I got a 30 day suspension on Facebook so I cannot answer any questions or accept any further orders on there, so no chance of earing much money anytime soon. If anyone wants to take a cheap shot while I am down, now is your chance.

 

For those of you who have paid deposits for builds or kits and have any concerns, please feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks

[ukswrath[Staff]]

As most of us have witnessed lately buyer/seller confidence is struggling. As sellers we need to be upfront with our customers and attempt to be as transparent as possible. It is highly recommended there shouldn't be any money exchanged unless you have a product ready to sell and ship, you're assembling a product where there's labor involved, or the buyer completely understands the consequences, that's just good business practice. Buyers need to be aware that stuff happens and sometimes we (sellers) get in a jam. Be patient with us.

 

Communication is EVERYTHING and in this situation it appears to be a prime example of break down. 

 

Before the mud slings any further I encourage everyone to take a step back, collect your thoughts before speaking. If you make or have made a mistake, own it, you'll be more respected then if you point the finger.

 

My 2 cents 

[TK4205]

Don't pay until the item is ready to ship. Simple as that. 

 

As Tony mentioned, sometimes prop builders get in a jam. When you report the situation to paypal or credit card companies, you may just end up making the situation worse. 

 

I had a member, some years back, file a dispute for a prop that was lost in the mail. I went to give him a refund, but my account was froze. The prop came back to me because the member had given me the wrong postal code. It was a large box, and I couldn't send it back because my only credit card (paypal card) was frozen. After two hours on the phone with paypal, I was able to get a refund out to the guy, but I needed to send photographic evidence that the package was returned. It took two weeks after to get my card active again.

 

The member got back to me, wanting the mask, but I wouldn't sell until he contacted paypal to clean up his dispute. He never did. 

[sylverbard[TK]]

I don't think this or any other forum needs to be the place for kudos or complaints. Why?

 

We have zero control over who issues kudos or complaints. It's all honour system.

 

We cant tag other members for quick resolution.

 

Our charter and op have no terms or policies for relationships between buyers and sellers.

 

I've never seen a vendor / maker post " this member is crap to deal with" or " this member is awesome" again because this is a public forum.

 

I would really like to see things like this ...just...not part of the forum at all. Save it for eBay. Save it for PayPal. Yes I know vendors keep costs down by asking for friends and family. I know vendors keep costs down by selling with PM's and fb messages. I'd like to know which vendors claim this costume Income on taxes if it's over the threshold to do so. For example in Canada no tax needs collecting if the business make less than 30k a year. But income still has to be claimed.

 

But when we start allowing posts like this...I think we've stepped outside what this forum is for. Unless we're actually going to police the for sale area...we have no business Involving the detachment in disputes of any kind.

[Dday[501st]]

 

 

It really sucks that you had such a bad experience with Paul .

 

I've been working with Paul for the last (ever) since I first started and have never run into an issue.

 

I'm not saying it can't happen but just that I think you fell into a gap and it sucks how it worked out but this is 100% not indicative of Pauls normal business dealings.

 

Every private prop maker/producer can and does fall behind. Sometimes it takes a little extra patience and understanding.

 

From your post, it looks like you went about this level headed, and just things went twisted somewhere.

 

Paul is a stand up guy and always delivers.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

I don't think this or any other forum needs to be the place for kudos or complaints. Why?

 

We have zero control over who issues kudos or complaints. It's all honour system.

 

We cant tag other members for quick resolution.

 

Our charter and op have no terms or policies for relationships between buyers and sellers.

 

I've never seen a vendor / maker post " this member is crap to deal with" or " this member is awesome" again because this is a public forum.

 

I would really like to see things like this ...just...not part of the forum at all. Save it for eBay. Save it for PayPal. Yes I know vendors keep costs down by asking for friends and family. I know vendors keep costs down by selling with PM's and fb messages. I'd like to know which vendors claim this costume Income on taxes if it's over the threshold to do so. For example in Canada no tax needs collecting if the business make less than 30k a year. But income still has to be claimed.

 

But when we start allowing posts like this...I think we've stepped outside what this forum is for. Unless we're actually going to police the for sale area...we have no business Involving the detachment in disputes of any kind.

 

I disagree. JJ and Jonathan have positive feedback for the items they've sold, they also negatives plastered all over this website, where's the outcry to stop those? Let's be honest folks. If you're on the up & up with your buyers or if you're a jerk, in addition if you're a jerk buyer what better place to resolve unresolved issues. 

[sylverbard[TK]]

 

I don't know who they are, really, so cant comment. I'm bad for real names.

 

 

I'll rephrase: I'm against admin soliciting or encouraging feedback of any kind because it shows favouritism , and if admin does suggest, or strongly suggest, that kind of post that the post be sent to admin to read , correct anything that shouldn't appear in it, and then allow to be posted.

 

Let's be honest:. This thread should have four posts:

 

1- admin post, the following is a complain by a member. Only a response from the vendor is allowed.

 

2- complaint

 

3- response

 

4- admin post, thread locked, old continue in pm or other non public means.

 

5- admin follow-up, the issue resolved to both satisfaction. This post doesn't get posted until it's true.

 

Just like the better business bureau.

 

Make it a separate area for people to read if they want.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

I don't know who they are, really, so cant comment. I'm bad for real names.

 

JJ (JJArmory), Jonathan (Evilboy)

[sylverbard[TK]]

JJ (JJArmory), Jonathan (Evilboy)

Well I'm still waiting for my evilboy f11 from last year. But that's one thread. I'm not sure what JJ makes.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Well I'm still waiting for my evilboy f11 from last year. But that's one thread. I'm not sure what JJ makes.

 

JJ makes the F11D also. 

[sylverbard[TK]]

JJ makes the F11D also.

Ah. Ones fixing the others issues. Got it.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Bottom line it's been a rough year for everyone. Tensions are high, especially on the buyer's side. Thousands of dollars have been lost. On another thread there's been a few ideas how to curb what's happen and make future purchases a bit clearer and safer for all. I would like encourage everyone to focus on resolutions instead condemnations.    

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I don't know who they are, really, so cant comment. I'm bad for real names.

 

 

I'll rephrase: I'm against admin soliciting or encouraging feedback of any kind because it shows favouritism , and if admin does suggest, or strongly suggest, that kind of post that the post be sent to admin to read , correct anything that shouldn't appear in it, and then allow to be posted.

 

Let's be honest:. This thread should have four posts:

 

1- admin post, the following is a complain by a member. Only a response from the vendor is allowed.

 

2- complaint

 

3- response

 

4- admin post, thread locked, old continue in pm or other non public means.

 

5- admin follow-up, the issue resolved to both satisfaction. This post doesn't get posted until it's true.

 

Just like the better business bureau.

 

Make it a separate area for people to read if they want.

Actually not a bad format suggestion. Thanks for making it

 

FWIW, staff was approached by a 501st member and we provided guidance and a listening ear. It is entirely up to the member to decide if they want to post, our job is just to ensure the feedback is objective and accurate. As you note, our job is to be unbiased.

[TK4205]

Several admins here strongly suggested that I post about this experience so others may know what to possibly expect when purchasing.  I would not have put this review here without their support.  The best way I could keep it objective is to put everything out there.  (All pricing and names have been removed.)

I find it hard to believe that FISD staff would encourage anyone to air their dirty laundry in this manner. 

[TK4205]

Furthermore, in cases such as this, the FISD staff can only mediate. It would be a huge impropriety for a FISD staff to generate such a thread as this and then come to mediate on it.

 

I refuse to believe that any of our staff members would do that. 

[sylverbard[TK]]

Actually not a bad format suggestion. Thanks for making it

 

FWIW, staff was approached by a 501st member and we provided guidance and a listening ear. It is entirely up to the member to decide if they want to post, our job is just to ensure the feedback is objective and accurate. As you note, our job is to be unbiased.

Don't get me wrong. I can be disappointed in actions yet still be enthusiastically behind leaders 100 % . The scroll on my wall taught me it's OK to do both.

 

That format is what I used on a dnd board for player / judge disputes. It works and I'd love to see it used. Feel free.

[Dark PWF[Staff]]

As Paul (Daetrin) stated, he and I were the two Staff members/Admins that encouraged Christine to share her experience.

 

With regards to kudos handed out for armor makers, there are more than a few threads filled with them.

 

Check out the welcome threads for recommendations.

Check out the build threads which really are free advertising for the makers.

Check out the EIB/Centurion approval threads, which are also free advertising for the makers.

Check out the member signature banners (mine clearly promotes the maker of my armor).

Check out general discussions on hard armor anywhere on this forum, and you'll find kudos and recommendations for armor makers.

 

Sometimes, as human beings, the makers have hiccups.

Sometimes, they really turn things sideways, upside down, and fail miserably.

 

Mark, I do appreciate your format suggestion, just as Paul does.  It isn't a bad idea, and we'll likely have a discussion about it in the Staff area given the merit that it holds.  

However...  I'd say that creating a forum that is exclusively to be used for negative encounters may indeed, by its very existence, lead to more negative encounters.  

I'd like to anticipate that this is, and will be, more of the one-off variety of posts than a new staple of posts for people to read.

Christine has told her story.  Paul ™ has responded.
Additional comments on the thread probably serve no further purpose.