Clint's FNArmour Analysis

[Lichtbringer]

After some time in this hobby you will notice that that is not always correct.

 

To often i´ve seen people accusing others, just to find out later that they didn´t reckognized their own work (not to say they were plain right lying to push competitors out of the way). This range of illegal moneymaking is often a minefield.

[camprandall]

You're welcome guys.

 

As a minor update, I received this from Peter after telling him that I was going to indicate it was re-casted. I still suspect he doesn't know where his stuff came from, but that's a different matter from the point of this investigation. I responded with a link to this thread so we'll see what he says.

 

 

Can you tell me what parts are recast? You used the word similarities, does that mean they are just that, similarities or that they are recast? My parts were NOT recasted from Kevin's Armour and if they were I would not send them to experts to see that.

Edited July 20, 2016 by camprandall

[danrodjr[TK]]

Thanks for this information Clint, you did a nice job comparing the armor and your conclusions are sound!!

[UT Trooper[TK]]

Thanks Clint.  This is exactly what needed to happen, direct comparison with KB's kit.  

[Sly11[Admin]]

Thank you Clint, very professional mate and we greatly appreciate it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jreed1701]

The "new crowd" appreciates your efforts. For those of us whom don't really know what's what coming in, we depend on the community to guide us.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[jimmiroquai[TK]]

Rather than start another thread and just to complete this one, a friend of mine sent me these pics:

 

 

They are of Phasma shin extensions from FN/Peter (abs) and my Phasma shin extension (fiberglass).  Take note of the waviness of my sculpt of the central ridge and that of FN's.  Also notice the dimple in the right lower edge of the foot hole in my sculpt and compare it with the FN.  I'll let the 100% overlap do the talking.  

 

Thing is, as a sculptor, i can recognize my stuff almost right away, not by looking at the details we got right, because we all have that in common, but by looking at the details we got wrong, or asymmetries in our sculpts.  I even sculpt specific "tells" or what i like to call "signatures" into my stuff.

 

Anyway, either Peter is being misled that his stuff isn't recast, or he is the one doing the misleading.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by gmrhodes13
photos updated gmrhodes13 2021

[camprandall]

Thanks for posting Jim! Looks clear to me.

 

 

On 7/20/2016 at 9:51 PM, jimmiroquai said:

Rather than start another thread and just to complete this one, a friend of mine sent me these pics:

 

 

 

 

They are of Phasma shin extensions from FN/Peter (abs) and my Phasma shin extension (fiberglass).  Take note of the waviness of my sculpt of the central ridge and that of FN's.  Also notice the dimple in the right lower edge of the foot hole in my sculpt and compare it with the FN.  I'll let the 100% overlap do the talking.  

 

Thing is, as a sculptor, i can recognize my stuff almost right away, not by looking at the details we got right, because we all have that in common, but by looking at the details we got wrong, or asymmetries in our sculpts.  I even sculpt specific "tells" or what i like to call "signatures" into my stuff.

 

Anyway, either Peter is being misled that his stuff isn't recast, or he is the one doing the misleading.  

[BobasDent1138]

Thanks Clint for the great thread! This has been quite the process but very glad it's finally settled. I think Peter has no clue where his molds are coming from, that's my guess. Why would you willing send recast parts out for comparison with the originals?? Doesn't make sense. It's a bit relieving to see this come to an end and the community get pulled back together a bit. This was a very heated situation so now everyone can sleep a little easier..

[Cookie Nomster]

I'm still very new to this community, but when I first joined some months back, I read about re-casts and didn't understand the gravity of the crime and the corresponding outrage.  Of course I understood that somebody was copying the work, but I thought of it more as plagiarism.  At the time, I didn't have any knowledge of how much time and effort original sculptors put into creating these works of art.  Now, some months later and after seeing their build threads and ordering armor and helmets from different scuptors, I finally understand.  Therefore, I'd like to thank you for the investigation, and I fully support the conclusion.  

 

Also, I'd like to say that I really respect all those people in this community who invest the time and effort to create a viable product and then go about selling it while providing great customer service.  Keep up the good work.  

[TK4205]

I don't know why Peter sent me a kit and asked for a fair assessment. I told him early this morning what the outcome was looking like and haven't heard back. He's either delusional in his deception or has legitimately been taken for a ride by his partners. I think he should have a chance to explain this himself without us drawing too many conclusions yet because a re-caster sending kits to 501st members for unbiased opinions about re-casting is an odd choice. All of my correspondence to him again felt very open and he again asked for no filtering or pre-approval of my feedback. I wonder if he truly thinks it's legitimate armor. Not sure.

 

I can draw only two conclusions; Either he trusted someone and didn't know the facts, or he did know and has sold enough of these kits to make it worth while. 

[TK 69940[TK]]

Thanks Clint,

 

I can openly add to this, as it was my findings of FN ARMORS PHASMA KIT to be a complete recast of Jim's Phasma parts.

 

Peter sent me a kit and upon opening I compared and took the pics that were sent to Jim.

 

BTW the fingers or whatever he sent are completely poor quality and not at all anyone's that I recognize as I have both Jim Tripon's and Jim Sleeth's Phasma ( 3PO ) fingers.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jessica Bowyer

TK 69940 Canadian Garrison

Moderator @ Phasma Costumers  FB

Edited July 20, 2016 by TK 69940

[camprandall]

I can draw only two conclusions; Either he trusted someone and didn't know the facts, or he did know and has sold enough of these kits to make it worth while. 

 

That's basically how I saw it too.

 

Thanks Clint,

 

I can openly add to this, as it was my findings of FN ARMORS PHASMA KIT to be a complete recast of Jim's Phasma parts.

 

Peter sent me a kit and upon opening I compared and took the pics that were sent to Jim.

 

BTW the fingers or whatever he sent are completely poor quality and not at all anyone's that I recognize as I have both Jim's and Jim Sleeth's Phasma ( 3PO ) fingers.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jessica Bowyer

TK 69940 Canadian Garrison

Moderator @ Phasma Costumers  FB

 

Thanks! That's helpful.

[MayTheForce]

Well, I think both are copy-makers since it all comes down to an original design which wasn't their own originally. Anyway I think the true original designer/maker was well paid by Disney and that it leaves room for others to play around and make us more able to get one cheaper copy and have fun. Not sure if Peter knew where the design came from when he started and if he suddenly found out but he's selling his full lot until end of stocks. A buy one to get one free deal. Also, it could be because Anovos has opened its pre-order fo kits for next year delivery... Appart from this now annoying multiple conversations debate about what is what (in which I now finally participated unwilingly), the multiplicity of makers had at least this good advantage of dropping the price of armors to a more sensible level.

[camprandall]

On 9/30/2016 at 10:53 PM, MayTheForce said:

Well, I think both are copy-makers since it all comes down to an original design which wasn't their own originally. Anyway I think the true original designer/maker was well paid by Disney and that it leaves room for others to play around and make us more able to get one cheaper copy and have fun. Not sure if Peter knew where the design came from when he started and if he suddenly found out but he's selling his full lot until end of stocks. A buy one to get one free deal. Also, it could be because Anovos has opened its pre-order fo kits for next year delivery... Appart from this now annoying multiple conversations debate about what is what (in which I now finally participated unwilingly), the multiplicity of makers had at least this good advantage of dropping the price of armors to a more sensible level.

 

There is some truth to that, but I think there's a big difference between the category of everyone who makes a costume being a "copier" and someone who literally got their hands on someone's kit and cast directly off of it to then turn around and make money selling to the public. It's not just inspired by someone else's work, it's a complete replication. Whether or not he knew where the armor came from, it's pretty strange to build a business building production around a product of unknown origin. In this way, I don't think of FN Armour as just one among a "multiplicity of makers" because the other guys put in a ton of work making their interpretation of Stormtrooper armor while FN Armour skipped that huge step and went right to making copies of it and made a lot of very clear and adamant claims about where it came from that were clearly not true.

Edited March 5, 2021 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2021

[MayTheForce]

There is some truth to that, but I think there's a big difference between the category of everyone who makes a costume being a "copier" and someone who literally got their hands on someone's kit and cast directly off of it to then turn around and make money selling to the public. It's not just inspired by someone else's work, it's a complete replication. Whether or not he knew where the armor came from, it's pretty strange to build a business building production around a product of unknown origin. In this way, I don't think of FN Armour as just one among a "multiplicity of makers" because the other guys put in a ton of work making their interpretation of Stormtrooper armor while FN Armour skipped that huge step and went right to making copies of it and made a lot of very clear and adamant claims about where it came from that were clearly not true.

 

​I understand your point but looking at recasting threads, it seems that casting off directly from someone else kit is impossible. It looks like it needs lots of work before getting something. But as I said, I'm not a professional.

 

ps: ​I also need to update on the link I was given and what I previously said. It seems the buy one get one free deal is not on anymore. But I do assure you it was this weekend. [update after inquiring : apparently working with a coupon : 1FOR1 but not tested yet. Will open a new thread for this if anyone tried it]

Edited October 4, 2016 by MayTheForce

[camprandall]

Well, that took me long enough to get around to it. I finally sold the armor and donated the funds to charity. I sold it for $250 since I didn't want someone to worry about all the recast hooplah and also be able to replace parts if they need. I donated 103% of the funds to Maggie's Place, a really neat charity based in Phoenix who does a lot of work temporarily housing pregnant mothers who need help. http://maggiesplace.org.

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by camprandall

[TK4205]

Good call, trooper.  The sort of integrity is the very reason that the FN Armor failed miserably here. 

[Dark PWF[Staff]]

Thank you for the follow-up, Clint.  As always, you do FISD proud!

[camprandall]

Sure thing! Credit should really be given to Peter on this one. He donated the armor, shipped it to me for free, and then asked that it be given away or donated.