The recasting thread

[Darth Clouds]

...... its all about you and the kids who love to see it, ......

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Blood, Guts and Heart. Cordial relationship, honesty and compassion is most important. And thumbs up to you for giving away free lids to kids as well. Just to let you know that I respect and appreciate the efforts that you and the troopers put in to charity and bringing joy to kids and others, in their troopings. And the satisfaction that Tks derived from wearing the good quality armor, this satisfaction that trooper get is a reward for their trooping efforts to bring joy to others. Risking flak, but, bro, I am with you from the other side of earth.

 

And I understand the stance that this board takes.... because the subject of casting tk armor is gray and open to differed opinions..... which has been going on for ages. IMO, the admin and guys here rather focus the main efforts of this board on the here and now, trooping, bonding and charity. Life is short and unpredictable, make full use of every moment given.

 

Whenever I see arguments... here a story I heard over the radio in china... a real life story:

 

"A chinese guy left his home town province to work in the capital city. Before he left home that day, he had an argument with his dad who dotes on him, due to a difference of opinion.

 

While he was working in the capital; after sometime he began to regret arguing with his dad and saying hurtful words out of spite. And he wanted to make amendments.... he could have picked up the phone and apologise to his dad, but was reserved because of pride and ego.

Therefore, he delayed and saved his apologies for a festive season where majority of chinese workers will return home for visits. Afew days before the festive season, he went shopping for things his dad loved but never had. He planned to apologise to his dad personally, and give him these gifts.

 

So came the day he battled the crowd at the train station and boarded the train, heading home. Three hours more and he will be home.... then he received a call at his handphone.... his sister informed him that his dad had just passed away.

 

This guy never stopped regretting and kept wondering, what was his dad emotions and thoughts before passing...."

 

Peace and take care

[Runnriottt]

Thanks DC. Spot on.

[Guest weiBes]

Thanks guys, i have many friends who support me that dont speak out and thats fine. I know they dont want to be drug into this mess of words that in the end dont mean squat anyways. Life is too short and far bigger than some plastic formed in a certian shape, doesnt matter much to the masses. I understand thier beef with me and thats fine, but when people have to pay $1000.00 dollars or more for a box of plastic seems pretty wrong to me no matter where it come from, it only takes 4 to 5 hours to form a whole suit. I will be handing everything over later this year to two other people, I will still be in control of things but will eventualy let go and let them have everything. Hopefully since they didnt have a hand in its creation they wont be condenmed for it and i dont think it would matter much to them. I to support the 501st, though i am not a member, i have many good friends that are members and they are all very good people. Just to stay on topic, the armor is made from .080 gauge styrene and is very light and flexable to wear, the helmets are .100 gauge and built very rigid, yet retain the details. there will be a new hero helmet out later this year, that will be the last mold i make before handing things over. Then i will fade away leaving what i have done to others to form, take care guys. CAP

[Onigiri[TK]]

Oh, yeah...thats right out of the "if I cant afford it its OK to steal it" handbook.

Then try and justify because you think youre Robin Hood and AFTER stealing something you give some away to put a salve on your conscience.

Heres an idea...why dont you do like a guy did here today and go steal gas from the gas station..you kinow...fill up your car and then call over some other folks to fill up theirs because $4.40 is too much to pay and you like seeing the smiles on the faces of the folks you just 'helped out'.

Yeah, youre a freakin HERO...

Luckily this topic is about you as per the mods and Im addressing you. In a group thats supposed to be about helping kids and doing the right thing you have a set of brass ones acting like youre some kind of role model by 'helping folks out'.

Hide behind your moral ambiguity but a thief is a thief and those that support thieves are not doing so out of some love for you as a person but rather their own weakness of character at being able to get their plastic cheap....youre right ...its just formed plastic...and what a cheap thing to sell your principles out for.

The utter lack of character by some of the players here is pathetic.

 

 

 

 

Thanks guys, i have many friends who support me that dont speak out and thats fine. I know they dont want to be drug into this mess of words that in the end dont mean squat anyways. Life is too short and far bigger than some plastic formed in a certian shape, doesnt matter much to the masses. I understand thier beef with me and thats fine, but when people have to pay $1000.00 dollars or more for a box of plastic seems pretty wrong to me no matter where it come from, it only takes 4 to 5 hours to form a whole suit. I will be handing everything over later this year to two other people, I will still be in control of things but will eventualy let go and let them have everything. Hopefully since they didnt have a hand in its creation they wont be condenmed for it and i dont think it would matter much to them. I to support the 501st, though i am not a member, i have many good friends that are members and they are all very good people. Just to stay on topic, the armor is made from .080 gauge styrene and is very light and flexable to wear, the helmets are .100 gauge and built very rigid, yet retain the details. there will be a new hero helmet out later this year, that will be the last mold i make before handing things over. Then i will fade away leaving what i have done to others to form, take care guys. CAP

[FON]

If anyone who is against me would like me to be banned or gone just let me know and i will grant your request...

 

No problem mate. I'll be the one to put my hand up.. Bye!

[Guest weiBes]

LOL......To keep my word for your request.. Good bye. enjoy your $1000.00 dollar piece of $15.00 dollar plastic....LOL

I have better things to spend my money on..

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Nope I didnt miss anything and it doesnt make it any more right and once again COP OUT.

You can hide behind whatever moral ambiguity helps you sleep at night. Thieves are thieves and when someone is ripping off myself or those that I know Im gonna call em on it. Dont like it? Too bad. What it says between the lines is this "We know its wrong but we're not going to do anything about it because our plastic is worth more then our integrity"

Way to represent.

When the group fails the moral litmus then the individual has to take a stand. The 501st chooses not prosecute even though they know its wrong but nowhere does it say that the individuals have to allow it to go unchallenged.

It damages the hobby as a whole when this sort of thievery occurs and goes unchecked because of the moral myopia of fanboys more concerned with their plastic then with doing whats right

 

All recasting posts have been moved.

 

1. Don - thanks for clarifying the history of FX - we learn something new every day. The FX I got was from 2001 and had the older thighs - was this still GF at that point? Just wondering at what time the switch was made.

 

2. For those not in the 501st, please realize that this is a decisive issue within the club and don't paint everyone with the same brush, though it's true the 501st includes in it's membership some notorious recasters, I think this is slowly changing.

 

3. As Ed said the best defense is education. Even on a non-501st board like C-E or wherever where they can create ban lists and recaster lists etc., while it helps people on those boards it seems recasting is just as prevalent now as before. I've found taking a negative stance e.g. "recasting sucks and you're all thieves!" never works. Banging on Chris all you want, I don't think is going to change his mind.

 

I'd also like to remind all the 501st people on this thread that you're representing our club when you speak on the public boards. Saying recasting is great and bashing people who say otherwise is pretty negative, and doesn't bring credit to this hobby of ours. I know if I were new and saw this, I'd probably not want to join your little "club".

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Lastly, if you guys don't stop personal attacks accounts will be suspended until you cool out.

[Smitty]

My point of view is this. When you deal with a recaster. 90% of the time you are gonna be dissapointed with what shows up in the brown box. That being said, I would be really dissapointed to see the CAP line of armor vanish from the community.

[TK8114[TK]]

I find all the arguments on this ironic since you're all arguing about stealing something thats technically been stolen in the first place. Its not like any of us have the legal right to produce the white armor in the first place.

[riveting]

In the interest's of Education & to furnish anyone new to the hobby with some collateral base information, who may read the thread before deciding which side of the fence they fall.

 

Would some one firstly care to comprehensively outline what is meant by the term recast? inclusive & expanding on what it's Grey areas are?

 

many thanks in advance

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Everyone has an opinion Here is a summary of the ones I'm finding:

1.Recasting in general

1A. Everyone is recasting LFL so since we're all doing it, it doesn't matter who you buy from.

1B. Recasting is fine in certain circumstances, but in general is bad joo joo.

1C. Recasting of any kind is evil.

 

2. Recasting Other People's Original Work (If someone makes a part from scratch on their own (like sculpting their own TK armor)

2A. If you recast them, it's a recast and this is very bad.

2B. If they no longer offer it, it's OK to recast until they offer it again.

2C. Who cares just recast away!

 

3. Recasting LFL property (If someone recasts LFL property like a suit of TK)

3A. It's OK to recast them as it wasn't their work to begin with.

3B. It's OK to recast them, this is still considered "original" work and recasting them is bad joo joo.

3C. If someone else comes along and recasts that same piece of property (maybe a different suit), they're OK too as they just did what the other guy did.

4. Recasting licensed LFL items (like a MR Helmet)

4A. Who cares - it's a company, not a person.

4B. No, it's still recasting.

[riveting]

I find all the arguments on this ironic since you're all arguing about stealing something thats technically been stolen in the first place. Its not like any of us have the legal right to produce the white armor in the first place.

 

 

A fair point but that is more in the realm of IP theft = (intellectual property), Recasting is another topic on it's own although the two are inextricably connected

[TK8114[TK]]

A fair point but that is more in the realm of IP theft = (intellectual property), Recasting is another topic on it's own although the two are inextricably connected

 

I realize that. I was just pointing out the irony of thieves calling people thieves and thought it was relevant to the discussion. While this hobby wouldn't exist without said IP theft, sometimes I think people need reminders of that.

[Murray1134[501st]]

Wow, this is a really dangerous thread to respond to. Especially someone like me who knows only enough to be dangerous and offend people.

 

Now, I feel that if you are recasting another fan made armor sculpt, without permission, that is bad joojoo (as Daetrin put it ). My question is what is the opinion on recasting LFL suits and other screen used props from LFL archives, in order to have accurate versions of these suits and props available for us in the costuming and replica prop fanbase? Assuming the props were acquired in a proper and legit manner.

[missingpieces[501st]]

ohh, arguments over opinion! awesome! there is so much irony and double standard in here, i love it!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Double standard for some. I think the only thing that is clear is that everyone has their own opinion and will find whatever arguments they want to support it.

 

My argument against recasting in almost all cases is that it erodes our prop making ecosystem. If we don't have prop makers, we're out of a hobby. Unless you're in that extreme minority of people willing to spend years of their lives making their own stuff.

 

So for you folks saying it's always OK to recast, does that mean you feel it's OK to recast Stomper's E-11s? Is it 100% OK to recast clone armor? What do you say to these guys at a troop or con when you meet them, I really want to know.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Found this post by Skaught on the RPF. I believe it captures the situation in a nutshell

 

Some people consider making molds off of Don Post helmets to be recasting. Some consider measuring someone else's item with a ruler recasting. Some people go as far as calling original sculpts recasting, if its of someone else's design. It's simply, as the policy states, outside the 501st's scope to police an area with as many different opinions as there are members.

 

I invite anyone to PM or email me directly - feibao@gmail.com. I will reply to all messages sent.

 

Actually the policy states that we don't condone the activity. Next question then: does that mean that if the 501st doesn't condone such activity, that we can prevent the sale of such items on this board, as allowing them to occur means that we're condoning that activity?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

If it seems that I'm taking baby steps, it's because even though I founded this place, even though I have 4000 posts, even though blah blah blah, this is still a 501st forum, and while I still retain a lot of control (sorry Terrell), I can run this place by my personal fiat.

[TK8114[TK]]

Actually the policy states that we don't condone the activity. Next question then: does that mean that if the 501st doesn't condone such activity, that we can prevent the sale of such items on this board, as allowing them to occur means that we're condoning that activity?

 

Well unless the 501st commits to an actual definition of what recasting actually is, instead of the ambiguous definition that exists, which I might add is going to ruffle some feathers regardless, you really can't fairly police it and as the rules state its not your or the legion's job to do so.

 

Plus, if you look at it from a certain point of view, the 501st will always be condoning recasting as long as they allow members to be admitted with recasted armor. Granted thats the extremist point of view, which I don't share mind you, but I'm sure theres someone out there that would think that. Imaging trying to check every submission's armor for caster pedigree. YUCK.

[Crimson Phoenix]

After reading alot of threads and opinions on recasting, I've often wondered; why don't all the armorers just get rights to their molds. That way if people feel it necessary to recast off of the armorers, they can be prosecuted for it. Which would most likely end all of this bickering.

 

 

 

 

(excuse my poor grammar. )

[SuperTrooper]

After reading alot of threads and opinions on recasting, I've often wondered; why don't all the armorers just get rights to their molds. That way if people feel it necessary to recast off of the armorers, they can be prosecuted for it. Which would most likely end all of this bickering.

 

(excuse my poor grammar. )

 

Because it's LFL's rights. It's the same reason why SW artists can't make SW art to sell without LFL's ok.

[Hammer3246]

......... The RPF thread about THIS thread is now at 14 pages in length and .....

 

I looked, where is the thread at RPF about "this" thread?

 

Cheers

[riveting]

I looked, where is the thread at RPF about "this" thread?

 

Cheers

 

 

if your not a member over there you won't find it

[Hammer3246]

if your not a member over there you won't find it

 

 

But I am a member.

 

edit. needed 20 posts.