What in the world have I got?

[meekerscott]

Interesting. It seems almost like this is a non-consensual form of "payment" that RS must make in order to not be litigated for making unlicensed armor commercially available. Anovos (license holder) dastardly recasts the RS armor and LFL/Disney look the other way...

 

I am currently researching what armor I should get. I had Anovos high up on my list of considerations, mainly because it was one of the first ones I came across - being commercially available and all - and because it is affordable, there are lots of good tutorials on how to assemble it, and it looks pretty good. In light of this plagiarism, should I drop Anovos from my consideration? Anovos wasn't on the list of vetted sellers, but it also wasn't on the avoid list, so I'm just wondering how the community (especially other armor makers) feels about all this? I'm willing to do the right thing, even if it takes a bit longer to get my armor.

Personally, I think the Anovos is very high-quality armor and I'm quite happy with it. I try to not get tied up in the politics too much, yet want to do the "right thing." If you buy the Anovos, you will most likely not regret it.  

That being said, as long as you're still on the fence, (and if you might want to spend just a little more), research the RS Props, and also "TM" (Troopermaster) armor. I'm still looking at both of those makers quite a bit and I know their stuff is awesome. I saw someone at a Comicon who said he had a TM and it was breathtaking. The helmets are maybe the best I've seen overall. But then, that's what some tell me about my Anovos. 

[meekerscott]

What I don't understand is why Anovos is considered to be evil because they have copied a RS suit, but it is perfectly fine for RS to copy an original film suit. So they can be considerd as recasters too. RS is also making money on the Star Wars brand without having a license. But apparently copying from LFL/Disney is ok. Is it illegal for Anovos to copy a design on which they own the license? I agree that if some makes his own sculpt and someone else just copies it, it's just wrong. But in this case RS is just as guilty as Anovos in my opinion.

This is the whole crux of my post. If you breakdown every single armor maker's method, the lines really begin to blur.

Sometimes I just have to say to myself: "Just build, wear, and have fun." 

 

I need to concentrate on getting my gear ready for a troop at a Children's Hospital, and that's a HUGE reason for me to seek out any armor (Except Rubies and Jedirobe)

[ABS80]

I saw Anovos in person, I must say the overall quality is actually pretty good, maybe they did recast some parts from RS but the end results is very different from a RS, they look overly modified, it looks like they 3D scanned everything and exaggerated sharpness on all parts, many parts are completely different from movie suit especially the back plate, the helmet is definitely not a RS or any other fan helmet and is the weakest part of the suit definetely doesn't originate from a original helmet, if so it was heavily modified during the 3d and cleaning process.

 

Mark (AP)

Edited April 11, 2016 by ABS80

[Nagedzi[TK]]

To be honest, I'm a little sad I didn't jump on that $350 deal when it was available. It would have been a good kit with a slew of possibilities. I agree with Mark that the helmet is the weakest part, but thankfully there are some better options out there to replace it with....

 

The exciting thing about Anovos and THAT initial offering is that our membership is rapidly increasing and that's a good thing! I would much rather have a new recruit purchase directly from Anovos than some sketchy eBay dealer selling recast fibreglass kits. 

[troopermaster]

I saw Anovos in person, I must the overall quality is actually pretty good, maybe they did recast some parts from RS but the end results is very different from a RS, they look overly modified, hard to explain but looks like  3D scanned with exaggerated sharpness on all parts, and some parts are completely different especially the back plate and all the arm parts, the helmet is definitely not a RS or any other fan helmet I know of and is the weakest piece of the suit, it looks like a 3d scanned sanitized helmet and in a league of its own. It really looks different from a screen used suit

 

Mark (AP)

Are you joking?

 

FX is very different from an RS. Anovos is a sharpened up copy - either recast or scanned, sae with the helmet. With comments like these it proves you do not have an eye for detail.

[mods1965]

You can get a lot of different answers on that, depending on who answers.

 

First you should decide which look you like better, as you will have to look at it for some time and it´s your money, this should be your major consideration.

 

Going the line that both armors are basically the same in size and shape - RS has a surface like the cheap and fast made armors on set, wartsy and bumpy (some like this), Anovos has made some "adjustments", while still wonky as the original suits the surface has be smoothed to be nice and shiny (other like that).

 

Then RS is quite some time making armor and in that time many people have bought it - a lot of times such makes people feeling toward their armor maker (same with other makers), so their answers are mostly biased toward what they have.

 

Regarding your concerns about plagiarism - RS makes not allowed copies of a Lfl suit that never should be made, they only can due to a loophole in UK laws. Anovos might have used RS and maybe other sources to generate their suit, due to the sanitation and shaping work it is not the one to one copy as RS tried to generate from the original suit, and they have the license and are allowed to use the Lfl made stuff (which would include the suit RS used, if it wouldn´t have disappeared at Lfl and re-appeared in RS hands).

 

For me RS has not made any design work (direct copy of a Lfl), they have not sculpted their own armor like other makers did, they have no license. So ... there is no reason they "deserve" any protection.

What loop hole are you talking about?  none exists.  Lucas did not register the IP for certain costumes correctly in the UK (unlike the US).  As a result of the Ainsworth case, it was found to legally have lapsed after 30 years (less face, no one knew they would still be this popular after all this time).  RS and TM are not doing anything illegal and contribute as many other makers around have done over the years to the 501st charity projects.  

[Lichtbringer]

What loop hole are you talking about?  none exists.  Lucas did not register the IP for certain costumes correctly in the UK (unlike the US).  As a result of the Ainsworth case, it was found to legally have lapsed after 30 years (less face, no one knew they would still be this popular after all this time).  RS and TM are not doing anything illegal and contribute as many other makers around have done over the years to the 501st charity projects.  

 

I could mostly agree if a maker would have created suits/masters on their own (as some did). But as they make direct copies ox Lfl made costumes only, most nonbiased people would clearly see that as not right. No matter if the UK law loophole let them and Ainsworth continue.

 

And that often brought charity argument means nothing, such should have no impact to right/wrong. Stealing money and give it to the poor, that´s Robin Hood, but no justice covered action.

 

Additional at their prices, forgive me, they don´t do it for the 501 or charity (then they would offer it much cheaper, which is prooven to be doable), they do it for the greed, earning as much money from each sold suit as possible.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Lichtbringer

[mods1965]

Why am I biased?  you need to clarify that statement.  I am simply stating the facts that exist. Certain designs were not registered correctly and dropped out from IP.  Thats the fault of Lucasfilm.  The law had been around long enough for them to check.

Saying armour providers are greedy is quite a provocative statement.  They provide a service that people have wanted for a long time (finally Lucasfilm has acknowledge this fact with the Anovos licence).  If people think its too much money they always have the option to decline.  If I have the talent to reproduce a suit I would do so, but I do not, so I am personally thankful for them and do not begrudge them the money they make for all the efforts they have put in.

It also worth remembering that Lucasfilm was quite happy for people to troop for their film and game promotions.  Make no mistake, they have profited over the years from this community keeping the films in the public eye.

[Lichtbringer]

WE are in this hobby, so we have our opinion on the various things - that makes us biased. If you ask non SW costume/prop fans, generic uninterested people ..... most would say it´s wrong to copy such a suit and make money from that. For most i know it´s more or less theft. I´m talking about people who have no interest in any aspect of the hobby.

 

If it´s OK that they profit from Lfl made stuff and not their own work, it would be OK if i buy a RS suit, and have made copies in a friends industrial vacform company for selling them? In my books both actions are wrong.

 

As mentioned above, i see it different if they would have used pics to crate their own, but copying directly from a Lfl suit is not only a registering or IP problem. 

 

Sure RS is greedy. We know vacformed stuff can be made cheaper. Aside their not using their own work and just copy other peoples work, they take profit from the fact they can ask a much higher price than needed (or others do).

 

Other makers provide a service, offering the wanted stuff made from their own work, and asking noticeable less from the community. THAT´s providing a service.

[Locitus[Admin]]

Making more friends Michael?

[mods1965]

I do not disagree with your first comment.  However, in this case, the fact still remains that certain costumes fell out of IP protection in the UK and can be legally reproduced.  

In terms of the effect on Lucasfilm, I think you will find that they benefit quite well from the current situation .  They did not stop RS props from attending Celebration last year.  Brian Muir endorses RS products and was asked back to work on Rogue One.  RS props was involved in a big UK Star wars event held before the release of TFA.  All of these things generated positive publicity for the films release. Lucasfilm could have stopped all these events if they were concerned about their original IP.  Instead, they appear to have turned the situation to their financial advantage. 

What RS charges is determined by what market will bear, as with all things we buy.  They are no different to any one else in that respect.  People do not have to use them, and have alternatives.  

[Locitus[Admin]]

Also, keep in mind that RS has had to expand into a larger studio twice already just to keep up with demand and to make more kinds of props, and now have a staff of about 10 people working full time. They have a lot of expenses to pay just to keep producing things at a reasonable pace. Otherwise they too would have a 1 year backlog, like ATA has.

[Lichtbringer]

I do not disagree with your first comment.  However, in this case, the fact still remains that certain costumes fell out of IP protection in the UK and can be legally reproduced.  

 

 

I would agree if they made their own. But they are not reproducing, they are copying.

 

Under the line they are nothing more than recasters.

 

After loosing against Ainsworth Lfl might have decided it´s not worth to go after it - or maybe they even think it´s good for advertizing. But being not sued is not the same as being on the good side.

 

As long as this hobby cries havoc to one sort of recasters, but let those slip through from which they think they want stuff ...... i see no reason not to point with my finger on those "accepted" recasters.

[Lichtbringer]

Also, keep in mind that RS has had to expand into a larger studio twice already just to keep up with demand and to make more kinds of props, and now have a staff of about 10 people working full time. They have a lot of expenses to pay just to keep producing things at a reasonable pace. Otherwise they too would have a 1 year backlog, like ATA has.

 

That´s nice for the waiting costumers, but it means nothing otherwise.

 

They have a margin per suit/item - for sure they didn´t grow for the good of the community, they did to produce more and make more money.

[Lichtbringer]

Making more friends Michael?

 

No, i need no friends that are only friends when being pampered and hear what they want.

[Locitus[Admin]]

That´s nice for the waiting costumers, but it means nothing otherwise.

 

They have a margin per suit/item - for sure they didn´t grow for the good of the community, they did to produce more and make more money.

Well yeah. They do this for a living. So does ATA.

[Locitus[Admin]]

No, i need no friends that are only friends when being pampered and hear what they want.

No need to fight everyone you disagree with either. There are other forums you can hang out on instead.

[Lichtbringer]

Well yeah. They do this for a living. So does ATA.

 

It all comes down to "they make money from other peoples work" - and that´s what i don´t like.

[Locitus[Admin]]

It all comes down to "they make money from other peoples work" - and that´s what i don´t like.

Brian Muir seems to be okey with it.

[Lichtbringer]

No need to fight everyone you disagree with either. There are other forums you can hang out on instead.

 

I don´t fight, it´s a valid discussionpoint for me - but i also don´t shut up cause some others don´t have the same opinion and would prefer to only hear what they want and like.

 

I´m here cause some people do fine work i like to watch, that´s all i´m really interrested in.

[Lichtbringer]

Brian Muir seems to be okey with it.

He was paid for his work and is out, so his opinion is not more worth than yours or mine.

 

If there is a official Disney/Lfl letter that says they are ok with it, now that would be another thing.

[Locitus[Admin]]

He was paid for his work and is out, so his opinion is not more worth than yours or mine.

 

If there is a official Disney/Lfl letter that says they are ok with it, now that would be another thing.

That applies to all kits, fan-sculpted or re-cast from LFL made. But you seem to get upset with the later.

[Lichtbringer]

At a fan sculpted kit i like the own personal effort that was put into it, the work, blood and sweat - that makes another level for me than pure copying it and selling for max profit.

[Locitus[Admin]]

At a fan sculpted kit i like the own personal effort that was put into it, the work, blood and sweat - that makes another level for me than pure copying it and selling for max profit.

Most of the screen-used props have been paid for at a very high cost. It would take many many copies before even break even happens. The LFL biker helmet RS bought at auction cost something like £10 000. And it was just a leftover that was never actually used in the movie. Something like the Brian R or David M helmets used for TK helmets for the past 10 years would cost much, much more.

 

Also, you make it sound like making props at a professional level is easy. If you go to one of RS's open house days you'll see that they put a lot of blood and sweat into their work.

[Lichtbringer]

I accept if someone pays the prices for it´s collection. If it is bought to make money it´s wrong. If someone wants to make money he should use his own skill to create the masters, not copying.

 

I´ve not seen anything at propmaking i would consider hard (making stuff to sell, the time pressure when getting something done for filming is something different), not the mechanical production part. Making a design that fits to the story seems hard to me.