ANOVOS TK (discussion forum)

[Target92[501st]]

It is hit or miss, the way to view it is that I am EIB doing some polishing for my Centurion thread and I don't have the soft goods yet.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

It is hit or miss, the way to view it is that I am EIB doing some polishing for my Centurion thread and I don't have the soft goods yet.

 

Why are you waiting for soft goods just to go Centurion? POST IT!!!! hahaha

[Haribon72[TK]]

Is it an AM2.0 with NE parts? Because that could be quite interesting then. To compare what is actually the same armour with different level of sanitising.

I worked on NE and AM2.0 at the same time last season. NE is a lot thicker plastic than AM. There's also a 5mm difference between them as far as chest and back plates goes.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Haribon72

[SupRsloth[TK]]

So I'll start the discussion here Tony suggested made sense to post here since no one else has.   I had to ad 1 1/4 inch shims to the kidney to get the armor to match properly with my ab piece due to my evidently larger than expected TK gut.  Reference the picture below and obviously I still need to sand down and polish the ABS paste.

 

I did the shims as simple as I could.... Question is do I need to extend the shims down and recreate the 22x22 notch forward on the kindey to meet centurion level?  I don't think it will be a big deal but don't want to do the work if I don't have to.  I still have enough other stuff to do my build.   but definitely want to make sure I do it right the first time...   Any thoughts?

 

FYI...  My build thread can be found here if interested.   I've got all the major pieces complete except for updating my belt and completing the strapping.  

[BDWC[TK]]

So I'll start the discussion here Tony suggested made sense to post here since no one else has. I had to ad 1 1/4 inch shims to the kidney to get the armor to match properly with my ab piece due to my evidently larger than expected TK gut. Reference the picture below and obviously I still need to sand down and polish the ABS paste.

 

I did the shims as simple as I could.... Question is do I need to extend the shims down and recreate the 22x22 notch forward on the kindey to meet centurion level? I don't think it will be a big deal but don't want to do the work if I don't have to. I still have enough other stuff to do my build. but definitely want to make sure I do it right the first time... Any thoughts?

 

FYI... My build thread can be found here if interested. I've got all the major pieces complete except for updating my belt and completing the strapping.

The final word was that YES the notch has to move to the end.

 

I don't agree with how that looks, but "them are the rules" so im going to do it because stormtroopers follow orders from their higher ranking officials

[kman[TK]]

The final word was that YES the notch has to move to the end.

 

I don't agree with how that looks, but "them are the rules" so im going to do it because stormtroopers follow orders from their higher ranking officials

Sure, unless you want to be a TR-8R! LOL

 

I'm not sure what the actual process is, if you want to challenge a ruling on something that isn't specifically spelled out in the CRL, to get a firm precedent set going forward. (assuming that's what's going on)

 

My understanding is CRLs are worked out by the higher ups. Not sure how much input the lower ranks have. Perhaps someone with authority can let us know the procedure? (or shut the discussion down entirely if there's literally no way to make such a change)

Edited March 30, 2016 by kman

[kenec]

I posted this on Tony's build thread. Reposting here...

 

 

Regarding the Kidney notch/shim situation, from a film production standpoint, if you were in charge of wardrobe on set and had to accommodate troopers with different sized waists I think one of two things would happen:

 

1. Extend each side and leave the notch as-is.

 

2. Split the back, widen it and reshape the sides.

 

I highly doubt that production would take the time to deal with covering up the current notch, shimming, and making a new notch. It's just too time and labor intensive for something that is never really seen on screen. As we all have learned - these suits were pretty much thrown together and never intended to be heavily scrutinized. There was no home video when Star Wars came out so they were more free to do what they had to do to get stuff on screen. That said, maybe the spirit of production warrants some consideration on this issue?

 

 

 

 

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Edited March 30, 2016 by kenec

[troopermaster]

The final word was that YES the notch has to move to the end.

Pathetic!

 

Honestly, who makes up these stupid rules?

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

Honestly, who makes up these stupid rules?

The Deployment Officer made it, without asking anything to the community before...

[Locitus[Admin]]

The final word was that YES the notch has to move to the end.

 

I don't agree with how that looks, but "them are the rules" so im going to do it because stormtroopers follow orders from their higher ranking officials

I would have kept the notch where it is. That's what makes sense to me. I'm not sure why or how anyone came to the conclusion it should be moved. But when I was DL and added the notch as a requirement, moving it after shimming was never the intention. Someone taking the horizontal 22 mm distance form the edge a bit too literally? The measurement was written for unmodified screen-sized armour.

[kman[TK]]

I would have kept the notch where it is. That's what makes sense to me. I'm not sure why or how anyone came to the conclusion it should be moved. But when I was DL and added the notch as a requirement, moving it after shimming was never the intention. Someone taking the horizontal 22 mm distance form the edge a bit too literally? The measurement was written for unmodified screen-sized armour.

Here's the quote from Tony's thread:

 

Regarding the 22mm notch, btw this is for Centurion level only, the 22mm notch is to reside closest to the ab and kidney connection.

 

Centurion is the ultimate level, Sly, myself and the staff have beat our heads against the wall regarding the 22mm, it's existence in the CRL, its placement and requirements. This is our current decision.

 

If you are a larger trooper you'll have to shim or technically fill in the existing notch and recreate it in the correct location.

The issue is the "the 22mm notch is to reside closest to the ab and kidney connection" part of that. So if you shim the way that seems most obvious, by extending the kidney plate forward to meet the ab plate, you have to fill the notch and extend the whole side all the way to ab plate, and recreate the notch there.

 

So this is wrong, by that reasoning:

 

 

Am I correct in assuming Tony and Sly are pretty much the last word on the issue? Because based on his statement, I've been planning to redo my shims, at some point in the next month or two when I'm ready to go for Centurion.

Edited March 30, 2016 by kman

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

Well, my best answer right now would be: don't do shims, leave the notches untounched, screw Centurion. Honestly I feel like you're doing more harm to the armor than anything with all that modding work, only to have a yellow badge on the FISD.

[Locitus[Admin]]

Here's the quote from Tony's thread:

 

 

The issue is the "the 22mm notch is to reside closest to the ab and kidney connection" part of that. So if you shim the way that seems most obvious, by extending the kidney plate forward to meet the ab plate, you have to fill the notch and extend the whole side all the way to ab plate, and recreate the notch there.

 

So this is wrong, by that reasoning:

 

 

Am I correct in assuming Tony and Sly are pretty much the last word on the issue? Because based on his statement, I've been planning to redo my shims, at some point in the next month or two when I'm ready to go for Centurion.

You're correct that they (or ultimately the DL really is) the final word on it. But what they say is not what I ever intended when creating the requirement. These days I'm mainly around on staff to piss people off with opinions on things and to fix the server whenever it breaks.

 

If I were you I'd keep the notch lined up with the butt plate where it belongs. Even if it means your kidney plate ends up looking like the below illustration.

|
|___________
            |
            |____

[kman[TK]]

You're correct that they (or ultimately the DL really is) the final word on it. But what they say is not what I ever intended when creating the requirement. These days I'm mainly around on staff to piss people off with opinions on things and to fix the server whenever it breaks.

 

If I were you I'd keep the notch lined up with the butt plate where it belongs. Even if it means your kidney plate ends up looking like the below illustration.

|
|___________
            |
            |____

I'm not sure I follow your diagram, but I'm not going to change mine until (or if?) I go for Centurion. It's already done, after all.

 

[ukswrath[Staff]]

The Deployment Officer made it, without asking anything to the community before...

There's two of us here plus a DL so you're wrong again Germain. Man I love saying that.

 

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

It's funny here we have the accuracy crew complaining about something that doesn't suit their version of accuracy yet as the armor and rules have changed over the years I bet there wasn't a second thought or concern as to who's toes you were trampling on. There has been a discussion thread regarding the 22mm notch and it's location for months, with no concrete resolution. So instead of sitting around and continue to squabble about who's correct some of us pulled the trigger. So here it is. Germain, you had your opportunity to be the DO but you turned it down. You could be the one on the hot seat for whatever reason but you bowed out, yet every opportunity you get you slam something we do, atta boy!

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[BDWC[TK]]

Well, my best answer right now would be: don't do shims, leave the notches untounched, screw Centurion. Honestly I feel like you're doing more harm to the armor than anything with all that modding work, only to have a yellow badge on the FISD.

So if I shim but leave the notch where it is, is that suitable only for basic? I really don't understand if the gap must be removed for all levels and at which level the notch becomes a concern

 

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[ukswrath[Staff]]

So if I shim but leave the notch where it is, is that suitable only for basic? I really don't understand if the gap must be removed for all levels and at which level the notch becomes a concern

 

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Yes and even EIB

[ukswrath[Staff]]

So if I shim but leave the notch where it is, is that suitable only for basic? I really don't understand if the gap must be removed for all levels and at which level the notch becomes a concern

 

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Abdomen Armor

For 501st approval: Gap ok

• The abdomen armor has a button area that matches the color pattern shown (3 blue + 6 gray); buttons are approximately 7/16" (11mm) in diameter. 

 

For level two certification (if applicable): Minimal gap

• Any gap between the abdomen and kidney armor is no more than 1/2" (12.5mm) wide.
  • Any shims used to achieve this effect are of a similar material and color as the abdomen and kidney armor. Shims fit flush and seams are allowed.

For level three certification (if applicable): Little to no gap

• Ideally there no gap between the abdomen and kidney armor.
  • A single visible seam line is present.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Folks, the 22mm notch and it's placement is a Centurion level requirement. If the current decision does not suit you then build your armor to the accuracy level that does. If requirements change them make or don't make the necessary corrections as needed for the next level. We currently have a builder with a FX suit that we're helping to get to the highest level possible with his armor. At one time FX armor was Centurion approved, now it barely meets basic requirements, and the helmet is a no go at any level. Requirements will come and go, we're NOT forcing you to do anything.

 

The fear mongering by a few is unbelievable. I'm getting reports from the FB pages that some won't even attempt 501st approval mainly due to all the bickering going on the FISD. If this was your goal     

[Sly11[Admin]]

Tumultuous a DO's path is.......

 

 

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[Locitus[Admin]]

I'm not sure I follow your diagram, but I'm not going to change mine until (or if?) I go for Centurion. It's already done, after all.

 

Not much to follow assuming you understand the difference between a square and a rectangle.

 

[SupRsloth[TK]]

Sorry folks didn't intend to start a battle just trying to get clarification so I can pick a direction and keep going on my very first build. Appreciate the feedback.

 

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[The5thHorseman[501st]]

There's two of us here plus a DL so you're wrong again Germain. Man I love saying that.

 

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So much for Eric's policy about CRL changes:

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/31782-fisd-costume-reference-library-change-policy/

 

This ruling about the kidney notches should have been proposed to discussion to the whole detachment rather than judged arbitrary only by three or two people.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Sorry folks didn't intend to start a battle just trying to get clarification so I can pick a direction and keep going on my very first build. Appreciate the feedback.

 

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Matt no worries my brother, you have no fault here. Everyone's entitled to their concerns and opinions. Sometimes passions and opinions run high.