The dreaded orange-peel...

[TK257[501st]]

What are some of the biggest factors contributing to the orange-peel effect when spray-painting?

[Scootch[TK]]

Anxiety is definately a big one.......we're all guilty of this, wanting our paint job instantly without giving thought to things like runs and orange peel.

 

I do it all the time, you can sand the orange peel out or sand and go over again not as thick. To prevent it outright one must paint in light coats and the first one or two will look strange, but in the end it will work to your advantage.

[Smitty]

You also dont want to hold the can so far away that it begins to dry before it hits the helmet. That will cause a grainy finish. A good paint job is one step away from a run. I paint within 6 inches and I make thick coats.

[TK257[501st]]

I've heard...somewhere...that air temperature, paint temperature, and humidity can play a part. True or false?

[Smitty]

cold and damp days are not ideal for painting. A nice warm dry day with no wind is great for painting.

[riveting]

I've heard...somewhere...that air temperature, paint temperature, and humidity can play a part. True or false?

 

 

Im my brief experience very true, nice dry warn day's are the one's I waited for, also the other factors mentioned above add to differing degrees of peelyness.

[Scootch[TK]]

All this plus the actual material being sprayed, it's adhesion to the subject it's being sprayed onto, temperature, humidity, "anxiety" ha ha ha. Remember, some (most) paints have a shelf life and it's a good idea to use fresh and not something you've had in storage for any lengthy amount of time. I've screwed up so many paint jobs that I've learned quite a bit about what not to do next time.

[SuperTrooper]

Orange peel has nothing to do with painting. It's caused from ABS being overheated when forming. When it occurs you can usually sand the worst off if it's minimal, but that's a bandaide fix for a piece that should be scrapped.

 

Now when painting, yes holding the can to far away can cause a grain like surface to appear. It's from the paint partially drying in the air before it hits the surface.

 

Other things that can cause paint to go bust is painting when the humidity is very high or low. The other thing is the timing of applying multiple coats, this varies greatly from paint to paint.

[Bigturc]

Until now, I've painted 2 helmets, my Commander Neyo helmet and my MLC Biker Scout helmet. Both are fiberglass.

 

The Neyo helmet has been painted with High Gloss Krylon Fusion which did some orange peel. I followed the instructions and spraying distance and all that crap and it still did it. 4 coats didn't change a thing.

 

I wanted my Biker Scout helmet to be perfect, so I tried Rust-Oleum paint which also is High Gloss (-----). Well, my first spray still wasn't successful and I didn't have the high gloss finish I see here at all. So I sanded it back down to the primer and restarted again. Primer, wet sand, then 3 coats of Rust-Oleum again.

 

THIS 2nd TIME though, I got much closer to the helmet, maybe 6" instead of 10-12" like the bottle says, and my left-right movement for painting was much much slower, I'd say at least by 4 times. I essentially waited for the paint on the helmet to go from mist, to thickness to glossiness on each passage. This gave me a nice glossy finish .. still not as good as Mike's result cause to me, this thing looks perfect!!! But it is close enough for me to be really satisfied.

 

So my tricks:

 

1. Spray closer

2. Slower back & forth movement

 

Some once told me: "There's a thin line between a nice thick coat and a paint run!". This pretty much resumes it for me.

Edited December 6, 2020 by gmrhodes13
link not working, removed gmrhodes13 2020

[drosch]

Go to a good autoparts store with a body work department. They should sell some good compounds or glazes that should take care of orange peel. I think 3M makes the kind I used. I got it from a buddy that does bodywork for a living. Anytime you shoot with a can and even a gun you will get some degree of it. Just rub it out. I painted a Steelers helmet for my dad for Christmas which is the hardest color (black) and after I rubbed it out with compound it looked like glass. Still does! It also eases the anxiety while shooting the paint that it can be fixed later. Several light coats with only a minute or so between

[Bigturc]

You can get the orange peel away? I think I need more explanation on this one as I don't see how this is possible?

 

What is the compound doing exactly? Making the paint flatter?

Does it take paint away? I'm really curious about this.

 

When would you apply the compound, right after the paint job while it's still "fresh" to some degree or after it completely cured?

Would the compound yellow the paint, let's say if the base coat is white, after some time?

 

Too much questions?

[TK257[501st]]

What's the name of this compound or the active ingredient?

[TK-4510[501st]]

Question: Did you paint this helmet with rustoleum pro finish white? If you did you have to wait a week before you sand it and paint it again. If you try to paint the helmet before that paint completely cures, you will get orange peel. You can also get orange peel from the surface not being prepped and oil free. It has to be pretty well prepped. Lightly sand it real good, primer a few coats and then use a 1000 grit sand paper to finish the final wet sanding. Scan the helmet for areas that need more attention. I use a good tack cloth to pick up all the dust for the final wipe down. Paint in an area with no wind, no bugs and no chance of the helmet falling. It should turn out pretty nice. None of my buckets have been flawless. There is always a small "something" that bugs me.

 

Rustoleum Pro is a great paint but it is very finicky. The Krylon stuff is easy to apply but you wont get the gloss Rustoleum provides.

 

You can wet sand out orange peel with 1000 grit and alot of patience as long as the paint is thick enough..... If you burn through the paint though, its over and you start again anyway. Once the surface is smooth again, you can buff it out with novus or a decent buffing compound or car wax. The finish will be glossy but not like the Rustoleum finish. You may need to wet sand the entire helmet to get an even finish that matches...

[Hammer3246]

Make sure whatever you're painting is CLEAN before you start.

[TK257[501st]]

Mike, I followed your painting tutorial to the letter using the Rust-o-leum gloss white pro stuff but got orange peel anyway. I sprayed outside on a day with almost no wind...theres always some sort of airflow going on. I suspect I was too far from the helmet and didn't apply the paint thick enough. At least I can sand it down and try again.

 

Many thanks to all who responded with tips!!

[Darth Voorhees[501st]]

You can get the orange peel away? I think I need more explanation on this one as I don't see how this is possible?

 

What is the compound doing exactly? Making the paint flatter?

Does it take paint away? I'm really curious about this.

 

When would you apply the compound, right after the paint job while it's still "fresh" to some degree or after it completely cured?

Would the compound yellow the paint, let's say if the base coat is white, after some time?

 

Too much questions?

 

Ive been spray painting stuff for years, bmx bikes mostly but ive done a foar share of vader helmets also.

 

i think what you speak of is polishing compound. Its basically a wax like stuff that comes in a can/tin, like auto wax. it has a small amount of "grit" in it. It basically removes very minor amounts of the color, so in essence you are super duper fine sanding the surface. This stuf has to be applied when the paint is COMPLETELY cured, or you will botch up the whole thing good. PATENCE is something you HAVE TO have when doing this stuff.

 

My methods in a nutshell are, i will prime, then put on 3 layers of color, let it completely cure for at least 24hrs(even the paint that says "fully dry in 15minues"), then i will wet sand the item with 400grit sand paper. and then with 700-1000 grit. you should get the surface super smooth doing this. then i check to make sure i didnt sand through to the primer anywhere. If i did, i will add another 2-3 coats and repeat the process. If it looks good, i then apply 2-3 coats of clear gloss, and do the same thing, let it dry 24hrs, then wetsand with 600grit and then again with 1000 grit. if it looks good after that i will put on one final coat of clear, about 6 inches away for the item and using not-to-fast strokes going past the item before changing direction. then i let it dry 24hrs again. You should have a nice super smooth shiney surface with no orange peel effect after that which you can then buff up with some automotive polish/wax. If you have a couple of grainy spots, you can use the polishing compound to smooth them over and then polish/wax the entire item.

 

you can get the polishing compound at any automotive store like pepboys or autozone or the likes. The one i have is made by turtle wax, but im sure there are other, like 3M and such that make a similar product. If you could find an autobody supply shop, even better. hope this helped

[drosch]

I've been busy all day and this is my first chance to respond. The above explaination is pretty much correct though. The compound has a very fine grit and you rub out the orange peel after it is fully cured. Give it at least 3 days, 5 would be better. I have even used 1200 or 1500 sand paper and wet sanded the surface before using the compound. It never hurts to use a really good wax or polish after rubbing out the imperfections. You do have to go slow and use very light pressure but you will get the knack for it. If I'm doing it, its not that hard. I used compound on the raw ABS of my AP to make it glossier.

[Hammer3246]

Again...CLEAN, any oily residue will cause Orange Peel. That is why the paint will not hold....ever try to mix oil and water??? Clean what you want to paint with a solvent (make sure it doesn't have a bad reaction with your plastic..ie melts it) follow the recommended painting procedure, you will be fine. Keep in mind that any Peel you uncover will have to be sanded down to plastic again otherwise you're fighting a up hill battle.

[TK257[501st]]

Well, I just got the smoothest primer coat on I've ever done...maybe I should just clear-coat that and call it even.

[Scootch[TK]]

Well this may not be THE stuff, but I did a black laquer finish on some fork tins for an old BSA. I worked on them for a week of evenings from metal to primer to paint. I finished them by wet sanding with super fine grit, then rubbed them out with rubbing compound (Turtle wax brand I beleive) and finally a good carnuba wax. My old man is a hot rodder and when he saw those tins he was impressed. the rubbing compound is also good for removing scratches in clearcoat. I'm certain there are better brands of rubbing compound out there for modelling and Stormie helmets

 

Orange peel has nothing to do with painting. It's caused from ABS being overheated when forming. When it occurs you can usually sand the worst off if it's minimal, but that's a bandaide fix for a piece that should be scrapped.

 

True I've seen actual OATMEAL on burnt up ABS. Truth is orange peel is a painting problem which plagues the majority of humanity and thus such things as fine grit sandpaper, rubbing compounds, clearcoats, and buffers have been invented to combat it.

[drosch]

Well this may not be THE stuff, but I did a black laquer finish on some fork tins for an old BSA. I worked on them for a week of evenings from metal to primer to paint. I finished them by wet sanding with super fine grit, then rubbed them out with rubbing compound (Turtle wax brand I beleive) and finally a good carnuba wax. My old man is a hot rodder and when he saw those tins he was impressed. the rubbing compound is also good for removing scratches in clearcoat. I'm certain there are better brands of rubbing compound out there for modelling and Stormie helmets

 

True I've seen actual OATMEAL on burnt up ABS. Truth is orange peel is a painting problem which plagues the majority of humanity and thus such things as fine grit sandpaper, rubbing compounds, clearcoats, and buffers have been invented to combat it.

 

Bingo! Couldn't agree more!

[Scootch[TK]]

Copy that Drosch! Here's another thing I stumbled upon by accident......your local fire department maintains their own vehicles to a certain extent. One of the things they have to do is rub out the light bars atop the vehicles and the headlamps too. I bought some plastic "cleaner" and "polish" at the local auto paint store to fix some light scratches in my TX. Same thing they use for their rigs. Works pretty well. You'll find if you take a Stormie bucket into an automotive paint wholesaler (where the hot rodders shop) they get all into it and come out with all sorts of helpful tips. Remember, these costumes are like life size models and all those guys used to sprack out on models as kids in the 50's.

I'm a trial and error guy but that's half the fun for me in this hobby.

[TK257[501st]]

Progress report...

 

I have a smooth enough finish sans the shine at this point. I've hand painted the frown, ears, and vocorder, and am ready to apply decals. Here's where I'm stuck though. I'm planning on using Turtle Wax for the shine...I've tested it and it yields a light to medium gloss...it should match my armor's shine. Should I apply the decals and Turlte Wax over them, or apply the Turtle Wax, then decal over that? Will the decals stick to the surface if it's been waxed?

 

 

[TK-4510[501st]]

wax after.. decals wont stick very well to a waxed surface.

[TK257[501st]]

Makes sense...thanks for the help.