Helmet mold mods to achieve Centurion

[Elumusic[TK]]

So in my attempt to sell one of my BX helmets to someone going for Centurion Status I ran into a snag.  Which i intend on correcting.  The purchaser ran the helmet past Steve for Centurion Status consideration.  It appears I have a few issues with the helmet.  Here is what Steve had to say:

 

Overall it's not a bad attempt.It's a nice helmet that I'd pass all day for EIB. Centurion, though might be another story. I saw your thread on the main boards that shows you have other helmets currently accepted for Centurion. I'd stick with those. A couple things that stick out to me on this particular helmet are the HUGE rank bar areas on the ears, the mis-shapen tear under the left eye(as you are looking at the helmet) but the frown is the big one for me. The Stunt frown always had 5 tooth indents though all 5 were rarely seen and the 5th one was subtle but there. This frown is right in the middle between stunt and hero.
Another proportional issue is the helmet depth front to back. The ears are darn near touching the tear under the eye. This is not how this should be. There should be some room between the ear cover.

 

I take issue with one or more comments from Steve.

 

So here is the helmet in question.  

 

 

 

The first if that the frown only has 4 indents for teeth.  That is incorrect it has all 5 on each side.  I believe the issue is really that the paint needs to go bast the 5th tooth indent.  Can someone verify?  Maybe Steve himself could weigh in on this.  I have seen a few screen captures and I am on the fence about this one.  My photo below as follows.  From left to right.  Screen helmet used in ANH showing 5 teeth.  the last uncut.  next is my helmet.  5 teeth and the final is my mold also 5 teeth.  So the issue should be that the paint for the frown should continue past the uncut tooth.

 

 

The rank bars on the ears I agree with.  but as far as the spacing between the tear and the ear it seems that it's more about pushing the ear bud back a little farther so there is more room between the bud and the tear.  Again, can someone give me their opinion?  Image below from left to right.  Screen used ANH helmet.  look at the location of the ear bud vs the tear.  Mine is the second image.  They are very close to being similar.  I added an inch to the bottom of my face mold to give some extra depth to the helmet.  But I'm not 100% convinced that the depth of the helmet is the issue.  The third image are the new earbud molds.  Notice the screen image stripe bar vs my stripe bar.  Mine is too tall.  I trimmed them down on the mold.  

 

 

The helmet depth from front to back is another issue I take with Steve's comment.  The proportion from front to back appears to be correct based on simple overlay with screen helmets.  Someone??

Image below from left to right.  original screen used ANH helmet.  Mine is the second one.  I am having an issue seeing the depth problem that Steve mentioned.

 

 

 Lastly is the tear shape.  I can easily modify the shape of the tears.  No issue with this.  Image below from left to right: Original helmet ANH.  Second is my original tear shape.  Third image is my revised tear shape.  Anyone see any issues here??

 

 

Bottom line is I want to be able to get centurion status of my own here in the near future.  Any help would be great.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Elumusic

[justjoseph63[Staff]]

You may want to post some detailed, close-up photos of the bucket in question, but when it comes down to it, Steve REALLY knows his armor, and has the final say in the matter.

Edited July 19, 2015 by justjoseph63

[Elumusic[TK]]

Pictures now posted.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Elumusic

[bpoodoo]

If you go to starwarshelmets.com and look at the original screen used helmets you will find the indentation for the fifth tooth on both sides. They're never cut out but the indentation is there. Looking at the set for stun helmet as an example, the fifth indentation on the right side (as you look at the helmet) is more prominent than the fifth indentation the left side.

[Elumusic[TK]]

Yes. I did notice that and I added a photo above. I understand I need to extend the frown paint now. I do however have the 5 teeth.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 19, 2015 by Elumusic

[bpoodoo]

Some of the advice you're getting is from experts (Steve in particular) who lived and breathed stormtrooper helmets for years. I'm not as seasoned but I would say that the revised tear is a bit too flat; The front edge too straight; and on this side the back edge a bit too far back - if you extend an imaginary tanget line from the back edge it should hit just barely inside the corner of the eye. This shouldn't be the case for the tear on the other side where that line would fall outside the corner of the eye. Original helmets are beautifully asymmetric.

Edited July 19, 2015 by bpoodoo

[Elumusic[TK]]

I have curved the front edge more.  For the most part I am happy with the way this looks.  Now how to know if it will achieve Centurion?  I can keep pulling molds for the next year and never get to where I want to be so I'd really like to get this mold thing down sooner than later.  Keep the input coming please.

 

 

[usaeatt2]

Hi Jeff,

 

Looking at those last pictures and having made a few molds myself, I can't even begin to imagine the hours you have invested.  If achieving Centurion with your helmet is the goal, why not contact Steve directly?  The changes outlined above are subtle, but if you nail them, it will take your helmets to a higher level.  I know Steve has contacted other armorers about making changes to better fit the CRL.  The fact that you are asking for input and actively working on changes puts you ahead of many armorers.  Steve has the the ultimate authority over this, so I would try to work directly with him.  Everyone you ask is going to have opinions, some similar, some different.

 

That said, for the teardrops, it seems to me there should be more of a straight edge at the rear of the teardrop before transitioning into the curve.  Your teardrop seems to start curving almost immediately.  It's subtle, but noticeable.  We're talking millimeters to fractions of a millimeter.  Also, the center of the teardrop should have a "hump" in it...like a little hill in the middle of a valley.

[Elumusic[TK]]

Can someone pm me Steve's contact info??

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bpoodoo]

Steve is gazmosis on here.  Like he said, it's a nice helmet.  I'm just commenting from the peanut gallery here - I have no say as to what passes for Centurion.  Steve would be the guy to talk to.  As for the depth in the profile view, you might provide profile views from different camera distances.  A perception of geometric distortion can occur in 2D close-up shots.  It's nothing to do with lens distortion, it's just without the depth cue of 3D, features along the helmet can appear distorted with closer features appearing larger (the "selfie" effect).  Pulling back to 3-6 feet can give a more accurate depiction of what it looks like in person, IMO.  Here's an example of one of my Dan Laws helmets (work in progress) from 1 ft and from 6 ft:

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by gmrhodes13
photos updated gmrhodes13 2021

[Elumusic[TK]]

Great point on the photo distance.  All of mine are within 12" to 24".  

[gazmosis[501st]]

Hey Jeff:

You are on the right track here. What is most important that you are doing is side by side comparisons with the acrual helmets because that is what you are trying to duplicate. You have an artist's eye. I can see that in the details you already had in the pre-adjustment shots of the helmet.  What I always fall back on as a way of determining how close something is to the original, is rapidly looking back and forth between what you have and what you are trying to achieve.  Your eye will pick up any differences however subtle. This is how I came to the determinations about your rank bar areas being over sized and the tears below the eyes being a bit out of shape. With what you have done already, especially by adjusting the frown and adding the 5th tooth indent, you are very close. 

Everyone realizes the effort, skill and money it takes to prepare molds for pulling. I can't wait to see your final products as it comes out of this.

[Elumusic[TK]]

And then I have this back mold I did.  Again.  The goal is to achieve Centurion Status starting with the molds.  I have approximately 20 hours in the back plate. 

 

Image 1: Create a plaster mold by piling up plaster and shaping with carving tools.  I have another thread on this back piece but for discussion of Centurion I am posting it here.  Plaster is not a great media to work with.  Too soft so it is near impossible to do dremel work and get it to hold up.  I stopped with the square and basic shape and then pulled a new negative with HIPS.

 

 

 

create a HIPS pull of the basic shape to create a new structural mold and finish the detail.

 

 

Make a new positive. Ultracal 30 and a void in the back to make the vacuum holes.

 

 

 

Refine the shape with bondo and a dremel tool.  

 

 

I also have a chest piece I am working on, posterior armor and a few other pieces that the AM armor is lacking.  All of this to go with the AM pieces I already have on hand to make a Centurion Level TKC.  My secondary goal is to make my own armor eventually.  Or sell components to those who need them to obtain the same goal. And eventually to make a few "day of the dead" suits.    But I see no reason not to make a centurion able mold in the process.

[Elumusic[TK]]

Hey Jeff:

You are on the right track here. What is most important that you are doing is side by side comparisons with the acrual helmets because that is what you are trying to duplicate. You have an artist's eye. I can see that in the details you already had in the pre-adjustment shots of the helmet.  What I always fall back on as a way of determining how close something is to the original, is rapidly looking back and forth between what you have and what you are trying to achieve.  Your eye will pick up any differences however subtle. This is how I came to the determinations about your rank bar areas being over sized and the tears below the eyes being a bit out of shape. With what you have done already, especially by adjusting the frown and adding the 5th tooth indent, you are very close. 

Everyone realizes the effort, skill and money it takes to prepare molds for pulling. I can't wait to see your final products as it comes out of this.

Thank you Steve...I will continue down this path until it's acceptable.