ANOVOS TFA Armor Accuracy?

[DarthMel[TK]]

I know I read somewhere that this armor has some places where it's not accurate to the screen used armor. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read that, and I haven't been able to find any specific information. Can someone point me in the direction to find that information?

[gazmosis[501st]]

There is a give and take in this situation. The original suits were 3D printed in polyurethane resin. The suits we have seen to this point have all been vacu formed. Liberties were taken into consideration when the molds were made but they are REALLY CLOSE

[DarthMel[TK]]

Sent you a PM, Steve.

[JamesG]

I thought anovos helped to create the armour or am I wrong lol

[TK6682[TK]]

There is a give and take in this situation. The original suits were 3D printed in polyurethane resin. The suits we have seen to this point have all been vacu formed. Liberties were taken into consideration when the molds were made but they are REALLY CLOSE

 

The screen used suits were injection molded polyurethane. A flexible material which allowed more mobility but also broke down quickly. 

[TK6682[TK]]

I thought anovos helped to create the armour or am I wrong lol

 

Anovos did not help create the armor for the film.

[Dark PWF[Staff]]

Truthfully, I've been made aware of one or two people who are basically crusading against the kit after having worn them in Anaheim, under this very notion.

 

They are saying that it is not close enough to screen accurate to allow it to meet Centurion standards - to which my reply is "Which Centurion standards does it not meet, as there isn't a CRL for it yet?"

 

I've seen it called "The next generation of Rubies" and to me, looking at pictures of the armor, and screen caps from the trailer, I don't see any basis whatsoever, for this comparison. Technology has come a long way in the last forty years or so. Armors created now are for more accurate and consistent than the armors being produced in the 80s.

 

So, for those of you who have the kits, built the kits, AND saw the screen used kits at SWCA, what degree of differences do exist?

[TK6682[TK]]

Truthfully, I've been made aware of one or two people who are basically crusading against the kit after having worn them in Anaheim, under this very notion.

 

They are saying that it is not close enough to screen accurate to allow it to meet Centurion standards - to which my reply is "Which Centurion standards does it not meet, as there isn't a CRL for it yet?"

 

I've seen it called "The next generation of Rubies" and to me, looking at pictures of the armor, and screen caps from the trailer, I don't see any basis whatsoever, for this comparison. Technology has come a long way in the last forty years or so. Armors created now are for more accurate and consistent than the armors being produced in the 80s.

 

So, for those of you who have the kits, built the kits, AND saw the screen used kits at SWCA, what degree of differences do exist?

 

Coming from someone who has examined every detail of every photo (turn arounds from set) for the past 4 months, I challenge anyone to point out the differences.

Granted, it is a different medium so differences will have to be present. 

 

I just think there are a ton of haters out there, especially in our community. 

Edited May 3, 2015 by TK6682

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Michael & Tim - you guys have the right of it.  People are putting the cart before the horse on this, and missing the points of the EI & Centurion programs entirely.   

 

We have a long, long way to go before such subtle differences are worth worrying about.  Let's establish the CRL with suits that are available.  There is no point in paper standards with no ability to achieve them, or that to achieve them costs an unreasonable amount of time and money.

[TK6682[TK]]

Screen armor was $7000 - $10,000 per set to produce depending on how think it had to be for hero or stunt.

[DarthMel[TK]]

Thank you all for your input. I hadn't seen any evidence of the inaccuracies, only people mentioning that the inaccuracies existed. The armor in the movies is made differently, and as you said, cost a hell of a lot more. I expect there to be some differences due to the way the ANOVOS kit was made and the materials used. I was just curious if any other details that would matter were different.

[Locitus[Admin]]

There are some small things that differ, like the white trapezoids under the eyes are almost twice as thick on the anovos helmets, and some lines on the legs which remind me of mould lines from vac forming (except they are not) on the originals that are not present on the anovos.

 

Overall however, they are very accurate and whatever differences there are are likely due to the different production process.

[Dark PWF[Staff]]

Paul & Mathias,

 

Thank you. That's pretty much exactly what I expected from examining pictures of each. In doing so, I couldn't outright detect any crazy inaccuracies or even truly noticeable subtle differences.

 

I guess the haters are going to hate, and I know that I cannot convince them otherwise. I haven't touched or seen either in person, so I am constantly rebuffed with that as evidence that they're correct. They've seen both, they study armor, I can't be right. LoL

[DarthMel[TK]]

I thought the ANOVOS armor looked good. Small inaccuracies such as those that Mathias mentioned don't bother me. You guys have helped me out a lot. Thanks! :-)

[deadvision]

The armor looked fine to me. Not that I've done any research or comparisons. The only thing that stuck out to me was that the helmets looked a bit off. Not terribly off. And maybe a smigeon too big. That's just from the way I saw it. Never compared. But it looks great overall. I'd love to be able to find funds for one someday.

[Natalie]

They look pretty close to me (granted I've only been comparing images) The differences I see are simply softened details because their suits are vacuum formed. Vacuum forming isn't really suitable for making film quality costumes these days. I've seen people claiming all sorts of things about how the originals were produced. Having spent a few years in the film industry, designing and making armour, my opinion is the majority of parts were cast or sprayed PU, taken from moulds that would have been pulled off masters that were machined on cnc mills from 3D models. Some of the masters would have been 3D printed, like the snaps and forearm track details. The suits themselves would not have been 3D printed. I can't think of any printer that's capable of printing such large components and financially, that would be totally bananas. Milling has no such limitation.

Vacuum forming these suits, to me, seems wasteful, expensive, overly laborious, harder for a non professional to work with and kind of pointless due to the loss of detail  but, I'm not on their design team so, what would I know?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Natalie

[Agent RayBans]

The armor looked fine to me. Not that I've done any research or comparisons. The only thing that stuck out to me was that the helmets looked a bit off. Not terribly off. And maybe a smigeon too big. That's just from the way I saw it. Never compared. But it looks great overall. I'd love to be able to find funds for one someday.

 

I believe in one of their interviews at Anaheim, or maybe even a post on the RPF, Anovos said there were different sized helmets used for the production of the movie. The one that they were given access to and subsequently based their helmets off of was a larger one.

[camprandall]

With modern movie making tech, we have to get away from the "this was made exactly as the props guys made them" mentality and instead focus on high visual accuracy. A New Hope was a low budget Indy film and now we're talking $10,000 suits - which would be much higher with our availability of resources and lack of the pull of Disney/Lucasfilm. Let's make it possible to have great suits that Star Wars fans have a hope of obtaining. The ANOVOS kit is already a more advanced build and it is far better than many iterations of the TK that are roaming around out there so I don't think we need to be ruthless about it - unless we want the 501st to become only for wealthy hardcore costumers and not Star Wars fans who want to make kids smile.

[Seeker[TK]]

Good one Camp!

[mr0072003[501st]]

Well Said Camp!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

With modern movie making tech, we have to get away from the "this was made exactly as the props guys made them" mentality and instead focus on high visual accuracy. A New Hope was a low budget Indy film and now we're talking $10,000 suits - which would be much higher with our availability of resources and lack of the pull of Disney/Lucasfilm. Let's make it possible to have great suits that Star Wars fans have a hope of obtaining. The ANOVOS kit is already a more advanced build and it is far better than many iterations of the TK that are roaming around out there so I don't think we need to be ruthless about it - unless we want the 501st to become only for wealthy hardcore costumers and not Star Wars fans who want to make kids smile.

QFT, well said.

[TK4205]

The biggest differences I see are the corners. This new armor needs to have its corners brought out to look sharper. It can be done with bondo.

 

I got to see the actual suits fairly close. I took lots of pics to make comparisons in both armor and helmet. Someone needs to sculpt a better helmet.

[camprandall]

The edges on the screen suits are definitely sharper due to the technology used, but it's unreasonable to bondo every edge and dremel every indent on this thing to try to mimic that. There were 68 pieces of ABS and you'd be bondoing nearly all of them. I would think it's either vacu-form with some degree of softness to it, or else we require injection molded armor, which would be prohibitively expensive with probably no availability. I think there are practical considerations here that will have to factor in if we want approval armored costumes from the upcoming movies.

 

That's my thought anyway.

[bigkilo[501st]]

Sooo, the anovos comes as a kit then? I saw one of the new suits at a troop on may 4th and was less than impressed - terrible shape and fit (almost as bad as my avatar pic;) the butt was flat and wide and the thickness of the waist and thighs was off balance with the top portion, it just didn't look very masculine at all.

 

If it is an unfinished kit, that would actually be a good thing, I think - because if they all look like the one I saw this weekend, you couldn't pay me to wear it.

[TK4205]

The edges on the screen suits are definitely sharper due to the technology used, but it's unreasonable to bondo every edge and dremel every indent on this thing to try to mimic that. There were 68 pieces of ABS and you'd be bondoing nearly all of them. I would think it's either vacu-form with some degree of softness to it, or else we require injection molded armor, which would be prohibitively expensive with probably no availability. I think there are practical considerations here that will have to factor in if we want approval armored costumes from the upcoming movies.

 

That's my thought anyway.

 

I don't mean bondo all the corners for approval or trooping. I'm talking about bringing the kit to a higher level of accuracy.

Each box could be faced with thin ABS and all the edges filled. A reasonable task to reach that higher mark within the detachment. I hope I don't sound elitest here. I wore an FX for several years before I could tell the difference. If people have the attitude that it's good enough for the fans, that's OK too. Most people are just here to have fun. But if the FISD maintains this costume, there will eventualy be Centurian standards.

Not to compare the ANOVOS kit to the FX, but when we started with the FX, it was the best thing going. It was the only thing going. It took over a decade to come up with the EIB and Centurion programs and only after we had access to more accurate kits.

 

so right now, ANOVOS armor is the best thing going