The Force Awakens Stormtrooper CRL

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

I'll echo what Paul said. The CRL should go here by July-ish of not earlier. It isn't carved in granite. If there are major differences we can adapt the wording to allow for both variants. The goal of a CRL is to get people approved not to set out guidelines for people not to meet.

 

-Eric

 

 

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[stormtrooperguy[501st]]

The costume will be "TK" just like all the other stormtroopers. We are not adding new designations unless the costume is something so entirely unlike anything else we've seen that there is no other option.

[plushie[TK]]

The costume will be "TK" just like all the other stormtroopers. We are not adding new designations unless the costume is something so entirely unlike anything else we've seen that there is no other option.

 

YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!! 

 

Ahem.

[crow62[501st]]

Captain Phasma will have a CRL like an stormtooper too?

Edited May 12, 2015 by crow62

[Zaphod[TK]]

Here are the changes for the second round copied from the thread on the main forum http://www.501st.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=86394

 

There will be a few changes, which are still being determined by the ANOVOS manufacturing team. Hoping for a list in the next few weeks. More polished instructions are also in the works. The helmet will be the same fiberglass helmet as well. Please note that the gaskets will be the same as the first wave as any changes would have to go through licensor approval again and would delay these kits.

* The black oval decal on the calf near the ankle was too small and will be enlarged. 

* The right spat had some glue on the buck, and it was coming through the vac form process, so this was fixed.

* The left and right calves were not labeled correctly on the buck, and this has been updated.

* The indent on the chest near the latch is going to be bigger and more pronounced. 

* Corrected the crescent moon shape parts under the shoulder bells. 

* Instructions will be re-done.

 

Shipments estimated to begin in July.

[svache[501st]]

Captain Phasma will have a CRL like an stormtooper too?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is that much reference material yet. At first sight, the costume seems to have some significant changes to the regular TFA TK, I wouldn't be surprised if they wait with that until the movie comes out. 

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Jeroen is not wrong.

[stormtrooperguy[501st]]

I have no doubt Phasma will get a CRL entry at some point, but for now there isn't enough to go on. I can't wait to see those costumes get built!

[sylverbard[TK]]

I'm Betting Phasma is a propaganda holocron that doesn't actually appear much until the second movie....more like a motivational character, or a Hero from the Past who shows up and dies in flashback.

 

That said...

 

I would honestly rather not release the CRL in any official form until december 19th.  Early Giftmas present.  

 

And also don't push, care, or glamorize who makes it in first.  Release them en masse once the LMO and GML's get their tonnes of influx.  My garrison should be easy but you folks with 100 plus members might actually have double digit applications.

 

*THAT* said...i really would like the crl to be released to the first 75 (and second 150) early so we can make sure we've got what it takes.  I don't want to be the first Failed application in the legion.

[Vertex[TK]]

(My 2 cents worth)

 

I have to agree, pushing for a CRL this early is like putting the cart in front of the horse. I do understand why some folks would want it out sooner but I think in the end everyone would be better served by waiting.

 

We all understand that CRL's are living documents but with things being as fluid as they are now, and will continue to be till the end of the year, I really do think it's the best course of action.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Vertex

[stormtrooperguy[501st]]

To me, it is a disservice to the 75 people waiting to be approved to delay if we have the required elements to proceed.

 

We know the character exists, is bad, has reference, and has a LOT of finished costumes.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Whatever we decide, I would like to see it be as correct and completed as possible so that the rest of us following the alpha group are building it correctly the first time, not to say they didn't. If anyone has built any armor to the higher levels without researching or through endless CRL changes knows do-overs are a pain. I'd personally like to build it correctly and accurately from the start. I'll wait. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by ukswrath

[camprandall]

I would also add that since hundreds more are building these through the rest of the year, it doesn't seem like a good idea to do a CRL AFTER all of that and then decide if they're accurate enough. Waiting only makes sense if we think the screen used suits we took pictures of arent a good enough reference.

[Locitus[Admin]]

Suits can be approved without a finished CRL. Brian knows this. It's just more work and time on his part, as LMO.

 

Personally I think working towards a finished CRL that can be used is a good idea but I think making it official is worth waiting with until we know for sure that there isn't something we missed that can be added. Certainly no need to rush things out of the gate at least.

[Dday[501st]]

Don't we have all of the external details form the zillions of photos of the 2 original suits at C7? It should be pretty easy (mostly) to hammer out a baseline from these?

[Necronaut[501st]]

Seeing that CRL's are living documents that have the ability to change, I think it would be OK to post a CRL for this suit.  Dday and many others have it correct, there is a lot of visual info to build a CRL for this suit on.  It can always be modified down the road, if new details and found part info comes to light.

 

For those that are waiting for the final, ultimate, boilerplate CRL before even starting their TFA costumes, try building a Boba Fett.  It is the embodiment of a living costume, with lots of change always going on and $$$ changing hands for the latest and greatest, most accurate parts.  

 

Change and revision is not necessarily a bad thing!  I can't imagine that anyone got into this hobby because they hate building and refining costumes.  If you did, there's always the "grandfathering" clause in a CRL update, so no worries there.

 

It is completely inappropriate to hold off on a CRL being posted because a few people are worried that it may not be completely and perfectly correct.  If we waited for every single one of the haters to agree on a CRL, well there probably would not even be a 501st Legion at all.  

 

ANH came out 40 years ago, but the ANH stunt stormie CRL (and many other classic costume CRL's) has been updated very recently because new information and evidence for change and revision was found.  If we hold off on the TFA stormie CRL because it isn't "perfect" according to a few people's standards (and what are their 'special qualifications' that they can hold up an entire Legion of Imperial costumers, huh? ), it will never get posted.  "Perfect" is unattainable because it is a subjective and personal quantity.  Our definition of what is "perfect" or even "acceptable" for a base CRL will differ from person to person.  We have plenty of reference material for this costume.  Let's push forward.  We always have the option of moving backward if necessary.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Necronaut

[Vertex[TK]]

I agree that we all go into this knowing that change is inevitable. As better reference is made available through different medias we have all seen this occur at some point in time.

 

Just as some have made the argument that we should not hold in limbo those that have or will be building a suit between now and December others could easily make a counter argument with things being as fluid as they currently are.

 

Personally I've always viewed the CRL as a go / no go. You either meet the requirements or you don't. I think its safe to say most here share that same view. However I do recognize our present situation as quite different from what we've seen in the past. So with that in mind I would feel more comfortable with a formal CRL if it accounted for this and provided something to mitigate some of the risk the early adopters (alpha's, beta's, Etc) may have. I'd hate for a couple of hundred people to be wrong come December and have to do some serious re-work.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Vertex

[Necronaut[501st]]

I agree that we all go into this knowing that change is inevitable. As better reference is made available through different medias we have all seen this occur at some point in time.

 

Just as some have made the argument that we should not hold in limbo those that have or will be building a suit between now and December others could easily make a counter argument with things being as fluid as they currently are.

 

Personally I've always viewed the CRL as a go / no go. You either meet the requirements or you don't. I think its safe to say most here share that same view. However I do recognize our present situation as quite different from what we've seen in the past. So with that in mind I would feel more comfortable with a formal CRL if it accounted for this and provided something to mitigate some of the risk the early adopters (alpha's, beta's, Etc) may have. I'd hate for a couple of hundred people to be wrong come December and have to do some serious re-work.

Hence a 'grandfathering' clause for those who have done the preliminary work.  Their pioneering work needs to be acknowledged and respected.   

Edited May 15, 2015 by Necronaut

[Vertex[TK]]

Hence a 'grandfathering' clause for those who have done the preliminary work.  Their pioneering work needs to be acknowledged and respected.   

 

(tip of the hat) Oops, sorry about that Brett. Completed missed the line where you brought up grandfathering.

 

Yep, I'm all for that.

[Lichtbringer]

Hence a 'grandfathering' clause for those who have done the preliminary work.  Their pioneering work needs to be acknowledged and respected.   

 

Something i will never understood.

 

Why force later participants to a higher standard, and on the same train let the early adopters  still be acceptable with now known inferior stuff? That´s a bad situation of double standards. If something is that bad it´s no longer acceptable for new applications, it also should be no longer acceptable for everyone.

 

Something is bad, or it´s not. Do, or do not. There is no try.

[Clamps[TK]]

I think a point that everyone may not be seeing here is that we have been provided unprecedented access to screen used and derived kit before the long before the movie comes out. There is more we can learn from more visuals and access for sure, but there is enough reference to build the CRL now. Far more than we have on most costumes that have been in the legion for years.

 

The CRL should be built now for the benefit of all those to come in wave 2,3 and beyond.

 

Will it evolve? Likely yes, as does every CRL. Will there be finds that make current TFA alpha/beta/omega moo "inferior"? Not likely. They are pretty darn close overall. Average Joe/Jane won't spot the differences. I don't remember any non 501st person at Celebration complaining that TFA troopers' boots or blasters were wrong.

 

Current TK kits are not perfect. Do some look better than others sure. All those RS Prop kits are way more accurate than my AP but mine still looks good and acceptable. 99.99% of the world wouldn't know the difference. They see Stormtrooper.

 

And on the topic of CRL evolution...once granted approval on a kit you're in unless it's in such a state of disrepair that it has to be fixed. You can not "force" people to upgrade parts found to be not as accurate after the fact. Encourager them to change, sure, but not force them. Grandfathering happens and will always happen until we completely change the way our club is run. And If it ever becomes a club where absolute accuracy is the focus and the target minimum, I'm out.

 

Anywho, my two pennies. What was my point? -> CRLs sooner than later.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Something i will never understood.

 

Why force later participants to a higher standard, and on the same train let the early adopters  still be acceptable with now known inferior stuff? That´s a bad situation of double standards. If something is that bad it´s no longer acceptable for new applications, it also should be no longer acceptable for everyone.

 

Something is bad, or it´s not. Do, or do not. There is no try.

 

When's the last time you modified armor after spending countless hours of building it?  This armor is painted, some will rattle can it others will go with a professional. I can't imagine having to redo my armor then repaint it just because of a CRL change. Either it will be excepted AS IS! despite CRL changes or we wait. I mentioned grandfathering a few pages back, it wasn't received very well.

 

With the countless pictures we have already a finalized CRL shouldn't be too far off. Minor detail changes should not effect those that were previously approved.     

Edited May 15, 2015 by ukswrath

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Calm down everyone - this is why we have L1/L2/L3.  CRL's will start to change only once a year.  Heck, in the past we'd only update them every 3 years or so.  I'm highly confident that anyone with a current ANOVOS kit will meet L1 standards.  Geez - how long did it take us to get rid of the FX helmet?  10 years at least.  And, the FX suit is still 501st acceptable, btw.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Sorry i need to put more smiley faces in my post so I don't appear grumpy, my bad. 

 

oops!  

Edited May 15, 2015 by ukswrath

[Lichtbringer]

 You can not "force" people to upgrade parts found to be not as accurate after the fact. Encourager them to change, sure, but not force them. Grandfathering happens and will always happen

 

Oh, if i would be the emperor .... i could.    And to be honest, i definately would.

 

That, or let the later folks be accepted with the same low standards. All treated equal.  That´s the way i would look at it as one of those pesky rebels. 

 

I would prefer the system "upgrade, or be informal from date X"   - but not such double standards.  (Not talking TFA armor alone, my opinion is equal on all these CRLs, if something is no longer acceptable, all earlier participants should be also no longer accepted, until they meet the new standards again.) Everything else is unfair handled, no matter if the average Joe will notice it.