The Force Awakens Stormtrooper CRL

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

-soft pouches on the belt.

 

-holster detail with the correct screw info.

 

-decorations: the stickers vs. paint.

 

i really would like this to be the first white armor that *doesnt* have EIB or Centurion.  Just make the CRL inclusive.  'shoulders, elbows, and knees have a ribbed gasket.  Gaskets may be rubber, rubber-like material, or cloth.'

 

let the individual builder decide how insane they want to go, ie, real screws in their resin holster.  i'll bet someone is already making a multi level metal version.

 

 

And please can we keep the ambiguity out of it?  no more 'should' and 'minimal'.  use real measurements.  it is already such a complicated build that it doesn't need interpretation.  it needs specifics.

 

please. 

 

 

That's an interesting idea. The original idea behind EIB was to get folks with FX suits to do a few simple upgrades to look better. That simple intention has been lost over time and many CRL changes (many of which I am guilty of).

 

I do agree that the would "should" drives me batshucks crazy. We might as well write "Well kinda sorta maybe". It's must and shall or don't write it. Other costumes have resorted to using more measurements for small things in their CRL. 

 

At this point I am personally open to the idea of one level but it seems to me that there are really only two levels to this costume. 

 

Regardless of how many levels the first level is meant to be the easiest to approve for the sake inclusivity. 

 

I would add in the belt boxes separate, not to just be included as "the belt"

 

I think I'd need to see how well they photograph before we make that decision. Because if a photo can be taken that can describe both I'd prefer one part. But since there are so many stupid boxes on this thing, you're right it may be better to break them out. But some sort of reference detail is still needed on where they go on the belt. 

 

-Eric

[Mosi[501st]]

Eric, can you keep the info compiled in the OP so it's nice and tidy? I'm sure we're going to see multiple pages of input and it would be easier if it's all in one spot. A google doc would work, too. 

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

Eric, can you keep the info compiled in the OP so it's nice and tidy? I'm sure we're going to see multiple pages of input and it would be easier if it's all in one spot. A google doc would work, too.

Roger that. I'll update the first post as we go along.

 

-Eric

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[plushie[TK]]

 

Thanks Shana: One of the TFA troopers has agreed to take photos this weekend in a photo type studio thing. Let's see what he comes up with. 

 

I was supposed to call Darren the other day to talk about maybe migrating select build threads over here but ended up getting distracted by someone shiny. I'm hoping that can still happen.

 

Krista raised her hand to start collecting information from the TFA private forums as she has been already to post over here.

 

-Eric

 

Excellent! Looks like we're well covered.

[Dmian]

We haven't even laid our hand on these babies and we already have Tiers?

<In C3PO voice>This in madness!

 

[zebedee[TK]]

Also... what do people think of my list in the first post? Have I missed anything? If not I'll start trying to put some words down for each for everyone to nit pick. 

 

-Eric

 

Optional: side-arm (as shown in the promo brochure.)  Pistol mounts on right thigh.

[crow62[501st]]

I hope this will help for the CRL:

 

Boots
For 501st approval:

• White, ankle tall enough to cover the ankle and eliminate any black undersuit visible at the ankle.
• Boots are lace-less with a zipper inside, no webbing or elastic portions (jodhpur or mariachi boots will not be allowed)
• The boots are rounded toe and have a strap that goes over the top of the foot, no stitches in the instep portion
• There are no markings or labels from the shoe makers.
• Boot soles are flat and sides soles up to 1 inch tall
• Boot soles are black 
• Boots may be in leather or like leather material

For Level 2: Boots are made in leather

[camprandall]

Wow, I just realized this was here. Nice!

 

Something I'd like to add is that it's clear now that the days of mimicking the construction and fabrication process for new Star Wars costumes are nearly over. Talking around, including what ANOVOS has publicly said, the screen suits are far too expensive to make and used cutting edge technology. For example, if we say rubber gaskets - well the ones ANOVOS provided aren't exactly right anyways. We should go for the screen "look", as many have said, and where the materials are flexible, leave it flexible. Otherwise we can't even use vacu-formed ABS for this thing, since they used some kind of alternate material with 3D printing, which would eliminate all existing and future suits not built by Disney for movie use.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited April 26, 2015 by camprandall

[Mosi[501st]]

Seems like you just described the screen accurate boots for basic approval. I think that should be Level 2, IMO. If this was the case with the other costumes then there would be a lot fewer members. JRS being one of them. I think an OT TK boot should be allowed for basic approval for now until the more accurate ones are offered on a large scale. 

[svache[501st]]

I hope this will help for the CRL:

 

Boots

For 501st approval:

• White, ankle tall enough to cover the ankle and eliminate any black undersuit visible at the ankle.
• Boots are lace-less with a zipper inside, no webbing or elastic portions (jodhpur or mariachi boots will not be allowed)
• The boots are rounded toe and have a strap that goes over the top of the foot, no stitches in the instep portion
• There are no markings or labels from the shoe makers.
• Boot soles are flat and sides soles up to 1 inch tall
• Boot soles are black 
• Boots may be in leather or like leather material

For Level 2: Boots are made in leather

 

I believe several things in there like the zippers, "jodhpur" etc should be level 2. The idea of the level 1 is to have a minimum in requirements, something people can easily get done and become a member. Without a good source for boots, I would love to see people to be able to be approved with regular TK boots. For example, a reason for me never to have gotten a clone was exactly the boots problem. We should avoid sending people away by making the suits too hard to get done. 

 

If anything, I'd say that the 75 people out there now with TFA armor, should be able to be approved the way they are now. We should use that for minimum requirements, and anything higher should become a level 2 imho. Please don't try to make the basic requirements higher than necessary simply because you are looking to supply the boots (seems like a conflict of interest to me).

[crow62[501st]]

".... Please don't try to make the basic requirements higher than necessary simply because you are looking to supply the boots (seems like a conflict of interest to me)."

 

 

 If TK trilogy boots works for basic requirements its OK for everybody, just want to remind you that I am not the only guy working in the accurated boots, there is the chinese/french fellow and the Anovos supplier as I know, there will be at least three boots sources mine included, so, there is not a conflict of interest to me

[svache[501st]]

 

 

If TK trilogy boots works for basic requirements its OK for everybody, just want to remind you that I am not the only guy working in the accurated boots, there is the chinese/french fellow and the Anovos supplier as I know, there will be at least three boots sources mine included, so, there is not a conflict of interest to me

It doesn't really matter if you're the only one or if there are more vendors, there's something to gain from and that may be seen as, or result in, a conflict of interest

 

But, in all honesty, it doesn't really matter imho. Point in case, to me, is that we shouldn't become an exclusive group and should make it easier for people to join, rather than more restrictive.

[crow62[501st]]

It doesn't really matter if you're the only one or if there are more vendors, there's something to gain from and that may be seen as, or result in, a conflict of interest

 

But, in all honesty, it doesn't really matter imho. Point in case, to me, is that we shouldn't become an exclusive group and should make it easier for people to join, rather than more restrictive.

You are right, in the deep is a conflict of interest, is good to talk about this and the CRL will be a reality soon to have many many ep7 troopers 

[camprandall]

The discussion about there not even being more than one level to start is interesting. I see the point about the fact that those levels exist because of steadily increasing accuracy, not a desire to make a less accurate version out of the gate. I still think though that we need to consider that we won't be able to replicate the materials or process with the expense and technology they're putting into it these days so I think the focus should be on it looking accurate and using similar enough materials to accomplish that. With the shots of the TFA exhibit and the trailer, we have very detailed views on screen suits and I think that TK boots are ok in my book since what actually shows under the spats isn't much. I also think that fabric gaskets that have good ribs on them in the right direction should be ok too, as long as they are well made, which the approval process will take care of because someone always has to see good pics of any suit before approval. I'm not thinking in terms of quick approval here, but about the idea that we can be very accurate looking and not all have the exact same strapping, stitching, etc.

[Necronaut[501st]]

The clone undersuits were supposed to be ribbed, but that was never made a requirement for basic approval. Perhaps we should consider a similar, consistent approach? Or does the gasket add a rather defining look to the suit, in everyone's opinion?

[svache[501st]]

The clone undersuits were supposed to be ribbed, but that was never made a requirement for basic approval. Perhaps we should consider a similar, consistent approach? Or does the gasket add a rather defining look to the suit, in everyone's opinion?

 

I think it does, the costume is quite ugly without those gaskets, and it's worse if someone is a bit boney. 

[Artshot]

Interesting read.

Since I am late into getting a set of armor (AM 2.0 on order, just awaiting the "box is in the post" email), it's fascinating to see what goes into a CRL, however here's a thought.

 

I watched the video from Celebration, the one where two from Anovos are being interviewed, it was mentioned that there would be different tiers of sets to buy, hopefully the difference will only be in pricing, complete or kit ?, however if corners are cut and there are slight differences in the suits from them, the CRL should be adaptable to include whatever they provide (depending on there actual accuracy to the film), not sure if I am saying this correctly.

 

Basically If there suit that is offered for sale falls short of the CRL, there's going to be a lot of disappointment out there.

[Dday[501st]]

Interesting read.

Since I am late into getting a set of armor (AM 2.0 on order, just awaiting the "box is in the post" email), it's fascinating to see what goes into a CRL, however here's a thought.

 

I watched the video from Celebration, the one where two from Anovos are being interviewed, it was mentioned that there would be different tiers of sets to buy, hopefully the difference will only be in pricing, complete or kit ?, however if corners are cut and there are slight differences in the suits from them, the CRL should be adaptable to include whatever they provide (depending on there actual accuracy to the film), not sure if I am saying this correctly.

 

Basically If there suit that is offered for sale falls short of the CRL, there's going to be a lot of disappointment out there.

 

The same disappointment that was felt by Rubies buyers.

 

I'm sure there will be some wiggle room in the CRL's but as long (as you said) they fall within an acceptable level of variation, they should be good. We will really have to see as we get closer to a final CRL and what their full offering is.

[sylverbard[TK]]

Personally I think the CRL needs to be exacting to the point of preventing the disappointment of people buying the wrong stuff. Put strap info and Velcro info and screws and stuff in the CRL. Lead the charge. Troopers helping troopers. First to the fight. Then people can go to their hardware salad fabric store and ask for number 6 metric hex bolts 26mm long and non adhesive Velcro this wide and eleastic this wide.

 

Want more Stormie's? Make it impossible to be told no that's wrong. Making the CRL child's play might get more people buying kits...but they won't finish them.

 

And it will keep third party abuse down. Can't undersell the license holder if you have to spend hundreds of hours finessing your knock off kit.

 

Anovos should sell a strapping kit with everything you need to wear this ...and spares...

[camprandall]

I'm curious about this process since I haven't been around for a long time. Does anyone know how the stormtrooper CRLs were handled when there weren't a lot of suppliers of armor or large forums? I've heard so much about "don't get this kit" even though it was the standard just a few years earlier. I don't think we should short-change the quality of the appearance, but it seems to me that the CRLs were earlier created with suits that were far less accurate than we're starting out with today with the TFAs, and it maybe was a bit based around what was available and not just simply 100% screen accuracy. Any thoughts on that?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

I'm curious about this process since I haven't been around for a long time. Does anyone know how the stormtrooper CRLs were handled when there weren't a lot of suppliers of armor or large forums? I've heard so much about "don't get this kit" even though it was the standard just a few years earlier. I don't think we should short-change the quality of the appearance, but it seems to me that the CRLs were earlier created with suits that were far less accurate than we're starting out with today with the TFAs, and it maybe was a bit based around what was available and not just simply 100% screen accuracy. Any thoughts on that?

I can answer this, as I wrote all the original CRL's for at least the first 7 costumes we covered, and also the IOC CRL's that I helped re-write (which was all of them).

 

Basically we don't take in to regard any one manufacturer. The starting point for the OT CRL's was what was already Legion accepted, which was OOTB (out of the box) FX, so we wrote it that way for BASE acceptance, then took the EI and put that as L2. In the earlier CRL's, we didn't have L1/L2/L3 like we do now. They were written as "must have, should have, can have".

 

Thus the L1 or base standards were written against armor that was widely available and worn by the majority of troopers, even though it was not fully accurate. As makers started to adopt L2/EI standards in to their costumes, we adjust the standards to move what used to be L2/EI and even some L3/Centurion standards down to base.

 

A good example is ab plate buttons. It used to be that you could have big, all black ab plate buttons for a base level acceptance (OOTB FX). As people realized that the right buttons were smaller and different colors, troopers started buying upgrade kits and throwing out the black ones. "Mr. FX" then started offering up correct ab buttons on his own, and within a few years all new kits came with correct ab plate buttons. Once that happened, we altered the base CRL to include only correct ones.

 

Same thing with fabric belts & cut butt plates - both used to be EI only and as more makers adjusted their kits to be L2/EI, then we simply made them base standards.

 

I would say for base standards for TFA, our goal is to take the same path. Base it around what is easy and common to get, and then make harder items L2/L3.

 

For instance base standards can include regular TK boots and maybe make L2/L3 the correct ones. Once there are easy/cheap sources for correct boots, eventually that will become the base standard.

 

Does that make sense?

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Oh, and as far as strapping goes - all 501st CRL's only ever focus on what is externally visible to the viewer. Thus we don't have any CRL's based on TK strapping for things like how people strap the thighs, or if they are using snaps vs. brackets. This is not just TK specific, this is across all CRLs/dets I've ever worked on in the past what - 8 to 10 years?

[gmrhodes13[Staff]]

I would think as we need to use the correct boots for base TK approval then the same should be for base TFA, I think boots supplies will be available very soon so shouldn't really be a problem

[camprandall]

I can answer this, as I wrote all the original CRL's for at least the first 7 costumes we covered, and also the IOC CRL's that I helped re-write (which was all of them).

 

Basically we don't take in to regard any one manufacturer. The starting point for the OT CRL's was what was already Legion accepted, which was OOTB (out of the box) FX, so we wrote it that way for BASE acceptance, then took the EI and put that as L2. In the earlier CRL's, we didn't have L1/L2/L3 like we do now. They were written as "must have, should have, can have".

 

Thus the L1 or base standards were written against armor that was widely available and worn by the majority of troopers, even though it was not fully accurate. As makers started to adopt L2/EI standards in to their costumes, we adjust the standards to move what used to be L2/EI and even some L3/Centurion standards down to base.

 

A good example is ab plate buttons. It used to be that you could have big, all black ab plate buttons for a base level acceptance (OOTB FX). As people realized that the right buttons were smaller and different colors, troopers started buying upgrade kits and throwing out the black ones. "Mr. FX" then started offering up correct ab buttons on his own, and within a few years all new kits came with correct ab plate buttons. Once that happened, we altered the base CRL to include only correct ones.

 

Same thing with fabric belts & cut butt plates - both used to be EI only and as more makers adjusted their kits to be L2/EI, then we simply made them base standards.

 

I would say for base standards for TFA, our goal is to take the same path. Base it around what is easy and common to get, and then make harder items L2/L3.

 

For instance base standards can include regular TK boots and maybe make L2/L3 the correct ones. Once there are easy/cheap sources for correct boots, eventually that will become the base standard.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Thanks for the thorough response! Very interesting. So with all that in mind, I would think that we could go with what is available and update as necessary. I'm not sure on the boots because it could be months so would it hurt to just go with what we have now, which are TK boots, and update the CRL when new available boots show up that are accurate?

 

Thanks!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Well, we'll see. CABoots were base CRL OK for a long time until the advent of TKboots...