AP Armour with ANH Centurion as Goal - Build Thread

[TakoTuesday[501st]]

Nice tip on the split rivets.  I'll be making good use of that info shortly.

[Mutter]

Looking good, Dan! I'd be interested to see how the belt looks snapped on the ab plate. The snaps seem like they may be a bit low. Could just be the angle of the the photo. Otherwise, the rivets and cod/butt snaps look good!

Edited May 10, 2015 by Mutter

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Thanks again and as always Greg! The ab plate is drying right now (snap plates) but I'll upload a picture tomorrow. They may look low because they're at the centre of the belt, which in retrospect may not be ideal. I plan to put Velcro on the ab in the centre, so it will be just fine, but that may be why they look low. The top of the ammo belt lines up with the bottom of the button box (I hope!). Pics tomorrow.

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

It was bugging me so I just checked now, hahaha

 

Look okay?

 

[Mutter]

Looks good, my bad ;-) You shouldn't need to use Velcro in the center of the belt. The snaps should hold it up in place. Having the snaps on the center of the belt is fine. Do you have a particular concern?

[Tusken RTT]

That's funny I was thinking the same thing about the belt snaps looking too low- looks great though!  When is the kidney notch coming? 

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Maybe they look low because they're far out?  Like by the last "ammo boxes" instead of the second last?   It's also the worst possible angle.  The picture makes the cod line look straight, so I must have it tilted back.  That brings me to my concern Greg, which is that it may sag in the centre a little without Velcro.  The snaps actually stop it from being able to be pulled tight (minus), while also insuring it stays a certain amount tight (plus).  If they were closer together it would have less chance of sag.  I already have the Velcro on the belt, so all I need is a square just below the buttons or on that spot a little lower.  Like here . . . 

 

 

Is Velcro really bad?  I can skip it and see.  The costume builder in me tells me to put it there so that it's a worry-free area.

As for the kidney notches, I will do them LAST.  I do not want to do them at all.  I am hoping someone will see their way to eliminating them from the CRLs before I get there.  That said, if they change that CRL before I get there, they may change others at the same time  .  So I kind of have to hurry.  Maybe I'll just use black dry erase marker and draw notches for my submission photos   Just kidding . . . but I do hate the notches! 

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Painted my rivets and ab buttons today . . . 

 

 

[Mutter]

Dan, the velcro is fine. Just curious why you wanted to use it.  If it makes you feel better, go for it!

 

And they just added the kidney notched. I doubt they're going anywhere.

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Oh okay cool! I have just heard a few people are really anti-velcro. I think I'll add a little strip. Sigh, notch. I hate the notch, hahaha Realistically it's sooooo not a big deal, but for some reason it bugs me.

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Forearms survived horrific gluing process pretty unscathed so I can move on with them . . . 

 

 

Added outer cover strips . . . 

 

And decided if I was going to wait 24 hours I may as well glue in the snaps for the joint between the forearms and the biceps.  These bridges are 2" black elastic I believe.  You should use double snaps.  Here is a great thread on it, including a video . . . http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/19372-correct-bicep-to-forearm-connection-anhesb-video-and-photo-references/

Here are mine glued . . . bicep . . . 
 

 

Forearm . . . 

 

That's it for now.  Might try assembling the full torso later since it has all dried and all the snaps and rivets are in.  I will need to measure for the cod to butt elastic strap.  Should be interesting!  Stay tuned.

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Great job Dan, keep up the good work 

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

I would just like to take a moment to register my gripe with the kidney notch requirement.  This has all been said before, but some people might be new and reading about it for the first time. The problem with the notch is that it has no place on AP armour (which is supposedly cast from a LFL armour). The notch is meant to even out the kidney with the ab plate, but with AP armour they are already the same length and line up. So if you add the notch they are misaligned. Then the notched area is narrower than the butt plate. The alternative is to lengthen the kidney so the notch is below the ab (like it's meant to be), but then the torso is too long and the kidney is still narrower than the butt.  It all becomes a big mess, and for no reason. If you look at the original notched armour, it serves a purpose. If you look at RS and TM armours, it makes sense. On AP it doesn't.  

 

Here is a photo from ANH, posted by Locitus, in defence of the notch.  I completely agree this is screen accurate and was visible at times, but this is just one set of armour . . .

 

Here is what RS armour looks like with the notch (originally posted by maxsteele). . . 



Here is what TM armour looks like with the notch (originally posted by maxsteele) . . . 



And here is the same area on AP armour (originally posted by maxsteele). . . 



There is simply no room for it, and it makes no sense.  Again, I appreciate that it is screen accurate, but in order for it to look semi-right on AP armour it would need to be done like this (originally posted by The5thHorseman) . . . 



I am not arguing about whether or not this is in the CRL or whether it should be in EIB or Centurion as was the original debate.  It now exists, and there's nothing I can do about it.  I personally believe it should be optional, or applied on a case by case basis (as it probably was on the originals) because it is a matter of what looks better (because all we're trying to do is build the best looking armour we can, and in the case of AP this will not improve it).  There is even the whole "It will be covered by the belt, so why make it a requirement when no other covered elements are required, like strapping?"  All I am stating here is that I will likely not do it, or do it against my better judgement.  I don't feel that butchering this armour for the purposes of meeting a criteria, that was clearly not set with this armour in mind, makes any sense at all.  I will not alter my armour just to meet some standard based on an arbitrary detail found on a few sets of armour in a few screen shots. If the AP armour is in fact based on LFL armour, it has no notch. Presumably, in the films somewhere, this armour is present and notchless, under its belt. Can I prove there is no notch under the belt of some troopers in the film? No. I also can't prove there are no leprechauns.

I want to go on record as saying, this is one trooper who may not reach Centurion, due to a misguided technicality. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by MechaPumpkin

[Tusken RTT]

Agree on all points (except the one where you talk about not doing it!);  I admit it looks silly on the AP armor.   Your photos are perfect examples.  

It is voluntary though! 

Edited May 13, 2015 by Tusken RTT

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Hey Dan, I completely agree with you, my ATA was the same way, and as Scott stated this is all voluntary. It's your armor, your build.

 

Again, I'm with you on this, I fought the notch requirement tooth and nail, especially because it was being mandated at the centurion level as I was almost finished with my build. I was not a happy camper until something dawned on me, I was the only one who would ever know or care that there is a notch in a area where it wasn't designed to be.

 

Hey, we'll respect you for your decision no matter what it is. You've built a great set of armor so far, A+ in my book.   

 

If you change your mind Centurion is just a 22mm notch away 

[Squeaky[TK]]

where does it say that AP is cast from original armour?

RS is the only kit that is a verified first-generation cast of an original suit. all others are fan sculpt (and some great fan sculpts).

 

not criticizing, just clarifying.

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

where does it say that AP is cast from original armour?

RS is the only kit that is a verified first-generation cast of an original suit. all others are fan sculpt (and some great fan sculpts).

 

not criticizing, just clarifying.

 

AP is the last child of a long lineage of recast from an original armor... but a ROTJ one. The molds have then been modified to look more like ANH.

http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/26479-armour-family-tree/

 

About the notch, even if i agree with you and said i'd never do it, i do have revised my opinion as i said in my Centurion thread:

"Note: I was personally opposed in doing the notches on the AP kydney plate because they wouldn't be on the right position, but i have given it more thoughs afterwards. The AP kydney plate is not really accurate from the beginning, so hurting it a little bit more isn't too bad. Moreover, if these notches are indeed a noticeable feature on accurate kydney plates, they are not on the AP kyney plate. The AP kydney plate being too short, these notches will always be hidden under the belt even if the belt is rightly set on the abdominal plate, making no difference if you have them or not."

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

That is a very good question Steve! I had read it somewhere and stored it in my head, but you're probably absolutely right, my bad. I will try to find what I read when I'm done working later, but I have little doubt you're right.

 

Interesting question though, if AP is fan built, why does it have two identical arms that seem to favour one side? Did one side go missing at some point? Also, I notice the thighs are designed for tab cover build, not butt and cover. Is it maybe a Frankenstein of sorts?

 

I'm still on the fence about this notch. When put in terms of 22mm from Centurion, I get it. I will go EIB, then decide. It's no effort to do it later.

 

I appreciate all the help and encouragement guys. I do plan to join you as Centurion, so I'll cross that bridge when I must!

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Thanks Germain, that is a really cool chart.  Sorry, I must have posted at the same time you did, and didn't see yours.

 

Either way, I apologize for using as the basis of my argument that an AP-like armour existed in the movie and therefore, somewhere, there was a notchless kidney under a belt somewhere.  I see now that there is no reason to know this for sure.  That said, it is still quite possible.  For example, this screen shot shows a VERY small notch because the kidney armour is shorter (the original image was used to demonstrate how white strapping was actually used in some places) . . . 

 

One might infer from this that the kidney's were cut shorter to fit the performer (which makes sense) and that the purpose of the notch was to allow the kidney to bend around their waist without digging into their pelvic bone.

 

My only point right now is that the AP kidney looks very different and fits very different than some of the other armour, and I would PREFER not to alter it in an unflattering way that doesn't make it any more authentic, since it will be misaligned with the ab.  

Ideally I would suggest this be a case-by-case requirement.  If your kidney extends below your ab (you are wearing larger armour), then there should be a notch at the level of your ab.  I feel like one requirement implies another.  Like, if you MUST notch at the kidney/ab level, you must also have a kidney that extends past the ab.  I'm not really suggesting the AP armour be thrown out of acceptance (I would be crazy to suggest that), but the notch is simply made in a place that is not present on AP, so wouldn't it follow that the area to be notched MUST be there to meet the requirement?  In other words, if one must notch their armour where the kidney meets the ab, doing it higher (where one must do it on AP), is wrong.  I assume notch location is as relevant, and important, as something like notch size.

 

Okay that's all I wanted to say about that.  Back to the fun process of completing my kit!!!  Thanks guys.

Edited May 13, 2015 by MechaPumpkin

[Mutter]

Well, I guess you can "notch" it up to experience that the CRL's can be frustrating.  Thank you folks, I'll be hear all week

 

Either way, Dan, your armor is looking great! Don't let something this trivial put you in a foul mood.  Remember, it's only plastic and we're here to have fun.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Mutter

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Totally. I don't want to give the impression it's soured me in ANY WAY. I am loving this process and making progress every day (hammering snaps as I type this . . . well not at the exact same time). For me it's more of an interesting point of debate. I doubt I'll let 22mm of notch stand between me and my goal, but questioning that which I don't understand or agree with is important, I think.

 

My forearms are done and I'm just making straps to the biceps now. Pics shortly!

[bearings[TK]]

I felt the same way, so I hear you man. I ended up doing the notches, it wasn't that big of a deal and is not even that visible with the belt on. Great work on your build so far!

[MechaPumpkin[TK]]

Quick update.  I don't think I posted a picture of my inner snaps all in place, so here it is.  I know when I was reading other build threads it bothered me when there was a whole piece or step missing.  

I may add a 4th snap at the top of the rivet side for 2 reasons.  First, the top wants to spread the most because I have a large rib cage.  Second, if I notch the bottom, I may have to remove the bottom snap.  Here's a pic . . . 

 

 

Next, I finished off my forearm cover strips, but I haven't trimmed them or sanded them.  I decided to make the elastics and snap them in and have a look at them joined to the biceps.  Here are the straps attached to the biceps . . .

 

Here it is, no body suit, and not completely finished, but proud enough to post a pic nonetheless, hahaha I have arms!

 

 

Lastly, for tonight, here is a pic of my torso semi-assembled . . . 

 

Tomorrow my legs come out of the box . . . nervous!!!

Edited May 14, 2015 by MechaPumpkin

[BIGDEAL[TK]]

Great work Danny !!

[ukswrath[Staff]]

Seriously, very nice