DVH Pipe Build with Extras

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Will definitely pick up some of these types of high speed cutters today to try them, Main section I need to smooth out is the large radius at the front of the ejection port.

 

 

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Well, I bought some of the above bits. Had to buy 'dremel' as no one here seems to sell cheaper brands other than huge multipacks, which don't have those bits anyway. 

 

And I should have an update with my one and possibly only original idea in the next couple of days. In the mean time, I'd better clean my little work table! Space is still a bit restricted after moving recently.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Ok - My one and only original idea (although I have just thought of another one, so stay tuned for that one). I really want as many functional parts that I can on this build. Next to think about was the selector switch. Many just glue it on, or put it on a post, or screw through it, but I wanted to try get the switch to 'click' into position. Hmmm....

 

Found this at the local electronics store. Its a rotary dial/switch. Not sure what it would be currently used for - old style TV channel changer, something like that. It comes in 3 step, 6 step and 12 step positions.

 

It is big though:

 

Pulled apart to see what is usable. Basically the spring pushes the ball bearing into place and 'clicks' into position:

 

Bad news, I need to maintain the diameter to keep it operational, but I can cut down the height and remove the back of it no problem

 

Started hollowing out the handle where the switch will need to go

 

And fits right in

 

Then I basically glued it in, ensuring I didn't get glue onto any of the moving parts (ok, I lie. First time I DID glue to rotating parts, so had to pull it our and re-do it). I then placed some styrene to cover the bulk of the hole, then filled the rest with green stuff. Still in the process of final shaping. I will try to get most of the definition/features back, but not to the extent that others are doing at the moment 

 

Cheers

Ian

[T-Jay[TK]]

What a nice idea!

[Bulldog44[TK]]

Awesome Ian. That is totally a super mod! Nice idea on how to fit it in there.

I will try that on my DVH kit when I get to it.

Another leap ahead for customizing these kits. Keep up the great work!

[usaeatt2]

INNOVATION GENIUS!!!

 

I might have to steal this (and give you full credit, of course)!

 

A rotary switch will work perfectly with the metal side plates.

I was planning something a little more complicated, but also with more potential for failure - I love the simplicity of this solution.

 

Now I'll have to start looking for a small rotary switch...and hollow out the cavity for it...

 

Do the detent positions line up with the A, R, S letters?  Even if it's close, that's good enough.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Appreciate it.

 

Do the detent positions line up with the A, R, S letters?  Even if it's close, that's good enough.

I was worried on the drive home, whether the 3 step switch would line up, thinking I should have got a different one. I thought I'd give it a go anyway and replace the switch if it was no good. I unfortunately never got to test it, as when I put the switch back together it lost its 3 step phase and turned into a multi switch set up. No idea how as it could only go back together one way....

 

So it actually now 'ratchets' all the way through from A to S. I think I quite like it better this way. Makes a cool sound, 'ratcheting' through the range.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Forgot to take a 'finished' photo of the selector switch after sanding and tidying up. Oh well, that will come...The trigger. Nothing fancy here. All been done before, the old ball point pen spring trick. The trigger mold did need a bit of filling

 

 

Packed with green stuff, then sanded

 

About there I reckon....

 

Hollowed out, plus a small hole to fit the spring.

 

Two ball point pens were sacrificed for the making of this E-11

 

The DVH kit comes with a mold of a 'real' trigger, hence the very large hole. A bit harder to hide than a little pin that most use for Doopy builds. Luckily the pour spouts were still on the folding stock which was a perfect diameter. To take up the slack, I placed a regular metal washer either side of the trigger. That also ensures it stays centred.

 

In, and working

 

To try to conceal the pivot pin and to 'lock' it in position, I sanded it down flush, then carved a slot in it, across the main handle part aswell

 

Then inserted some ABS to 'lock' the two together

 

And....... bugger! Missed that photo too. Will post this reply now incase I get caught up with the twins.... Update to come.

 

And a bit of epoxy and sanded smooth. Here's a bit of a better shot of the finished selector switch too

 

Thanks for having a look. Feel free to offer sugestions/improvements.

 

Cheers

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sith Lord

[usaeatt2]

Loving the "trigger pin lock" and "recycling the pour spout" ideas.

The selector switch looks GREAT!  AND IT'S FUNCTIONAL!!! 

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Thanks Aaron. I should have mentioned in my earlier post - I used the 'locking' idea for the selector switch too. Basically put two cuts with the cut off wheel on the dremel in the switch handle and the electronics switch shaft with a piece of ABS joining the 2.

 

 

LOL! Nice picture created in MS Paint...

[I'm Batman[501st]]

 

Ian, have you thought about doing this on a aluminium tube, or a steel tube? It just seems a shame to do all this work for a lowly PVC tube. I never really even thought about this prior to just now.

 

 

 

Ok, as previously mentioned I did go and buy an aluminium tube. I had a few dramas with drilling and smoothing. I ended up ordering and waiting (and waiting) for a step drill set (thanks for the tip Aaron, and others) and those dremel bits spoken about. They really do work quite well on aluminium. 

 

One tube

 

150hrs labour later, and BAM!

 

I opted for the 40mm OD, 34mm ID pipe which was the same as the PVC I started with, mainly for the ability to use pins and not have to worry about screws. A few internal moving parts planned 

 

For interests sakes - 40mm drilled PVC = 176grams. 40mm drilled Aluminium = 320grams

 

As discussed earlier, I've used JB Weld epoxy and metal pins (lucky I had one coathanger left. The rest are plastic). Let's start with the real folding stock

 

Pins sitting proud. Will grind off later

 

And gone.

 

It seems pretty solid, but time will tell I guess. Will contine with epoxy'ing some other items next.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Sith Lord

[Dday[501st]]

Looking good!

 

With the E11 builds going around these days, I am super impressed with the innovations people are coming up with, and it just seems a shame to do all this awesome work and just to put it on a plastic base.

[gazmosis[501st]]

How far do those pins go into the receiver tube? Were you able to grind those down? Might have an issue sliding the blot in with little nubs sticking out. Wicked cool,build so,far!

[Bulldog44[TK]]

Loving that drilled aluminium receiver. Use a drill press for the holes? Looks really sharp and all your lines super straight.

[usaeatt2]

SUPER NICE!!!  Great work, Ian! 

You have to believe all those hours of labor were worth it!

It's a good feeling to drill the last hole and not have anything screwed up, crooked or out of alignment!

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Looking good!

 

With the E11 builds going around these days, I am super impressed with the innovations people are coming up with, and it just seems a shame to do all this awesome work and just to put it on a plastic base.

 

Thanks Derrek. Even though it will all be covered in a few layers of paint, it is definitely worth it, knowing what's underneath and looking at and feeling it as you build. (Hmm, that sounds a bit saucy, doesn't it)

 

How far do those pins go into the receiver tube? Were you able to grind those down? Might have an issue sliding the blot in with little nubs sticking out. Wicked cool,build so,far!

 

I did drill straight though, then put tape on the inside before I put the pins in. I really only had to sand down the aluminium shards that were there from drilling. Future pins I might get tricky and try to only drill 2.5mm or so into the 3.0mm pipe. Don't know how successful I'll be though. Thanks for the comment!

 

Loving that drilled aluminium receiver. Use a drill press for the holes? Looks really sharp and all your lines super straight.

 

Thanks Brian. Yep, used a drill press. I also routed a V-groove into a length of timber to sit the tube in. It did help a bit to keep it straight, but as I didn't clamp it, it did still move around a little. The Step Drill bit helped me manually tidy up the few holes that were off.

 

SUPER NICE!!!  Great work, Ian! 

You have to believe all those hours of labor were worth it!

It's a good feeling to drill the last hole and not have anything screwed up, crooked or out of alignment!

 

Thanks Aaron. Sure is. I was glad to see the last of it though. I don't envy Derrek who manually did all those tubes he was shipping out with his kits. Bring on the CNC machined ones.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

I'm not 100% on this next bit, but the DVH kit comes with the enlarged rear cap lock/end piece. The idea is that it slides into the pipe, glues on and the end cap goes on as normal.

 

My concern with this is that it takes the inside diameter from 34mm to about 25mm. Problem with that is if I put a spring in there, it needs to be 34mm so it fits to the inside of the main receiver. Right? Then it won't be able to come out of the 25mm end piece. Neither will the inner bolt. Not that they need too, but I might want to in the future.

 

 

I probably should have asked advice first, but I've cut off the bit that goes into the receiver, then I started to enlarge the ID of the end piece

 

And that's where I'm at. I guess it will just end up being an extension of the main tube which I'll have to secure with extra pins or a locking method similar to the way I did my trigger pin.

 

Thoughts?

Edited December 4, 2014 by Sith Lord

[I'm Batman[501st]]

While I'm on the end cap - a question o the real sterling owners.... Is it the idea that the end cap screws onto the receiver, then the spring pushes it back to secure it in place. And the way the folding stock locks into place is by the end cap moving forward to allow the stock to slide into the little catches, then the cap 'springs' back to lock onto the tabs? So I need to make sure my spring is long enough and strong enough to do this.

 

I hope that makes sense

 

 

Not a great pic but hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about.

[Dday[501st]]

While I'm on the end cap - a question o the real sterling owners.... Is it the idea that the end cap screws onto the receiver, then the spring pushes it back to secure it in place. And the way the folding stock locks into place is by the end cap moving forward to allow the stock to slide into the little catches, then the cap 'springs' back to lock onto the tabs? So I need to make sure my spring is long enough and strong enough to do this.

 

I hope that makes sense

 

 

Not a great pic but hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about.

 

You are right about the spring providing the tension for the end cap.

 

The end cap is locked in place by the clip on the bottom of the tube. You press it down and then you can push the cap in. If the clip is not pressed in there is a pin on the inside that stops the cap from being able to move.

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

The Outside Diameter of a real Sterling spring seems to be 28mm according to this thread, so you wouldn't have sacrificed too much if you had kept the gluing tab of the rear cap lock.

 

However, with the OD of your pipe being too large of few cm, i wonder if that rear cap lock will work as it's supposed to. I mean, the OD of the rear cap lock is 41.3mm and your pipe's OD is 40mm so... not much of a difference.

Edited December 4, 2014 by The5thHorseman

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Thanks Derrek - I guess that as we don't have a working lock, I'll need to rely on the spring in order to have the end cap removable and able to lock/unlock the folding stock.

 

And thank you Germain. That picture down the bottom of that thread is what I was looking for, showing the smaller first spring and larger second spring. I think in one of Aaron's threads it shows the spring nearly at the ID of the pipe, so I'll try source something that fits (or make my own).

 

I'm not sure if I fully understand your second point though Germain. I think a real sterling is 38.1mm and mine is 40mm, but apparently Lou designed his parts around a 40mm pipe. Derrek will possibly confirm. Everything seems to function ok (apart from the lock underneath of course.

 

I do hope that I haven't made a mistake though. The outer circumference of the rear lock wasn't perfectly circular, so I sanded it smooth, equal to the pipe - 40mm. Still seems to function ok. Pics to come.

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

I do hope that I haven't made a mistake though. The outer circumference of the rear lock wasn't perfectly circular, so I sanded it smooth, equal to the pipe - 40mm. Still seems to function ok. Pics to come.

 

The outside diameters aren't suppose to be the same circumference. I'm having hard time finding a decent reference pic from an original Sterling though, i guess we will have to wait for Aaron or Someone else to chime in.

But from a template perspective, here's how it should be:

 

And on a Doopy:

[Dday[501st]]

Thanks Derrek - I guess that as we don't have a working lock, I'll need to rely on the spring in order to have the end cap removable and able to lock/unlock the folding stock.

 

And thank you Germain. That picture down the bottom of that thread is what I was looking for, showing the smaller first spring and larger second spring. I think in one of Aaron's threads it shows the spring nearly at the ID of the pipe, so I'll try source something that fits (or make my own).

 

I'm not sure if I fully understand your second point though Germain. I think a real sterling is 38.1mm and mine is 40mm, but apparently Lou designed his parts around a 40mm pipe. Derrek will possibly confirm. Everything seems to function ok (apart from the lock underneath of course.

 

I do hope that I haven't made a mistake though. The outer circumference of the rear lock wasn't perfectly circular, so I sanded it smooth, equal to the pipe - 40mm. Still seems to function ok. Pics to come.

 

The Parts are sterling and there isn't any resizing done to account for the 40mm OD pipe. What is fitted to the 40mmOD pipe is the predone curves on the grip, mag well and rear sight. But there was no scaling of parts in the kit, they are straight 1:1 copies of the sterling parts.

[usaeatt2]

I posted this video awhile back - don't know if it helps, but if you watch it enough times, you can see how everything fits and works in relation to the other parts.

If you don't lift the clip, the end cap hits the square portion of the clip and the end cap cannot be rotated.

By lifting the clip, you create clearance and allow the end cap to be pushed all the way forward, which also allows rotation.

Another point:  the pin on the clip is confusing - it doesn't have anything to do with the end cap function.

The pin is a "stop" and it's only there to prevent the clip from dropping down too far when it's released.

In other words, the pin touches the receiver tube and limits clip travel when you're not using the clip.

 

 

The semi-circle notch on the end cap is also interesting - the notch isn't necessary, but it helps when working the folding stock.

The clip lifts far enough that nothing prevents end cap movement, so why even take the time to machine the end cap notch?

Here's why: If you're going to open the folding stock (which can be complicated and requires two hands), the end cap notch can assist.

After I realized it, this is how I open the folding stock:

Release the stock handle at the front.

Open the folding stock.

Lift the clip and push the end cap forward.

Release the clip and allow the pin to rest in the end cap notch.

Maintain forward pressure on the end cap to hold everything in place (if you let go of the end cap, the spring will push it back to the normal position)

At this point, the end cap is far enough forward to allow the folding stock to drop into the external end cap notches.

Once the folding stock is in place, release the end cap and it snaps back to it's normal position and locks the folding stock in place.

Advantage? You don't have to hold the clip while doing everything else.

ALSO, when the pin is resting in the end cap notch, it prevents the end cap from rotating and accidentally releasing.

 

A LOT of information for a pipe build, but I figure it helps everyone to understand the functions of the Sterling.

Knowing how it was intended to work helps make decisions for a replica build.

 

Vern has critiqued it on almost every Doopy build - most people place the clip too far forward.

Since a resin clip doesn't lift, you don't have any choice but to position it forward IF you want to remove the end cap.

The forward position of a non-functional resin clip allows clearance for the end cap to move forward enough to rotate and release.

 

I plan to carve out the inner portion of my resin clip, remake the outer portion with styrene sheet and install a pivot pin and small spring.

This will solve all kinds of problems and provide one more functional feature on a resin build...

 

Measurements (I rounded - most of us can't achieve the tenths of a millimeter shown on Andy's drawing  ):

Receiver OD:  38mm

End lug OD: 41mm

Receiver ID:  35mm

End lug ID:  35mm

Receiver wall thickness:  1.5mm

End lug wall thickness:  3mm

Edited December 4, 2014 by usaeatt2

[I'm Batman[501st]]

The Parts are sterling and there isn't any resizing done to account for the 40mm OD pipe. What is fitted to the 40mmOD pipe is the predone curves on the grip, mag well and rear sight. But there was no scaling of parts in the kit, they are straight 1:1 copies of the sterling parts.

 

Gotcha. Thanks