DVH Pipe Build with Extras

[I'm Batman[501st]]

when the bolt is properly assembled and under compression it looks much different than the exploded version.

 

I'm getting ready to post a photo.

 

That's what I'm thinking....

[Bulldog44[TK]]

OK, here we go...measurements with a Starrett caliper.

Imperial measurements (metric in parathesis) as pictured.

 

Total height:  1.305" (33.147mm)

Lip diameter:  1.145" (29.083mm)

Lip thickness:  0.142" (3.607mm)

Cup outer diameter:  0.968" (24.587mm)

Hole diameter:  0.730" (18.542mm)

Bevel angle:  30 degrees

 

 

 

 

Thank you again Aaron a million times over. This will be useful for many years to come. 

[usaeatt2]

One last question - the height/length of the cup is 33mm. Is that how far it protrudes from the end of the bolt (the visible length) - ie: it doesn't actually insert into the bolt at all (like I did do with my timber one)?

 

Actually 2 - How deep is the hole in the second picture?

 

The recoil cup enters to back of the bolt when the small spring is compressed.

On mine, 26mm or just over 1" is visible.

Parallax error throws off the measurement in the picture...looking at it head on, the visible portion of the cup extends from 44mm to 70mm.

The ruler is shifted to the right so it lays flat against the receiver - otherwise it would be hiked up on the end cap.

 

The hole is like if you took a paper drinking cup and cut a hole in the bottom of it.

The hole is about 1mm deep (thickness of the sheet metal).  If I hold the cup up, I can look straight through the hole and out the end with the lip.

 

 

Valparaiso is a nice place, but not very green right now (snow).  We have new roundabouts all over the place and it's a university town, so there's a lot to do.  We have an awesome mayor and he does lots of community projects, keeps the roads in excellent shape and has lots of festivals and musical events at the pavillion downtown.  You can go to any number of restaurants within sight of the pavillion, have dinner outside and listen to a concert.  One time, the city put pianos out on every corner.  People would just stop and play...my wife LOVED that - I thought we were going to be downtown FOREVER that night.  In the summer, I like to take my boat up to Lake Michigan and cruise to Chicago with friends (girls in bikinis!!!) and drinks.  I like to say Valparaiso is "small town living with big city influence" (from Chicago).

[I'm Batman[501st]]

when the bolt is properly assembled and under compression it looks much different than the exploded version.

 

this is a real bolt handle and charging assembly.

 

seated in the tube.  (note the lack of the square detail at the front.)

 

and pressed down to the 10-11 coils length.  (end cap is not fully in place)

 

Awesome. Thanks Vern

 

The recoil cup enters to back of the bolt when the small spring is compressed.

On mine, 26mm or just over 1" is visible.

Parallax error throws off the measurement in the picture...looking at it head on, the visible portion of the cup extends from 44mm to 70mm.

The ruler is shifted to the right so it lays flat against the receiver - otherwise it would be hiked up on the end cap.

 

The hole is like if you took a paper drinking cup and cut a hole in the bottom of it.

The hole is about 1mm deep (thickness of the sheet metal).  If I hold the cup up, I can look straight through the hole and out the end with the lip.

 

 

I would have just said "I started from the centre of the charging handle"  .

 

I think I'm understanding more now. More of a see through cylinder, which is why you were puzzled when I was calling it a recess 

 

 

Valparaiso is a nice place, but not very green right now (snow).  We have new roundabouts all over the place and it's a university town, so there's a lot to do.  We have an awesome mayor and he does lots of community projects, keeps the roads in excellent shape and has lots of festivals and musical events at the pavillion downtown.  You can go to any number of restaurants within sight of the pavillion, have dinner outside and listen to a concert.  One time, the city put pianos out on every corner.  People would just stop and play...my wife LOVED that - I thought we were going to be downtown FOREVER that night.  In the summer, I like to take my boat up to Lake Michigan and cruise to Chicago with friends (girls in bikinis!!!) and drinks.  I like to say Valparaiso is "small town living with big city influence" (from Chicago).

 

 

Very nice. Sounds great! I've got a mate I used to work with who took a posting to Chicago. He and his family were just back home for Christmas. They are really enjoying the different lifestyle.

[Dday[501st]]

when the bolt is properly assembled and under compression it looks much different than the exploded version.

 

this is a real bolt handle and charging assembly.

 

seated in the tube.  (note the lack of the square detail at the front.)

 

 

 

and pressed down to the 10-11 coils length.  (end cap is not fully in place)

 

 

Nice looking tube there Vern.

[T-Jay[TK]]

 

Vern, I am currently a bit confused by your picture above. You said it shows a real bolt handle and charging assembly. According to Derrek's comment about the pipe I assume it is one of Derrek's CNC milled aluminum pipes, correct?

 

But it looks like something is wrong, because we can't see the little extractor in full length. Is that opening port too small or is that charging handle slot oversized and the handle gets too close?

Edited January 23, 2015 by T-Jay

[usaeatt2]

Vern, I am currently a bit confused by your picture above. You said it shows a real bolt handle and charging assembly. According to Derrek's comment about the pipe I assume it is one of Derrek's CNC milled aluminum pipes, correct?

 

But it looks like something is wrong, because we can't see the little extractor in full length. Is that opening port too small or is that charging handle slot oversized and the handle gets too close?

 

The bolt wouldn't normally be that far forward.  When assembled, the back of the barrel stops the bolt from moving forward.  I don't know if you remember, but during my steel piupe build, I seriously messed up the charging handle slot by triggering the bolt without a barrel installed.  Without the barrel, the charging handle HITS the front of the slot, just like Vern's picture.  I know Vern is only showing real parts fit in Derrek's receiver, but there's the explanation...

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Good explanation, Aaron. I noiced in your build there is a picture of your bolt in a very similar position. I didn't read the text, but perhps you hadn't put the barrel in yet. Is it just a matter of a mm or two difference?

 

That might be something to consider doing - make sure the bolt hits something insde the receiver instead of the charging handle itting the end of the channel. At the moment mine comes to rest on the changing handle. That could weaken it over time....

[usaeatt2]

With the force on the spring behind the bolt, I'm pretty sure it would snap a resin charging handle off. I would definitely install a barrel BEFORE triggering the bolt. The barrel should be long enough to provide a couple millimeters clearance for the charging handle.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

well said aaron.

 

the parts I presented are in fact real sterling parts in the DDay tube.

 

Vern, I am currently a bit confused by your picture above. You said it shows a real bolt handle and charging assembly. According to Derrek's comment about the pipe I assume it is one of Derrek's CNC milled aluminum pipes, correct?

 

But it looks like something is wrong, because we can't see the little extractor in full length. Is that opening port too small or is that charging handle slot oversized and the handle gets too close?

The original parts are in the correct positions.

 

the internal barrel pushes back on the assembly.

essentially this is the position shown on most builds.

 

do you have an original barrel aaron?

I have the original internal barrel but I don't have an original receiver.

 

and the key here is that aaron's main tube and my main tubes are not original dimensions.

he has taken a cut up build and made it from scratch.

and I am also making it from scratch.

 

the whole process of measurement and placement should be taken from a sterling that was not rebuilt.

Edited January 24, 2015 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

The bolt wouldn't normally be that far forward.  When assembled, the back of the barrel stops the bolt from moving forward.  I don't know if you remember, but during my steel piupe build, I seriously messed up the charging handle slot by triggering the bolt without a barrel installed.  Without the barrel, the charging handle HITS the front of the slot, just like Vern's picture.  I know Vern is only showing real parts fit in Derrek's receiver, but there's the explanation...

how does this compare with a real sterling. photos from us don't cover the exact dimensions.

the front of the slot and the charging handle and the orientation shows the design of the Dday tube.

 

we have to use the original sterling, with an original tube. full auto. to make exact measures.

 

using DDay tube I like the position of the bolt and of the charging handle!

 

I think it looks just fine and I don't feel that the inner barrel really adjusts the seat for the main bolt that much.

 

let me dig up a photo

Edited January 24, 2015 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[usaeatt2]

I'd be interested to know if the charging handle is offset from the front of the slot on a real Sterling and if so, by how much? In my mind, and from practical experience with my replica, there MUST be at least a small offset. The reason is because the front of the slot is rounded and the front of the charging handle has small vertical ridges. IF the vertical ridges hit the front of the slot, it DEFINITELY leaves a mark...I know, because I had to file the marks down...twice. The exact same thing would happen on an original and most certainly on an aluminum tube if there's enough force from the spring. Mine may have a little more clearance than an original because of the filing. Maybe I could check with Andy - I know he has an original Sterling.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

With the force on the spring behind the bolt, I'm pretty sure it would snap a resin charging handle off. I would definitely install a barrel BEFORE triggering the bolt. The barrel should be long enough to provide a couple millimeters clearance for the charging handle.

Interesting discussion happening about real sterlings. I put my pieces together tonight and I do have enough play in my assembled barrel to position it so the bolt hits IT, and not the handle. My spring isn't super strong, and my handle is reinforced with that 2" nail, but I'll play it safe anyway... I'll probably position it just a couple of mm back unless we get confirmation otherwise.

[Dday[501st]]

When I drill the holes in the bottom of the receiver for the bolt an handle I use the position of the charging handle fully forward to the edge. Not necessarily accurate, but for me, aesthetically it looks better. Easy enough to bring it back a little bit though. The holes are hidden under the grip and the resin bolt is easy enough to give it some new holes if you want to reposition in the build.

[usaeatt2]

Quoting myself? 

 

I'd be interested to know if the charging handle is offset from the front of the slot on a real Sterling and if so, by how much? In my mind, and from practical experience with my replica, there MUST be at least a small offset. The reason is because the front of the slot is rounded and the front of the charging handle has small vertical ridges. IF the vertical ridges hit the front of the slot, it DEFINITELY leaves a mark...I know, because I had to file the marks down...twice. The exact same thing would happen on an original and most certainly on an aluminum tube if there's enough force from the spring. Mine may have a little more clearance than an original because of the filing. Maybe I could check with Andy - I know he has an original Sterling.

 

WELL, here's the verdict...the charging handle IS offset from the front of the slot.

Following is a direct quote from PlayfulWolfCub (Andy) based on measurements of his REAL Sterling:

 

"My Sterling has a 3.5mm gap between the front of the charging handle & the end of the slot. As you say in the thread, the front of the charging handle isn't round, so it couldn't possibly reach the end of the slot. Also the purpose of the bolt is to hit the percussion cap of the bullet with enough force to ignite it, isn't it? If the handle did hit the end of the slot it would reduce the force of the impact unless the engineering was absolutely spot on - Why would an engineer give themselves that extra headache unnecessarily? So we have visual, logical & engineering evidence that there is a gap."

 

Turns out my replica is accurate down to this detail.  I didn't plan this, it's just where the parts ended up due to the engineering and using a real barrel.

Edited January 25, 2015 by usaeatt2

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Finishing off the cup, I hollowed out the centre part, just enough to create the illusion of it being hollow/cylindrical. Then coated the piece in epoxy to enable it to be sanded to a smooth finish, eliminating any timber grain marks.

(yes, I forgot to hollow out before coating, so had to do a re-coat before sanding)

 

The key measurement I was looking for was the 26mm length, provided by Aaron. Thankyou sir. So I sanded mine down so this much only protruded from the bolt. You can hardly see the lip/hollow/cylinder within the cup. Hard to see in the photo, even hard to see in real life, but I'm glad it's there.

[T-Jay[TK]]

Outstanding work, Ian!

 

Feeling ashamed now for simply using a board marker pen in my build for this.

 

Yours looks so much better

 

While looking at your pictures and never having done a pipe build before: will you paint the INSIDE of the receiver barrel black? If yes, how? All through that charging handle slot?

Edited January 25, 2015 by T-Jay

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Outstanding work, Ian!

 

Feeling ashamed now for simply using a board marker pen in my build for this.

 

Yours looks so much better

 

 

Thanks Tino. Remember, completely different builds. You had a much smaller diameter of the Doopy to work with. I could work towards a little more accuracy with the larger pipe.

 

 

 

While looking at your pictures and never having done a pipe build before: will you paint the INSIDE of the receiver barrel black? If yes, how? All through that charging handle slot?

 

Oh no, the dreaded painting question. I know, I will have to address this sometime soon. To answer your two questions - 1) yes I will paint it. 2) I don't know!  I guess just through any opening I can get to... I do have an airbush which should make it a bit easier for me. However, coming back to question 1, I'm not 100% sure on colour yet. My first thought was black, but I'll need to do some more research on what possible colours they could have been.

[Bulldog44[TK]]

Sick! Ian that is one mean recoil cup. I thought the first attempt was suitable but you took it up a few notches more to incorporate the hollowed out effect. The lip of the cup is great and beveled beautifully. From your photos of it placed in your receiver behind the bolt, you can see the details very clearly and this is something to be proud of creating.

Another massive leap in mods! Outstanding!

[I'm Batman[501st]]

A few more little completions happening. 1-The folding stock. Nothing too special here, as I've already documented installing the hinge point on about page 2 or 3. That is by far the hardest part. The rest just sort of fits into position. Or so I thought.... As seen on other threads, the stock slips over the hinge rods

 

Then the outer pin slips in and the small pin slots in to hold it all in place.

 

Back on day 1 or so, I positioned the folding stock into position and marked EXACTLY where the end cap MUST sit. It is critial this be correct with real folding stocks as the end cap is what holds thestock into position. It moves forward to allow the stock to swing into positon, then the cap springs back to lock the stock into final extended position. This is also why is was important for me to get a fuly functional spring as earlier discussed.

 

I did have one glitch. The stock wouldn't lock into it's closed position,. Couldn't find out why, until I realisd the catch was hitting my inner barrel. To overcome this I cut out a notch to allow the catch move into position anganst the inner part of the receiver.

 

And installed

[Dday[501st]]

Well done!

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Next is the magazine. not sure why I didn't discuss this earlier.... As pictured earlier I obtained one of the first edition magnificent creations from Gazmosis. It is truly a work of art requiring no modifications at all, oh, apart from green stuff repairing my own stuffup!

 

 

Ok, laugh at me on this one.... The one thing I did do to the magazine set up, is made it removable!

 

Hollowed out a cavity in both the magazine and the mag housing to accomodate a magnet. Epoxy'd the magnet in each half. You can't tell at all from the outside. Whether it proves to be practical or not, we'll see. If it falls out or gets stolen, Steve will have another sale....

 

 

Thanks for checking in.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Sith Lord

[Bulldog44[TK]]

Again, great ! Good detective work on finding out why the stock wasn't locking into position & the quick fix.

 

Love the magazine magnet idea! I think it should stay put without incident.

Nearly finished adding on all the external parts.

[usaeatt2]

Crikey!  This is COOL!!

 

I love the magnet idea.  I was going to hollow out my magazine for electronics.

I wonder if there's room to put small neodynium magnets in the corners and still leave the center hollow?

Ian, you're inspiring a bunch of modifications that I wouldn't have done - glad you're finishing yours before I finish mine! 

[T-Jay[TK]]

The magazine magnet! Nice mod, Ian