usaeatt2 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I gave this QUITE a bit of thought before applying any heat to my Gino tracks. ONE chance, or I was going to spend another $80 (this happened PRE-Roy)... That's WHY I made the little bending jig. In my mind (but I'm pretty warped to begin with) it goes something like this: After you heat the plastic, it's sort of in a "semi-solid" state, which means it's going to warp and buckle anywhere it doesn't have support. When you bend the track over the edge of a board or a table, you're stretching the vertical portion and COMPRESSING the horizontal portion. The plastic can't compress into itself, and it can't compress into the table, so it buckles UP. I'm trying to stretch the vertical portion while keeping the horizontal section flat. Hmmm...that gives me another idea...you could probably lay the track on the edge of the table, lay some of your leftover rail scraps on top of each side of the track, push those down with two fingers and bend the track over the edge with your other hand. The scraps prevent the plastic from compressing upward, the table prevents it from compressing downward and it can't compress into itself...it can only go towards the bend...the only downside is you MIGHT leave marks on the soft plastic. I'll have to try that. One other factor...temperature. I wanted the plastic to stay closer to a solid than a liquid so I could maintain more control. When heating the t-track, you should be spinning the track between your fingers to EVENLY heat it all the way around, while holding it an inch or two away from the tip. Concentrate the heat a little more on the vertical portion because that is WHERE you want most of the bending to happen. It takes awhile, but you can make as many attempts as you like. Do you think it's too hot? STOP. Let it cool down a few seconds. If you watch REALLY CLOSE, you can see the plastic expand ever so slightly once it starts getting hot enough. When you think it's ready, stick it in the jig and try the pulling/bending. If it's not hot enough, try again. A few of mine only made it to about 45 degrees before I couldn't bend them anymore. No problem, just pull it out and warm it up a little more, then try again. I only had very SLIGHT warpage on maybe one piece and that's because I think I got it too hot. Sorry Vern, but I honestly don't think putting the 'V' shape on the end first has ANYTHING to do with it. The plastic really doesn't care what shape it is when you bend it. In fact, if you get the plastic too hot, it just wants to relax wherever it can, which is why temperature is so important. NOT SO HOT! OK, so just to prove my theory to myself, I dug out my Marv track (nobody can claim "but Marv track is probably a different type of plastic than Roy's so it responds differently"). I also got out my trusty T-track jig (just a scrap of steel with a 1/2" hole drilled in it). "But Sterling holes are 7/16"" - Yes, they ARE, but we're not INSTALLING the tracks, we're BENDING them! I need the 1/2" hole to clear the untrimmed track. I used the method above to warm up the end of the track. When it was ready, I placed the end through the jig, grabbed that end with the fingers of my right hand and started bending CAREFULLY with my left hand. AT THE SAME TIME, I had my index finger on the little groove in the bottom applying outward pressure to prevent any warpage to the horizontal area. I was also pulling slightly with my right hand, just enough to balance the forces. When I was done bending, this is what it looked like. You can see I'm not even touching the jig with the majority of the track - only where the bend happened. You can also see the horizontal portion didn't warp at all. And closer inspection of the finished bend: NOW, you can do your trimming. Try it! It shouldn't be too tough to scrounge up a scrap of metal and drill a 1/2" hole! I said the process is soothing and relaxing and I believe it is. Trust me, I had that "crap my pants" moment too, but after the first couple of bends, I was like, awe shucks, this is EASY!!! Just take your time and be careful with the temperature. The whole process is MUCH harder to explain than it is to do. Maybe I should make a HOW-TO video? That would be "the HEAT"!!! Maybe when I get done working 12's on Friday... Aaron Edited January 11, 2015 by usaeatt2 1 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks Steve. Amazing finds Aaron. I did read your original thread when you did yours in the jig. I just thought, oh yeah, stick it in hole and bend her over. She'll be right, mate! I was reasonably happy with my first attempt until Vern pointed out my flaws. I was then extremely happy with my second attempt, until you pointed out how good it actually could look. BTW, the aluminium didn't seem to mark the flat sections of track when I re did mine so all good there. I won't redo mine as I don't have any spare tracks and would prefer not to outlay more money to get it looking that little better, but I'll certainly try do some tests with my offcuts (if they're long enough) or keep this information for my next build. As always, it's great to see how far we can take the process to improve the end result for all builders. I hope this does get read by a lot of future builders... Vern - it will be interesting to see your processes to see if they are better, easier, or similar to Aaron's. Cheers Quote
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 11, 2015 Report Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) It's too bad I dont have my aluminum tubes yet! Edited January 11, 2015 by TK Bondservnt 2392 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Posted January 13, 2015 HEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPP, please. I'm up to putting a spring in the rear of the receiver tube. Because I've got a completely round and hollow chamber behind the bolt/cocking handle I want this to be fully operational. Going to the local industrial suppliers I've looked at all their manufactured springs with no luck. So next option is to make one. My first attempt was with 2.1mm thick coathanger wire. I made a pretty decent spring, but I could barely compress it at all - only managed to pull back the cocking handle by about 5-10mm! So next I bought some 1.65mm garden/fencing wire. Being easier to bend I have produced a beautiful looking spring but when I compress it, it only comes back to about 80-90% its original size. So now my cocking handle and bolt just flap around with no pressure against it. I noticed Tino used 1.8mm wire, probably based on this real sterling spring. Will that inbetween thickness make a difference to me? Or is it the type of metal I'm using? Can someone source me a real spring? Photo courtesy of http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/16705-the-best-sterling-templates-ever/page-8?hl=the%20best%20sterling%20templates%20ever Thanks for any insight anyone can give. Quote
usaeatt2 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Springs are made with "spring" steel. The metal is different than regular wire. It has a "memory". It would also be really difficult to bend into a spring shape because you have to bend it well past where you want it to end up. Gazmosis found a hardware store spring that's really close to the one you need. I think it was in his real folding stock build and may have included a part number. I'm pretty sure I found that spring the next time I was at the hardware store...if I can find it again, I can send it to you. Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for the reply Aaron. However it looks like as Steve was using a Doopy kit, he only got a 22mm diameter spring, and it is only about 90mm long, and has about 8 coils showing. I would like to try to get a spring somewhere between the 29mm (above pic) and 34mm (ID of my pipe) and it needs to be at least 150mm 'unsprung' length to put pressure on the rear cap to allow that to function. Picky, aren't I? I did notice Steve mention a "EZ Coil Radiator hose". Haven't heard of them, but I'll investigte the auto stores.... Quote
T-Jay[TK] Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 This is going to get tricky, as a real spring might put some serious pressure to your end cap mechanism and might blow this away. This could possibly get reduced by cutting off some coils at the end. But at least you still want the 11 coils visible through that slot, so you may have to work with a huge spacer in your end cap... Will keep my fingers crossed for your local search. Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Posted January 13, 2015 Yeah, a real spring (like from a real sterling) may have too much force for a resin cap, especially with my Green Stuff fixing up the notches, so do I consider a non functioning spring but looks the part, or functional but perhaps less coils showing, I don't know..... Quote
T-Jay[TK] Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Due to the fact that a specific spring diameter is required (inner AND outer), specific wire thickness, length and number of coils (and that pressure issue to the end cap), I left the idea of a real one and decided to go for the non functional (but real looking) spring. But mine was just for a TK display. You have to ask yourself how important the operational charging handle is for you... 1 Quote
usaeatt2 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 For display purposes, I'd go for "spring" accuracy and use the coiled wire. For trooping, I'd go for the functional bolt. I wouldn't sweat how many coils are visible if you can find a functional spring that fits. Yeah, some people will criticize it, but do they have a functional bolt in their pipe build? Probably NOT. In my opinion, a functional bolt is way cooler than a static display piece. It's more fun because there's gadgets to play with. We know about "11 coils visible" because the base gun is a Sterling, but even with blu-ray, I don't think you can count coils in ANY screenshot. So, is 11 coils screen accurate or is it just speculation? Maybe E-11's had some coils removed to make room for laser electronics? Hehe, just realized I'm going to run into the same problem with my build... 2 Quote
gazmosis[501st] Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 An easily compressible spring that is available is called EZ-coil. It is made for automotive radiator hoses. IT wraps around them allowing them to bend without kinking. IT has one little tab that needs to be removed but after that it works perfect.http://www.veyance.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=16154 1 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Posted January 13, 2015 My thoughts too Aaron. Gadgets are cool! No one at my troops or armor parties will ever count the coils.... Maybe one nice looking spring (that I have already made) for show and one functional one for my moving bolt for public gatherings. Thanks for the link Steve. They are the ones I googled. Haven't seen them here in Aus, but then again, I haven't looked. Will check them out, and even go back to my Industrial Supplies shop that had the wide range of springs. One of them might have to do. This will set me back a couple of weeks I reckon, but I've still got some small things to do. Oh, and paint of course. And Aaron, I'll be eagerly awaiting your solution when you get up to it. 1 Quote
Bulldog44[TK] Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Same as Steve mentioned, I bought one of those EZ -coils a year back and removed the metal tab part . I test fitted it in the Ikea pipe has the same inner diameter as a sterling receiver& it fit well. The coil action is rather soft so it won't pop the rear cap off or anything. There is enough length too to display 11 coils (, think it has about 13 coils after I cut off the metal tab that is welded to each end). There are some made to order spring places here in Japan. I can contact them for you with the size needed and see what the cost will be. Probably pricey but worth the try. I tried making a spring for my doopy build but it never looks quite right in the tube. I quickly notice how off the spacing is. Found a 22mm diameter spring but it jut comes up a bit short. Never an easy answer with this stuff. 2 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks for that Brian. I'll definitely check out those EZ coils. They sound good. I'm guessing that as a sterling has an ID of about 34, and the spring above is about 29, the 5mm difference (2.5 each side) doesn't really matter. The pressure and that extra bit at the end of the bolt keeps it in line? So the spring I find and use doesn't have to be 34OD. Nothing may ever be perfect, but we can only try to do the best and compromise where we have to. Edited January 14, 2015 by Sith Lord Quote
Dday[501st] Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I would also like to find a good spring I can include in my blaster kits, but it is always the same problem finding a good looking spring that doesn't cost a ton. Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Posted January 17, 2015 Ok, while having nightmares about my spring, I have done a few other little things, made some adjustments and hopefully improvements based on some of your recommendations. Added some wires to the power cylinders. They just seemed incomplete witout them (excuse the dust ) A couple of pics of paint on the front sight Fixed up the missing cavity on the undersaide of the magazine Filled everything with putty Sanded Originally tried to manually carve out the oval. Failed miserably, so I cut the green stuff back out, then cut up a Doopy Doos T-Track And popped that in. Put in the ittle circle engravings with a hole punch Hengstler - Before being told by Vern to reasearch more! Target: A bunch of green stuff Shaping..... Carving.... And pretty much done. A coat of paint did reveal some swirl marks caused by the dremel. I've since re-sanded these areas and it does look a whole lot better. Final pics to come on final painting of the blaster, but yes, I think this does look better. Thanks for pointng it out Vern Quote
Dday[501st] Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Ok, while having nightmares about my spring, I have done a few other little things, made some adjustments and hopefully improvements based on some of your recommendations. Added some wires to the power cylinders. They just seemed incomplete witout them (excuse the dust ) A couple of pics of paint on the front sight Fixed up the missing cavity on the undersaide of the magazine Filled everything with putty Sanded Originally tried to manually carve out the oval. Failed miserably, so I cut the green stuff back out, then cut up a Doopy Doos T-Track And popped that in. Put in the ittle circle engravings with a hole punch Hengstler - Before being told by Vern to reasearch more! Target: A bunch of green stuff Shaping..... Carving.... And pretty much done. A coat of paint did reveal some swirl marks caused by the dremel. I've since re-sanded these areas and it does look a whole lot better. Final pics to come on final painting of the blaster, but yes, I think this does look better. Thanks for pointng it out Vern Awesome work there! I'm in the middle of a creating a new mold for the hengstler as well. It was these inaccuracies that you have put back into the model that led me to do this. Not much help to you unfortunately but you're going well above and beyond, and I salute you! 1 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Posted January 17, 2015 Thank you Derrek! I do appreciate the feedback. Perhaps on your re-mold list, do we need the writing on the bottom of the magazine "Blastec Imperial Issue 1977 E-11". I don't think it looked all that flash, so have puttied over it. On the top side there was also the imperial cog in a raised mold. This obviously had to be sanded off to fit the cylinders so would be considered a waste of time being there. And I and others salute you for binging this kit up to new unprecedented levels! Quote
usaeatt2 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Good stuff here!!! I like the front sight, and especially the knurling, but it might look even better if you knocked it down just a little with some fine sandpaper. With the work you did on your front sight block and pin, it'll be difficult to tell this from the real thing! Great detail work on the mag well, counter and cylinders! It always amazes me when someone carves out all the little details with such precision! 1 Quote
T-Jay[TK] Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Fully agree to what Derrek and Aaron said. Awesome work, Ian! Was suprised about the look of that pattern on the front sight shield, but I am sure it will reduce when applying more layers of paint... Incredible work on the counter as well. Got some green stuff left over? And a key file? Cause I just noticed I should have posted these earlier... Sorry, man. Feeling really bad for posting this so late 1 Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Posted January 18, 2015 Not sure about the use of the word 'precision' Aaron, but thank you. Thanks Tino, it will certainly tone down a bit. That is literally one light coat of paint from an airbrush, so very thin. I'll have a serious think about the the counter. I see the variation now, and in another of Snaggletooths for sale items as well. I'm not sure a bit of green stuff will have any strength hanging on by 3x2mm of self sticking. It may be a compromise of form over function. It's on the 'consider' list, but thank you for highlighting it now. Cheers Quote
usaeatt2 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 How about calling in a favor from Dennis? I see he's including that entire piece with run #3 of the conversion kits. You gave him a lot of advertisement...I didn't even know his kits existed until your posts. Wouldn't hurt to ask? Then you can hack of the resin and replace it with a real part...and Dennis gets more advertisement in a popular thread. Win-win! 1 Quote
TK bondservnt[501st] Posted January 19, 2015 Report Posted January 19, 2015 I actually have those parts too! 19 shipped usa.(3 left!) Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Posted January 19, 2015 Favor sounds better . I suppose he'll only say no.... Quote
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