Interview with REAL Stormtrooper

[TK-4510[501st]]

Interview with Lightning Bear

 

 

 

 

As fans of the Star Wars Saga, many of us grew up with the films as an integral part of our childhood. They have touched us in ways important enough that we have all sought out like-minded fans on the internet in forums such as ours. Star Wars, more than almost any other film series, has a fan base ravenous for as much information as can possibly be obtained. Perhaps because of this, an increasing amount of attention has been cast towards the less heralded but equally important supporting cast and film crew members. One such person is Lightning Bear, who performed stunt work on all three original films of the saga, and portrayed Stormtroopers and Biker Scouts. We here at The Bothan Spy have recently had the fantastic opportunity to sit down and conduct an interview with Lightning Bear, whose body of work extends well past the Star Wars films in his 40 years in the business. What quickly became apparent was that this is a person who loves his work, and maintains a very humble approach to the many fans he encounters.

 

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The Bothan Spy: Lightning Bear, thank you very much for this opportunity. It is a great honor to have you with us.

 

Lightning Bear:First let me say that I am honored that everyone feels I am worthy to be interviewed. I have been very lucky in my career, as you probably know it can be difficult to live and survive in this Industry. Most of it is being in the right place at the right time. I had help in the beginning getting started, but more of that in your questions. Thanks to you and the others for this honor and I hope all will find interesting my life in films.

 

TBS: First of all, I'd like to ask how you came to use the name Pushican. Is there a significance to the name, and perhaps you could explain a little about the origins and history of it?

 

LB: I am from the Comanche people and Pushican comes from my language which means Lightning Bear. Within the industry, most people just call me Bear. I am, what is known in English, as a Medicineman. Within the culture we do not have a name for this. We are the Spiritual, Ceremonial Leaders and teachers within the culture of the Native Americans. Though we have many tasks and responsibilities within the culture, it does not make us special. We are like everyone else. We are chosen by Spirit to follow these ways, which are not always easy. The Native American Culture dates back for over 60,000 years on what we call Turtle Island or what is known today as North America. To go in more detail about the culture would be several pages by itself. As a side note, there are few Native Americans within the film Industry. The most notable Indian Actors over the years, until Dances with Wolves came out, was Iron Eyes Cody (who did a lot of the Keep American Beautiful commercials), Jay Silver Heels (who played Tonto on the Lone Ranger series and who started the first Indian Stunt School), Chief Dan George (who appeared in many films) and Will Sampson (appeared in Poltergeist and One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest) and all I had the privilege of knowing and working with.

 

 

TBS: I understand you did your first stunt work on the TV show The Virginian, and debuted on film with Cat Ballou, both in 1965. How did you break into the stunt business, land your first job, and can you describe your experience on your first jobs?

 

LB: As I said before I have been very lucky. I had some help when I first started after I came to Hollywood. To make a very long story short, when I first came to Hollywood, it was not to break into the film industry. It was actually to go to UCLA to further my education.

 

I got a job working at the Playboy club parking cars. At this time the club was on Sunset Blvd., in Hollywood. However, it was also at the same time the big demonstrations were going on near another club called Pandora's Box. I was living in Studio City at the time and since I did not have a car I had to hitchhike. It was difficult to get a ride at this time from Hollywood to Studio City during the demonstrations. I quit the Playboy club and got a job at a gas station in Studio City.

 

One night just before I was to get off, a man came into the station whose car had broken down. So I went to get him started as his battery was dead. It worked out that he followed me back to the station to charge it. He and his friend had been out partying. Since it was going to take a while for the charge, his friend asked if I could give him a ride home. Since I was due to get off, I did. This turned out to be "Spanky" Mc Farland from the Little Rascals series. He was producing and directing at Universal Studio at the time. His friend who owned the car was a casting director at Universal. During this time it was very difficult to get into the SAG (Screen Actors Guild), which you needed to belong to, to work in the industry. Actually my first work in the Industry was in Commercials and travel logs. I had worked for a production company that had made travels logs for the Mexican Government and Commercials for Chevrolet and Dodge cars and trucks. Spanky and his friend, use my experience to get me started though what was known as Central Casting. Then into SAG.

 

Spanky wanted me to become an Actor, but as I said, I was actually there to go to school. So he suggested going into stunts (who worked more than actors did at the time). He arranged for me to go on The Virginian where I met Richard Lee Shane who was the Stunt Coordinator and had a part playing one of the Ranch hands. He trained me to do Stunts. At that time there were no schools for Stunt People, so it was on the job training. It was on this series that I met Hal Needham who started Stunts Unlimited, the first Stunt Association in Hollywood. Doing the work was not easy and when you first start, you take your bumps and bruises like everyone else. I was fortunate that I had a gymnastic background from High School and was in good shape at the time. The Stunt Coordinator is the one who breaks down the script for the stunts that are needed. Then you trained or learned to do what is required. I was lucky again as I also had a background with horses and knew how to ride.

 

TBS: How has stunt work changed from your beginnings over 40 years ago to today?

 

LB: Stunt work has changed a lot over the years, especially in the equipment we use and the safety protection. When I first started, it was basically knee and elbow pads we had. Doing falls we used cardboard boxes and mattresses, now we have Airbags and body armor to name only two of the advances. 80% of the time our work is to make sure that we do the stunts in as safe a way as possible. This was true then and still true today. In those days, there were not as many Stunt People as there are now, so a lot of the time you went from film to film or series to series. As an example, all the people who worked on the original Poseidon Adventure went to work on Towering Inferno right after. It was possible to work on several films in a week, if you did not have a bit role in the film. This was sometimes necessary to have a part to be able for a certain stunt to happen or if you were doubling for someone.

 

 

 

TBS: As Star Wars fans, we know those films quite well. I would like to ask some questions about the Star Wars experience.

 

You played roles in all three original Star Wars films. We know you played the Biker Scout that tried to escape Princess Leia, and after she shot your speeder bike, it exploded, propelling you into the air. How difficult is it to shoot a stunt like that wearing a full costume with mask, as opposed to a more typical stunt of a similar nature?

 

LB: As anyone in the film will tell you, it was not easy working in the costumes. They were not very easy to move in and it was also difficult to see, so it took a longer time than usual to set it up and get a decent take for the film. How many times we do something depends mainly on the director. It took longer for these as we also had to hide our protective gear as well. In setting up a stunt, it is a collective effort between the stunt person, the stunt coordinator, the director and DOP.

 

TBS: That Biker Scout has one line of dialogue, in response to his partner telling him to return to base. That line was simply "Yes sir." Was that your voice we hear, or was a voiceover done by a different actor?

 

LB: That was a voice over, but I had one line in ANH, when C3PO and R2D2 come out of the Control Room.

 

TBS: Would you happen to recall that line, for the benefit of everyone reading this?

 

LB: The line was only one word "Alright" so it was just small.

 

 

TBS: Speaking of the other stuntmen during filming, what are your memories of the legendary late stuntman Peter Diamond, and how much of a role did he play in working with you?

 

LB: Peter was one of the greats in the Stunt Industry. As the Stunt Coordinator on the first two films and Stunt Arranger on Return of the Jedi, he was involved in all aspects of the stunts. As an outsider so to speak, it was a great honor to be able to work with him. He was a true professional in every sense of the word and will always be missed within the Industry.

 

 

TBS:

 

On to your other film experiences. Star Wars was certainly not the only major film you worked on. Among many others, you did stunt work for King Kong (1976), Diamonds Are Forever, The Towering Inferno, and The Poseidon Adventure. With this, you have worked with some huge Hollywood stars - Harrison Ford, Sean Connery, Steve McQueen, Gene Hackman, Paul Newman, Richard Harris, etc. Can you tell us about any of your experiences with these stars?

 

LB: First let me say that when working on films, you do not always come in direct contact with the stars. The exceptions are when you have a direct scene connection with them. This is mainly due to the fact you will have more than one unit shooting at the same time. First Unit is where mostly the stars work, while 2nd Unit is where the action is mostly shot. An example of this was on Diamonds when I got kicked by Sean Connery off the 3 wheel bike, which was a close-up shot. This was done on 1st unit. Where you see car chases and especially where the Police Cars are wrecked was done on 2nd. Sean Connery is a very nice man, very friendly and easy to work with. You have to know that 99% of the Stars are nice when with people in the Industry. There are exceptions as there are in any business. Most of the Stars have two personalities. One when they are with people in the Industry and one when they are in public. Their public one is not always nice, but this is often a protective situation as they do not always know who they are talking to. Many reporters pose as fans to ask questions. So, on the set you are all there to make the production which is a joint effort by all who are working, both cast and crew. So it is more relaxed and more informal. My favorite actor to work with was Richard Harris, who I did several films with. Mainly the Man Called Horse trilogy, but also on the film Hawaii. It was also because of Richard I came to Star Wars. Steve Mc Queen was one of the nicest people in Hollywood. He was also an avid motorcycle rider and racer. Up until the time he died, we would see each other at races mainly at the Baja run and the cross country race in Vegas.

 

TBS: Have you ever had the opportunity to work as a stunt double?

 

LB: Working as a double usually depends on how much you look like the person you double for. I have doubled Tom Selleck, Dennis Weaver, Max von Sydow and Rosemary Murphy to name a few. With Rosemary, it was on a film called Dust which I was the Stunt Coordinator for the German Unit. The Director thought because of my facial features and the fact I am skinny I should double for Rosemary, since we could not find a woman here. In the early days we did not have very many women in the Industry, so there were often times we also doubled for women.

 

TBS: Going back a couple of questions, you made a reference to a legendary actor, who unfortunately is no longer with us. In 2002, we saw the untimely passing of Richard Harris, a veteran of film work that many younger people will recognize as Professor Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies. You were given the honorable chance to speak at his funeral. Can you describe your relationship with Mr. Harris, describe how you came to speak at his funeral, and share any thoughts or memories you have of this fantastic actor?

 

LB:

 

As I said before, Richard Harris was a very nice man. He also had a deep interest in/for the Indian Culture. I came to the film A Man Called Horse because of Iron Eyes Cody, who had been hired to play a Medicineman. He told me that they had planned to show a ceremony which is not common to all Indian Cultures. He asked me because it is a ceremony that my people practice. He told me that the Producers and Richard wanted it as accurate as possible. So I agreed to do the film. I had just come back from Viet Nam and so this was a chance for me to get reconnected to my culture. During the filming I got to know Richard and ended up doing all 3 films. It was during a pre-production meeting for one of the films that I had to come to England, which started me off in Star Wars. Richard Harris had a lot of respect from the Indian people because of these films, mainly because he told things from our side.

 

I had heard that he was going to do the Potter films and I had contacted his agent since it been a long time since I had seen him. I was going to go to meet with him in England when he got sick and finally died. His agent was kind enough to pass my greeting on to him before he died. It was his son Jared who called and asked me to speak at the Memorial Tribute that he and his brothers were going to do. For me this was a great honor and one of the highlights of my life both personally and professionally, to be able to speak and pay tribute to a man I have long admired. This was also a very humbling experience, in that they felt I was worthy enough to stand alongside many famous and more eloquent people than myself. Some of the other speakers were Peter O'Toole, Gabriel Byrne and Liam Neeson.

 

My favorite story concerning Richard happened on the set of A Man Called Horse. I had always had a dream of bringing an Indian Pony to England and finding an English Fox Hunt, then putting on my traditional clothes and showing them how to ride properly. I figured that if anyone could help me with this it would be Richard Harris. So I told him about it. He told me that he would like to help me, but he had enough trouble with the English as it was.

 

 

TBS: Your first appearance as an extra, as I understand it, was in 1974's The Day the Earth Moved. Can you tell us about any cameo appearances you have made since then, and explain the difference between being an extra and having an actual cameo?

 

LB: There is a difference between doing a cameo (which is playing yourself) and working as an atmosphere player. These are basically working as glorified extras. This means a difference between someone in SAG or in the Extras Guild. Films where I have played myself is A Man called Horse and in Billy Jack.

 

TBS: After you completed stunt work on Black Rain in 1989, you seemed to disappear from the film industry until the German TV series Helicops in 1998. I understand you were teaching Indian culture and religion overseas during this 10 year period. Can you elaborate a little on this change in career moves, and perhaps share some stories about the experience?

 

LB: While I was in Japan working on Black Rain I was asked if I would be interested in doing some classes on the Indian Culture. Since my first responsibility is to my culture, I accepted. I thought it would be only for a short time. I was there for 3 years. From there I went to Australia and then to Europe. Among the Indian Cultures, we have a series of prophesies which tell of events that will happen in the future. One of these spoke about the coming of the Europeans to North America. Within this it told that they would suppress our culture and that the Indian would lie dormant for a hundred years. It also said that the European would come back to us to teach them after this time as they had almost killed the Earth Mother. This hundred year period was over in 1980. Since that time to the present, many Indian teachers travel the world to teach at the invitation of other people or groups. To be truthful, I was surprised originally at the amount of interest there was and is. Like I said before, it is always at the invitation of others. The Indian people have never had missionaries nor have we gone looking for people to follow our ways. It is by invitation only that we can go and teach. So when I came here with my ex-wife there were very few of the Indian teachers coming to Europe. After a while that changed and I was able to have the time for film work which I love.

 

TBS: What prompted your return to film work in 1998 with Helicops, and can you describe your role on that show?

 

LB: The way I got back into it was as a surprise that some of my friends here gave as a birthday present. Here in Germany they have Warner Brothers Movie World. Since I still talked when I was teaching about my film work, they thought I would enjoy going there. During the time I went to see one of the Stunt Shows and met one of the stunt people. We became friends and started working together. He was

 

the Stunt Coordinator on Helicops. In one episode they needed to drop a person over the side of a building to make it look like he was free falling. This takes a special piece of equipment called a descender. Since I was experienced in using this he hired me for the show. The rest as they say is history. I also worked on the show as a special effect supervisor.

 

In the film industry, the more you know the more you work. I have always liked working on both sides of the camera. So, I would learn all I could while waiting to do what I had to do on the sets. Working as a director you also need to understand all the departments and what they do.

 

TBS: You will be making your directorial debut in the film Bad Blood. Can you describe your experience as a director, explain the transition from stunt work to directing, and perhaps give us a little summary of what Bad Blood is going to be about?

 

LB: Directing is more intense as you are responsible for everything on the production. It starts like all others, in receiving the script. Once you decide it is a project you wish to do you start breaking it down. The breakdown process is complicated so I will not go into everything here. For me, the main process is to start getting a feel for the story, how it flows (timing), atmosphere of the storyline and then obtaining ideas of how you wish to shoot. I like storyboarding a script to see the different aspects of the scenes. You can then work with them and lay it out in sequence by sequence, as to lightning, camera angles etc... The director is like the captain of the ship. You need to be open to your crew for ideas, but in the end the decision is yours. As I said before, making film is a collective effort. Each department, each person is important to the production. The whole process can at times be overwhelming.

 

The transition is not that big a jump really. As a Stunt Coordinator, you are involved in the shooting process of a particular sequence. On a lot of films, the Stunt Coordinator is also the 2nd Unit Director. Bad Blood came to me at first for me being the Stunt Coordinator on the film. The director of the film was new to the Industry and had only a limited idea on directing. After many consultations about the script he asked me to co-direct with him. So actually I am a co-director on the project.

 

It is 2 stories fitted together around a young girl. She is wild, free and rebellious and gets herself into a situation along the lines of Fatal Attraction. The other part of the story is about a rock band from the 60's that split-up and is trying to get back together after many years. They all come together in a violent conclusion. The film is in post production. When it will be out I am not sure right now.

 

TBS: I also understand you will be making a cameo in this film. Can you describe where this cameo occurs, so we know what to look for?

LB: There is a scene where the girl is leaving her boyfriend after a wild night in a hotel. She asks a man in the parking lot for a ride to go home. I am the person who takes her.

 

TBS: I would now like to switch gears again and ask you a bit about the fan experience.

This interview is a result of you joining our Star Wars fan site, www.thebothanspy.com. Can you explain how you found our community, and what prompted you to become a contributing member?

 

LB: I am always looking for new conventions in places I have not been. It was while I was surfing that I found your site. As I began to read though it, I was impressed by what I read. It was for this reason I decided to join. As I said, I have been very lucky and in that having been able to work with some very big stars from the old school of acting and relating to the public as we say. It is from this group that and the way they interacted with the fans that I became the way I am. This is remembering that it is the fans that make it possible to work and to obtain the status we have. It, again, does not matter where you fit into a production. It is still the fans that keep us going. For me it is always a pleasure to meet and talk with everyone. To get their reaction to our work and at times their ideas on how we did certain things in the film. Mostly though, it is the ability to say thank you for their support. To put it very bluntly, if it were not for you all, we would not be doing the conventions and soon to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Star Wars and I would not be doing this interview.

 

 

TBS:

 

How do you feel about the explosion of fan interest in actors and performers such as yourself in recent years, as it appears the focus is beginning to shift from just the main billing and expanding to everyone that contributes to a film?

 

LB: It is important that everyone is included. It takes each department, each person to be able to make a film. Each job is as important as the other. By expanding the conventions beyond the stars and the top people, the fans get to understand better everything it took to do a sequence. How the lighting was done, or the different props that were used, or whether something was live or CG. Another example is, I have a blood brother in England that is currently a top Prop master. During Star Wars he was one of the model makers. It is his responsibility for the cockpits of the X-wing Fighter and part of the Millennium Falcon. So he can tell everyone how they were built and the things used etc...

 

TBS: When did you begin attending fan conventions, and can you expand on which ones you have done and how often you make appearances? Have there been any US appearances, and are there plans for any in the future?

 

LB: I started doing convention in 2003. Below is a list of the ones I have attended. It may sound strange to everyone, but as of yet I have never done a convention in the U.S., especially coming from Texas. I hope to be able to do some there soon. For this year there are a few coming up in England as well as here in Germany.