New EIB requirement is no longer an EIB requirement.

[gazmosis[501st]]

http://www.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TK_anh_stunt

OK Kids!!!

On September 1st, the new EIB requirement of the squared notch at the bottom of the kidney will go into effect. Please take note of the measurements for this notch and its location.(roughly 22 MM in from the seam and 22 MM tall)  See the CRL if there is any question regarding this or contact FISD staff.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

for the armors that don't have this feature already such as ATA and AP., how is this to be accomplished?

by making it simply by cutting it out?  or adding a shim?

 

you can't just hack off the kidney shorter... as the butt plate won't line up correctly.

 

 I personally think this should be a centurion requirement, but not an EIB requirement.

adding this mod to armors that don't have it will make the butt plate alignment tricky

you'll have to hack off this on the entire side of the butt plate, which won't work.

 

The belt actually COVERS this area, so it's not usually seen anyway?

 

it's one thing to add stuff like this to centurion on armors that have the design,

but adding this when the armors are not made this way in the first place is going to ruin

the look on quite a few armors.

 

will we have to break out the heating iron and reshape the entire butt plate to match this?

 

 

this is not going to work right when doing the sides of the butt plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thread joke of the day!

 

EIB updates next.

thigh garters, and glued thigh backs.

hand painted boots only.

hdpe chipper lids only.

no frown mesh

thin acetate lenses with wrinkles.

frayed elastic on chinstrap.

glue on thigh garters only. no snaps

shins must have hooks only.

brackets and bars only

split rivets with washers, hammred, paint must be chipped

duct tape on biceps, and belts

missing holsters

extra drop box on one side ESB EIB stunt variation 2

3 hole tooth esb hero lid, adding hero to ESB.

ROTJ esb lid adding esb stunt version 2

 

remember EIB is easy!  (it's not prop replication, but we soon will have it that way!)

Edited August 22, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[mikedwelle94[TK]]

That does seem like it would be bit of a hassle for some people to try and pull off. Why even bother if that area is covered up? I was never planning on going EIB anyway, but I can see this being a potential turn-off for those who otherwise would have EIB-ready armors. You guys wanted 700 (?) EIB troopers by the end of the year, right? I don't see that happening -- not with stuff like this popping up.

 

"Don't forget to remove your belt so we can check to see if you cut your notch out."

*facepalm* 

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

mike is saying it quite well.

[Locitus[Admin]]

EIB already requires AP armour to cut the butt from the kidney. I expect you to deal to with this new change in the same way. Yes it is new. Yes it will be some hassles in the beginning. Yes you can do it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Locitus[Admin]]

Armour makers are more than welcome to adapt their moulds to this new level of accuracy.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Snaps[TK]]

If you aren't going for EIB then what's the problem?

[Locitus[Admin]]

It should also be noted that when I spoke to the GML about the measurements I did not have accurate armour on hand so the measurements are subject to change. What is certain however is that if anything, they will be larger that specified at the moment. So anyone who has cut already need only to cut some more.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Clamps[TK]]

will this notch be a requirement on both sides?

[Locitus[Admin]]

It is present on both sides. So naturally yes.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Daetrin[Admin]]

For the record, I do not believe this should be part of EI.  We don't make any requirements to non-cosmetic details, I don't see why this is different.  It serves no purpose.  Why not keep it with Centurion?

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Vern has lots of good points, many of which I discussed with Mathias when the topic first arose a few weeks back. Feedback here from someone who did up cutting the notches out in my MTK armor order to comply with these new requirements.

 

1. It was easy to do, simply cutting a 15x10 section put

2. The butt doesn't line up anymore

3. It's not visible with the belt on, so

A- what was the point doing it , and/or

B- now that it's done it doesn't matter cause you can't see it

4. Why make it a rule, when in 95% of amrors won't be visible, just as we don't make the strapping a requirement as it's not visible.

 

So, two conclusions from someone who has done it with armor that wasn't built for it, see "A" and "B" above.

 

Re, Mathias' comment about the size, yes 15x 10 looks very small on the armor comparing it to photos, so it should be a lot bigger I think.

 

Vern has some funny points about new CRL's, but in all seriousness, perhaps we should look at them again.

 

Base - somewhere in between current base and EIB

EIB - current centurion

Centurion - screen accurate. Pick an exact trooper and put the cracks in, duct tape, etc.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sith Lord

[Darth Aloha[Admin]]

While I admit it is a minor change, I do not agree with it. It goes against the spirit of the EIB program that is meant to spell out easy ways to look great. If this TM and RS biased requirement had to be added, it should have been in level 3. 

 

However I think there are more important things to fight about amongst ourselves than a notch in kidney plate. (and if we are going to fight about it it should be in the detachment only section of the forum)

 

On the subject of changing CRLs in general. We did a lot of work last year beefing up all three levels. Some EIB requirements were moved to the base, some centurion requirements moved to EIB and a few centurion were added. Changing them more, in even minor or drastic ways, would only serve to dilute the impact of the existing standards and probably continue to confuse the (non FISD) Legion in general. I suggest waiting until mid to late 2015 before batting CRL change ideas around and publicly voting on them. 

 

Also please bear in mind that neither EIB or Centurion were ever meant for prop replication. 

 

-Eric

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

Finally there is some SENSE rising up in this detachment.

 

I make motion that this be moved to a centurion MAY HAVE.

 

The attempt to make EIB replicate an unseen element and asking people to ruin the alignment on armor,

or asking ATA, MTK, AP, TE2, TE to "change their molds"

 

is simply wrong.

 

The AP kit has been cast from an original LFL sculpt and as such it deserves it's place in armor history un-altered.

it's not RS, and that's why I like it!  I like all armors.

 

paul hoffer should be honored at the very least here, we've been around lomg enough to know this EIB factor

is pointless, and serves no purpose, because it's under the belt.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

While I admit it is a minor change, I do not agree with it. It goes against the spirit of the EIB program that is meant to spell out easy ways to look great. If this TM and RS biased requirement had to be added, it should have been in level 3. 

 

However I think there are more important things to fight about amongst ourselves than a notch in kidney plate. (and if we are going to fight about it it should be in the detachment only section of the forum)

 

On the subject of changing CRLs in general. We did a lot of work last year beefing up all three levels. Some EIB requirements were moved to the base, some centurion requirements moved to EIB and a few centurion were added. Changing them more, in even minor or drastic ways, would only serve to dilute the impact of the existing standards and probably continue to confuse the (non FISD) Legion in general. I suggest waiting until mid to late 2015 before batting CRL change ideas around and publicly voting on them. 

 

Also please bear in mind that neither EIB or Centurion were ever meant for prop replication. 

 

-Eric

TRUTH

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

Vern has lots of good points, many of which I discussed with Mathias when the topic first arose a few weeks back. Feedback here from someone who did up cutting the notches out in my MTK armor order to comply with these new requirements.

 

1. It was easy to do, simply cutting a 15x10 section put

2. The butt doesn't line up anymore

3. It's not visible with the belt on, so

A- what was the point doing it , and/or

B- now that it's done it doesn't matter cause you can't see it

4. Why make it a rule, when in 95% of amrors won't be visible, just as we don't make the strapping a requirement as it's not visible.

 

So, two conclusions from someone who has done it with armor that wasn't built for it, see "A" and "B" above.

 

Re, Mathias' comment about the size, yes 15x 10 looks very small on the armor comparing it to photos, so it should be a lot bigger I think.

 

Vern has some funny points about new CRL's, but in all seriousness, perhaps we should look at them again.

 

Base - somewhere in between current base and EIB

EIB - current centurion

Centurion - screen accurate. Pick an exact trooper and put the cracks in, duct tape, etc.

TRUTH

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

For the record, I do not believe this should be part of EI.  We don't make any requirements to non-cosmetic details, I don't see why this is different.  It serves no purpose.  Why not keep it with Centurion?

TRUTH, from our freakin FOUNDER!

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

It should also be noted that when I spoke to the GML about the measurements I did not have accurate armour on hand so the measurements are subject to change. What is certain however is that if anything, they will be larger that specified at the moment. So anyone who has cut already need only to cut some more.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

ah. so we make it an EIB requirement without knowing the exact dimensions?  why?

[Locitus[Admin]]

To prepare you guys. And the measurements aren't the important bit. It's the fact that you have it at all.

 

People used to fight about the belt being canvas or leather. Really hard. So I expect no less of you now. But it will work out in the end.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

EIB already requires AP armour to cut the butt from the kidney. I expect you to deal to with this new change in the same way. Yes it is new. Yes it will be some hassles in the beginning. Yes you can do it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I think you make a great point here. and I see your direction. my only concern is that the details you mention don't compare with each other

on a logical stance.  while on the one hand, it's about cutting armor, and on the other it's about cutting on the proper lines.

 

I've seen AP armor come off the buck untrimmed, and it looks like GF attempted to remove the side AB detail, and they seem to have

followed a more square line, which is why AP armor is smaller by this amount in the first place.

 

The kidney and butt plates are quite large and tall, so I'm sure that this area must not have been easy for GF to form on, and he

probably removed it during a 'cleanup' pass on the original molds.

 

I'm sure that if the detail was actually seen on the outside of the armor that would justify changing the design.

but it's doubtful that AP will change an element this minor.

(it sure would help to add this back on, but it's just not gonna happen.)

 

remember, stormtrooper molds of the AP kind are made from aluminum and are not just cheap to change.

plus, he likes the armor the way it is, and if he wanted to change it, he would have done

so, 10 years ago.

Edited August 23, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

just because you see it as a "fight" does not make it a fight.

 

there was an orange that was born thinking it was an apple.

the apples just laughed and made orange juice.

 

they used to call it "making a mountain out of an anthill."

comparing this to leather belts, or cutting the armor a certain way, or

"the fx helmet" only shows the inaccurate attempt to

make cutting the notch

IMPORTANT.

 

it's not.  because you can not see it from the outside of properly worn armor.

 

thread joke

 

one cosplay to the other

"was that trooper wearing CA boots?"

 

kid wearing vynal wookie suit

"yeah, those boots are wrong, he's supposed to be wearing elvis boots"

points to elvistrooper as an example...

 

 

 

on a side note

 

I think there should be a legion wide vote put out for changes to be made.

running short term polls with votes less than 200 strong, don't properly

represent the membership.

 

closed door policy by an elite group only shows a lack of proper management.

Edited August 23, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[gazmosis[501st]]

These little details are what makes a good set of armor great. There are a lot of things that are already required that we don't see; drop box backs, bottom left side rivet, white strap under shoulder bridges.....but they are still required. This will be no different and will be a FAR easier mod than fixing a bad hole with ABS paste. But people still get it done.

I don't have the time to copy everyone's quotes, but aside from TM and RS ( even RS can be improved) all armors sold here can be improved to be more accurate. God forbid someone should make a change in their armor molds to be more accurate or make assembly easier.

Too much emotion here for something this trivial. MOVE ALONG!

[Daetrin[Admin]]

To prepare you guys. And the measurements aren't the important bit. It's the fact that you have it at all.

 

People used to fight about the belt being canvas or leather. Really hard. So I expect no less of you now. But it will work out in the end.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Not the same. The belts were always canvas in the movies, people just used plastic as it was convenient. You can clearly see this detail in the movies. This is a non visible detail.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

These little details are what makes a good set of armor great. There are a lot of things that are already required that we don't see; drop box backs, bottom left side rivet, white strap under shoulder bridges.....but they are still required. This will be no different and will be a FAR easier mod than fixing a bad hole with ABS paste. But people still get it done.

I don't have the time to copy everyone's quotes, but aside from TM and RS ( even RS can be improved) all armors sold here can be improved to be more accurate. God forbid someone should make a change in their armor molds to be more accurate or make assembly easier.

Too much emotion here for something this trivial. MOVE ALONG!

I'll still disagree. The point if EI was to be a step above base, especially when base was out of the box FX, and the point was to resolve the most egregious visible bits, such as ab plate buttons, etc. Centurion is for pimping out a kit as far as Legion standard allows. This should really start as a Centurion nice to have (as it's not visible), and if people are finding it way too easy to do, one could always make it mandatory for Centurion. Going to EI makes no sense.

 

It's like the bracket assembly method. Should never be part of Centurion, as the goal of the legion is not to replicate props, it's to replicate what is seen on screen. You can always make such things optional for now and see how it plays out on Centurion.

 

But when we have such a low adoption of EI already, it seems at odds to the point of the program to spend time adding yet more requirements to it rather than trying to get more people to hit the existing bar...

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

I kind of find it odd too that this detail is added right from beginning to the EIB level and not to Centurion.

 

I also like to point out that making this noth on, for example AP kydney plates, won't make it more accurate as it will then create a shift with the cod piece which would be inaccurate. Some kydney plates are just too short in height for this feature to be added.

It just solving a problem by adding one another...