EIB/Centurion Standards

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Are they slipping? There was a major overhaul 6 months or so ago and some silent changes since (no scuffing on boots, TD clips don't need to be 3mm, etc), but are the ones that are there being followed and upheld?

 

I'm building my armor at the moment so am constantly watching build threads and EIB/Centurion threads and am seeing more and more sets of armor 'make the grade' where they just don't seem to. No names or references to when, but some examples:

 

- wrong scope on E-11

- thigh pack fixed half way up the thigh (slight exageration)

- big gaps in ab/kidney joins

- ab buttons no where near 11mm ( different buttons way different sizes on same armor)

- button plate not but correctly

- 'unusual' (to be nice) painting on helmet

- uneven TD clips

 

So, have the standards slipped? Are we being more flexible to increase the numbers? Do we need to tighten the approval process? Do we need to slacken off the written CRL's? I realise that some elements of approval are subject to opinion and this can be flexible, but the black and white requirements, surely are black and white.

 

I remember reading a while ago that someone suggested Basic Approval should be tightened and not EIB/Centurion. Is this what has happened, we've focused elsewhere?

[Locitus[Admin]]

The CRL's are what they are. But only you as a member can really make the difference. Those that really want to make it accurate, they do it without having CRL's to rely on.

 

In my experience, these things come and go in waves. In other 6 months there might be a flood of really accurate troopers signing up.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

The CRL's are what they are. But only you as a member can really make the difference. Those that really want to make it accurate, they do it without having CRL's to rely on.

 

In my experience, these things come and go in waves. In other 6 months there might be a flood of really accurate troopers signing up.

 

Not sure I understand what you mean Mathias. I understand anyone can build armor to whatever standards they want (which is fine - I had FX armor on a manequin for 10 years before upgrading), but once they start applying for EIB or higher is it not up to us to enforce the CRL's, which as you say "are what they are". The waves may come and go, but CRL's don't therefore approvals for EIB/Centurion shouldn't either.

[gazmosis[501st]]

What we have to remember here is that we are a costuming group not necessarily responsible for costume replication. I can and do totally respect the "purists" who want to take their armor down to most accurate paint chip as it appeared on screen. Accuracy on that level makes the entire Legion look better. However, we don't want to start walking the line of being called "armor nazis". There will always be a certain level of give and take when it comes to the points not necessarily stated on the CRL's when it comes to EIB. Centurion gets honed down to much closer standards. I can totally see your point, Ian, but I wouldn't worry too much that things are going to start straying too far off track. It is great to see the super accurate and I admire those who's efforts (and sometimes good fortune) allow them to wear armors like RS and TM. We also want to keep this a fun and interesting hobby. 

[Tehcaveman]

Are they slipping? There was a major overhaul 6 months or so ago and some silent changes since (no scuffing on boots, TD clips don't need to be 3mm, etc), but are the ones that are there being followed and upheld?

 

I'm building my armor at the moment so am constantly watching build threads and EIB/Centurion threads and am seeing more and more sets of armor 'make the grade' where they just don't seem to. No names or references to when, but some examples:

 

- wrong scope on E-11

- thigh pack fixed half way up the thigh (slight exageration)

- big gaps in ab/kidney joins

- ab buttons no where near 11mm ( different buttons way different sizes on same armor)

- button plate not but correctly

- 'unusual' (to be nice) painting on helmet

- uneven TD clips

 

So, have the standards slipped? Are we being more flexible to increase the numbers? Do we need to tighten the approval process? Do we need to slacken off the written CRL's? I realise that some elements of approval are subject to opinion and this can be flexible, but the black and white requirements, surely are black and white.

 

I remember reading a while ago that someone suggested Basic Approval should be tightened and not EIB/Centurion. Is this what has happened, we've focused elsewhere?

 

While you hit on some good points and I have too have seen some of these posts one can't merely judge someone or something if one doesn't have it.. By no means is this an "Attack" or "Slap in the face" but you should focus more on your build and your standards rather than the standards of others.. EIB and centurion aren't the end all be all.. There are troopers with amazing armor that don't care or have the time to make the few changes here and there to be EIB or centurion approved.. Everyone builds their armor and goes at their own pace.. My first kit was FX then was modded to meet EIB standards using an ATA bucket.. But I wasn't happy with this sold off some of my shoe collection and bought TM.. To me it's the most amazing and incredibly accurate armor out there.. When I troop with my squad I stand out and shine not only because of the amazing armor but the fit/finish and accuracy.. When your out trooping fans can give 2 shuckss about EIB or centurion they have no idea what is stunt and hero all they see is the iconic silhouette and smile and wave.. To me these awards are more of a pride and honor to receive... To know that you built the best armor possible to specs needed to be as accurate as possible.. Some of the points you mentioned I saw on fellow troopers that don't fit the normal sizing parameters but they shouldn't be penalized for that not treated diff.. I personally lost 60lbs and 4 pants sizes to be able to fit TM and look as amazing as I do

Edited April 22, 2014 by Tehcaveman

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

I think we have had some really good submissions lately. Between Tehcaveman, zoekoner, WideAMG, PreD, TK-5906, Dogliani, SorenM, etc... there have been some excellent armors submitted. So i don't really see what you're complaining about.

 

And also don't confound EIB with Centurion. The level of exigence is way different between both. As Centurion isn't aiming to be a perfect Replica.

[Tehcaveman]

I think we have had some really good submissions lately. Between Tehcaveman, zoekoner, WideAMG, PreD, TK-5906, Dogliani, SorenM, etc... there have been some excellent armors submitted. So i don't really see what you're complaining about.

 

And also don't confound EIB with Centurion. The level of exigence is way different between both. As Centurion isn't aiming to be a perfect Replica.

 

Thank you!! And I agree with you.. MR no stripes is perfect case in point!! Great armor and screen accurate helmet.. There should be a third award for those that care to go far beyond the norm and build a screen viewed set of armor.. Just my 2 cents...

[Locitus[Admin]]

EIB was created as a way to get people to move away from the FX helmet. So let's keep that in perspective. Centurion is about doing it "right". But not necessarily as a prop replica. But we could create such an award if enough people want it. That's why I've already made a forum section for it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tehcaveman]

EIB was created as a way to get people to move away from the FX helmet. So let's keep that in perspective. Centurion is about doing it "right". But not necessarily as a prop replica. But we could create such an award if enough people want it. That's why I've already made a forum section for it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

I knew the EIB was to get rid of the FX helmet and in time armor but always thought centurion was for screen accuracy and replicating what's seen on film.. I would gladly vote for a replica award.. We should have replica awards for weapons as well since many take their pipe builds above and beyond standard and mimic screen accurate blasters down to the T...

[Locitus[Admin]]

If we did the replica award, that would include the weapons as well I would imagine.

 

Centurion is about doing it as close to screen accurate as the 501st and our needs for trooping permits. A replica award would be also open to non-501st members that just want to own a truly screen accurate suit, even if it has oddities like no stripes or an odd number of teeth cut out.

[I'm Batman[501st]]

Thanks for everyone’s input, it’s helping somewhat. I guess my thoughts on what those awards are for might be misunderstood. I had interpreted them to be: Base – just whatever goes as long as it looks close; EIB – a little bit closer to screen accurate; Centurion – even closer to screen accurate. Then there is that separate discussion that Mathias mentions about actual individual armor examples seen on screen, like Mr No Stripes, or Han replicas.

 

Germain – Yes, we’ve had some excellent submissions of late, and looking at most of your examples just now, I agree, those are some of those submissions. It was more the not so excellent submissions that I was referring to.

 

Steve – I think I totally agree with all of your comments – costuming group, fun and interesting hobby, etc, but again, I thought the reasons or levels of that was that Base approval is where everybody has that fun being in a costuming group, but the next levels were for those who strived for a higher level of accuracy.

 

Manny, don’t worry, slap me down if that’s what needed. And yes, you do look mighty fine in your armor. No comment on out of armor .But I really didn’t want to name names totally for that reason – I didn’t want to judge someone, rather judge FISD’s standards or what’s written in the CRL’s. And yes, I imagine there’s heaps of troopers who don’t care and that’s their right, but the ones that do care (me, you) should do it right I thought – “These are the pinnacle of armor building!†or something like that.

 

I do use the build threads, EIB and Centurion submissions for my inspiration and ideas on how to do things right, better, or different and it just disheartens me a little when I see things that were never in any movie, or clearly not in the CRL’s, being passed.

 

Anyway, I didn’t want to upset individuals, so I’ll just move along now, and get to build my armor, and look forward and welcome any constructive criticism that comes in order to achieve the standards of many others here.

[iconoclasta_88[501st]]

I think the levels of the different CRL and the accuracy badges are easily misunderstood. But that is due to the fact that the badges or awards were made for members needs or ideas, not necesarily for the Legion needs. But anyway, we need to make them work.

 

I am in favor of a replica badge or award, can see it happen for non 501st members too.

 

It is quiet something making it work, not to mention achieving it, but yes, I think the FISD needs something like that soon.

 

Saludos.

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

If we did the replica award, that would include the weapons as well I would imagine.

 

Centurion is about doing it as close to screen accurate as the 501st and our needs for trooping permits. A replica award would be also open to non-501st members that just want to own a truly screen accurate suit, even if it has oddities like no stripes or an odd number of teeth cut out.

 

I wonder if people making a Replica would really look for an award? Perhaps just a "Show-off" section would be enough, easier to establish and really cool

[Locitus[Admin]]

No idea. But the same could be said about Centurion.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[thederek]

I'm trying to go for ESB Centurion when my kit gets in, so the CRL's I assume are ok and accurate to go by when I start my build? Also doing a DD ESB pipe build as well. Just asking, thanks!

[iconoclasta_88[501st]]

I wonder if people making a Replica would really look for an award? Perhaps just a "Show-off" section would be enough, easier to establish and really cool

 

I don't really know what other people think but... I, as a member of the 501st, would like to have a replica award. I mean, once I get EIB and Centurion, I would like to go further. I am building a replica Stormtrooper armor, and my plan is to go over the centurion standard. I will be very happy to achieve both FISD badges, but I know they are easier to get than I plan to go.

 

 

For me, and I don't mean to compare, but the Centurion is somewhere in bewteen EIB and Deployed Officer status, and SWAT. EIB and Deployed being the very basic level of accuracy, and SWAT going a bit further than Centurion in looks. But I also consider Centurion goes a bit further than SWAT in terms of build, not in replicating looks anyway. Cause it is just generalized even if specific in build terms.

 

So, for me, having a Replica Bagde would be the thing to aim for, and would be over both Centurion and SWAT. That is what i intend to do with my latest build.

 

But then, other forums have been created based on the über accuracy idea and the replicating style I am talking about. Forums like the LSD... with a limited success anyway. But why not incorporate that spirit that pushed the founders of the FSD to create it and incorporate it to the FISD? Why exclude when we can include... and by including this kind of push, we would be encouraging the community to go further with their builds, and... ins't that the whole purpose of the Detachments?

 

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

Saludos

Edited April 23, 2014 by iconoclasta_88

[zoekoner[TK]]

Anyway, I didn’t want to upset individuals, so I’ll just move along now, and get to build my armor, and look forward and welcome any constructive criticism that comes in order to achieve the standards of many others here.

 

I see what you did there lol Move along!

 

A wise man just told me you are only limited by your own experience and talent...

 

I cant wait to see your build. I feel like this is the heart and the spirit of the FISD for the most part, Troopers wanting to be above and beyond even if they are not signed up for EIB. I love it. Making YOUR amor to the best of your ability makes YOU feel good and after all isn't that the point of a build? I understand the origin of this post and you were not coming from a malicious place. Troopers helping troopers is the motto here keep up the good work sith!

[Tehcaveman]

I see what you did there lol Move along!

 

A wise man just told me you are only limited by your own experience and talent...

 

I cant wait to see your build. I feel like this is the heart and the spirit of the FISD for the most part, Troopers wanting to be above and beyond even if they are not signed up for EIB. I love it. Making YOUR amor to the best of your ability makes YOU feel good and after all isn't that the point of a build? I understand the origin of this post and you were not coming from a malicious place. Troopers helping troopers is the motto here keep up the good work sith!

 

As I agree with Greg some of us can't help being a little short to be a trooper lol.. Get ready for sww it's gonna be along weekend for you bud!! But in all seriousness the replica award would be cool.. I'm not a fan of the high brow but I must give in and get a highbrow hero kit and a new right bicep clip to be able to mimic Han better..(learned my lesson adding that to my centurion tittle) all the comments were great and constructive and learned what needs to be done for the replica award.. Maybe Greg will have his Luke done and we can troop as a dual.. Thank you Sith for you nice comments as I can assure you I look good with or without my armor.. Do you and build your armor to the specs you want while following the crl you can go above and beyond it's up to you.. I don't know of many troopers that have EIB stunt/hero awards and shooting for centurion awards for both.. That's something I wanted to do.. Anyways good luck to you

[The5thHorseman[501st]]

I don't really know what other people think but... I, as a member of the 501st, would like to have a replica award. I mean, once I get EIB and Centurion, I would like to go further. I am building a replica Stormtrooper armor, and my plan is to go over the centurion standard. I will be very happy to achieve both FISD badges, but I know they are easier to get than I plan to go.

 

 

For me, and I don't mean to compare, but the Centurion is somewhere in bewteen EIB and Deployed Officer status, and SWAT. EIB and Deployed being the very basic level of accuracy, and SWAT going a bit further than Centurion in looks. But I also consider Centurion goes a bit further than SWAT in terms of build, not in replicating looks anyway. Cause it is just generalized even if specific in build terms.

 

So, for me, having a Replica Bagde would be the thing to aim for, and would be over both Centurion and SWAT. That is what i intend to do with my latest build.

 

But then, other forums have been created based on the über accuracy idea and the replicating style I am talking about. Forums like the LSD... with a limited success anyway. But why not incorporate that spirit that pushed the founders of the FSD to create it and incorporate it to the FISD? Why exclude when we can include... and by including this kind of push, we would be encouraging the community to go further with their builds, and... ins't that the whole purpose of the Detachments?

 

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

The thing for me is that defining the Replica level seems very difficult to me. How deep in the accuracy should we ask in order to obtain the Replica level? I mean it's not only using brackets...

 

The stormtrooper armor is very well known and with the amazing thread about some of the original strapping used for the armors on the film compiled and posted by Locitus, can we allow a "Replica" which wouldn't use it. Because all the armors just cannot be built with this stuff, as most of all are very vintage and therefore extremely rare and difficult to find, especially if you're outside the UK. And if not used is it still a Replica? Should we make Tiers inside the Replica level...?

 

Then only few armor makers could compete for this award, RS, CfO, and TM, (and one of these days eFX i guess). I've personnaly nothing against that but i'm sure it would be frustrating for some.

[zoekoner[TK]]

The thing for me is that defining the Replica level seems very difficult to me. How deep in the accuracy should we ask in order to obtain the Replica level? I mean it's not only using brackets...

 

The stormtrooper armor is very well known and with the amazing thread about some of the original strapping used for the armors on the film compiled and posted by Locitus, can we allow a "Replica" which wouldn't use it. Because all the armors just cannot be built with this stuff, as most of all are very vintage and therefore extremely rare and difficult to find, especially if you're outside the UK. And if not used is it still a Replica? Should we make Tiers inside the Replica level...?

 

Then only few armor makers could compete for this award, RS, CfO, and TM, (and one of these days eFX i guess). I've personnaly nothing against that but i'm sure it would be frustrating for some.

 

Oooowww i like where this is going! Valid point! Is just an outward appearance acceptable? Should we hunt down counters for blasters? Need metal pipe builds? Only be allowed to HDPE helmets with chipper paint? What about latex allergies and hand plates?

[iconoclasta_88[501st]]

Maybe it is looks not function...

 

Or maybe, it is not an option for everyone, and whoever wants to achieve it, needs to meet the requirements.

 

Don't know.

 

But, Yeah, I understand your questions. But at the end, it could be a badge, not a level.

Like a car elegance contest... you can win a blue ribbon with a classic Jaguar, a Mercedez-Benz or whatever car, but you need to get all the original parts and make it work and bring them to perfect shape.

 

Not for everyone, no. But yet it exists.

 

Don't know, don't want to think of it like an elitist program, but, in the best intention, it is.

 

Just food for thought.

 

Saludos.

[Tehcaveman]

Oooowww i like where this is going! Valid point! Is just an outward appearance acceptable? Should we hunt down counters for blasters? Need metal pipe builds? Only be allowed to HDPE helmets with chipper paint? What about latex allergies and hand plates?

 

Usually the men with $$ always have the nicer toys.. I would agree it isn't fair for others with non TM, RS, CFO, EFX armor not be allowed to play but that's what happens.. shucks I wanna race a Porsche in the club series I'm a part of but can't afford it.. I have to stick to my measly miata.. As far as allergies go we can make an exception for them.. Now are we going true to size IE height and weight ?

[Locitus[Admin]]

It's an interesting discussion, but you are missing some of the points. The idea is replica. Not suit. You don't have to be able to wear it. And if you have allergies and are overweight, you stick it on a mannequin. But you do not make alterations to it that strays away from the goal.

 

Yes, it is very much a selective program and none I will partake in even myself. But those that have the gear can do. And it makes fantastic reference for the rest of us.

 

You can't compete in the Porsche race if you don't own a Porsche. But you don't have to have Porsche branded air tubes in your wheel houses (aka newey snaps). But it's certainly a plus if you do.

[Tehcaveman]

Touché on the quote.. I compete with them as many are in the same grouping unfair on the straights for me but I make up for it in the curves

[Locitus[Admin]]

Should be noted however that I would consider "newey style" snaps a minimum. So no tandy snaps for example.