Peregrinus Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Not getting into all the other costumes in the works, I am doing three ANH TKs and a TD for me, my sweetie Jen, my friend Todd, and my friend Matt, respectively. They are going to be variously involved in the construction of their suits, but I'm spearheading the project. Besides all the paints and glues and supplies I've accumulated, I have just taken the first big step. Two TE2 stunt helmet kits arrived last week to my extreme giddiness. I asked about my desire to "correct" the orignal imperfections to the helmet sculpt, and if that would interfere with achieving Elite status (it won't ). I have no digicam yet (luddite, I know), and I'm going to get this film turned around and the pics scanned as soon as I can. In the meantime, I've begun my oh-my-gods-you're-insane mods. The basic cleanup has been taken care of -- eyeholes opened, vac-table flashing removed, faceplate and cap lined up and overlap minimised, earpieces fitted. Mike? Your tutorial is heaven-sent. Thank you so much. I want to have your babies. Now I'm on to the scary stuff. Lower face cut off, teeth removed, traps and tears removed. I'm starting the detail-reshaping, pit-filling, subtle tweaks, and otherwise prepping the upper faceplate and cap'n'back for painting. While they spend the following week curing, I'll turn my attention to the chin grilles and earpiece greeblies. More on that as it develops, too. For now, though... I think I'll be pretty well documenting the process, but if there are any specific things y'all want to see, let me know now so I can make sure I get shots of it. --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketariniii Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Wow.......... Seems like quite the undertaking... Cant wait to see the pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Shortly after I originally posted this thread, the MR CE bucket came out and I faced some confusion. Been focussing on other costumes, most notably getting my TR ready to take with me to Dragon*Con. Spent a month on the other end of the continent. Now I'm re-settled at home and the dilemma remains... I have an MR CE bucket now, myself. I was originally thinking of using it as a guide to "symmetricalize" my TE2s. Now I'm not sure. Fixing the asymmetry of the screen-accurate buckets won't render them non-elite-eligible, but they will no longer be screen-accurate. That both does and does not bother me. On the one hand, I want something that looks like what was seen onscreen, and on the other I want to fix the little production shortcusts, rush-job screwups, and other things that make most movie costumes look like crap close up. It really bugs me that the frown is off-centre -- and asymmetrical, to boot. It really bugs me that the right and left aerator shrouds are sculpted entirely differently when you look at them. It really bugs me that the tube brackets on the ear pieces are completely different from one side to the other. See? On the one hand I could mod some MR CEs, and finish the TE2s screen-accurate -- warts'n'all. On the other, I could go with my plan to use the MR CE as a guide for idealizing the TE2s. I'm just looking for opinions here, nd don't feel like making it a poll... --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebladejedi[TK] Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I thought from your first post back in feb you had already cut your te2 to pieces and started reworking the details. Why anyone would want to buy a te2 and then take it to bits and try to make it a sanitised and mirrored lid is beyond me.. its like trying to change a moto gp racer change jobs to become a bus driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billhag Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 sanitise a TE2!!!!..... I......I.....I just can't watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stukatrooper Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 No words just lots of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-1287 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Asymmetry gives Stormtroopers character. Or else we'd just be the Skittle-Brigade Clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802[501st] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 If you're idiosyncratic about symmetry, then the TE2 isn't for you, period. You might as well stick to the MR CE to salve your concerns and free up more time to work on your other costuming projects instead of trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. It all boils down to personal preference - are you into screen accuracy or symmetry? No right answer I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mark, I do, in fact have one faceplate partially done. Chin cut off, teeth cut off, reworking the openings for the teeth in the upper and lower faceplate sections, tears cut out and ready for reworking... (quick one with my phone) And I want to cut up a TE2 so I can take one of the most accurate TK helmet recreations and use that as a starting point to fix the errors from the original sculpt -- basically doing on a personal scale what Master Replicas did with their MR CE (except with a finer eye to the details). This was planned before I even knew about the MRCE. It's not like I'd be cutting up an original prop. I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to not change anything, though, if one was working at replicating the look of said original film prop. It's just... A great many of the people who worked on Star Wars didn't "get it" and thought it would be only a marginal success -- if it didn't bomb outright. No one thought it would attract the attention and following it did. If they had, and if they'd had more time and money, I imagine (amongst other things) the sculptors would have taken a little more care in making sure things were even. There's some asymmetry in Vader's mask, and he's a major "face" character. They fixed that for Episode III. The stunt Stormtrooper helmet wasn't really ever meant to be seen close-up -- they were background heavies. Notice how they reworked the frown for the hero version. I can't imagine any military benefit to making Stormtroopers' helmets asymmetrical. Mostly just thinking out loud here (as it were). I'm going to have symmetrical, idealized helmets for my other costumes. I want one for this costume. I know it's an unpopular view with a good chunk of this community, but I don't find asymmetry characterful -- it just seems sloppy to me. If I have an unmodded, asymmetrical TE2, it would just be a display piece, a replica of the film prop to show off, and I don't really do that sort of thing with props and costumes. I'd want to wear it. I guess I posed the wrong question above: Should I abandon the TE2s and mod MR CEs; or continue with my original plan to mod the TE2s, even if it's a pain in the butt? The MR CEs would probably be easier to fix up, but the TE2 is a more accurate foundation to start from. My only problems with the stunt TK helmet are from below the goggles down and from the tube brackets forward -- brackets, tears, frown, cheeks and aerator shrouds. Everything else would be stock. *heh* Sorry for my lack of clarity on this. I'm still fumbling my way through the thought process, myself... --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIVE[501st] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Wow.......... Seems like quite the undertaking... Cant wait to see the pics. Yeah... me too. Pics will be amazing. Although, I must say that as much as I like the modded "idealized" MR CE I have, if I had a TE2 I would revel in its unsymmetrical / screen accurate glory. Oh... and good to see Alex back on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-4224[501st] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 MURDER lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daetrin[Admin] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Actually I think MR took parts of one of TE's helmets, scanned it, and then just mirror-imaged it if I remember correctly. I know Gentle Giant also scanned a TE for one of their figures - not sure if they did the same symmetr-zation or not (alas, I have $$ for armor but not for figures). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 That doesn't surprise me. Problem is that the asymmetry means you can't just take half and mirror it. It needs to be reworked dynamically to preserve the overall look. That's why the CE's frown looks so off. I want to make this so one has to look two and a half times to be sure whether it's symmetrical or not, and not draw notice as being glaringly different when next to other TE2s. Heck, the frown tweak is a matter of an eighth of an inch, and that's the most easily-spotted alteration... And Paul, I like to say we're making 1:1 action figures. --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG[501st] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 For comparison how much is AP stun helmet asymetrical. Here is drawing of shape from part of helmet, where are visible left and right side of helmet. Difference in the widest part i 10 mm. This line inside is interpolation of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-1287 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 If you're idiosyncratic about symmetry, then the TE2 isn't for you, period. You might as well stick to the MR CE to salve your concerns and free up more time to work on your other costuming projects instead of trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. It all boils down to personal preference - are you into screen accuracy or symmetry? No right answer I'm afraid. I agree. People go out of their way to get a TE bucket to have the screen accuracy. If you want a symmetrical bucket, then you can get yourself the MRCE, FX, etc. Even Kev's A.N.H. looks pretty good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Brian and Andy... I got the TE2s with the intention of "truing them up" so they were balanced before the MR CE came out. I already spent the money, have them, and love them. I was already underway in the modding when the MR CE came out. There were options available for a symmetrical (or at least as nearly as we can do without CAD/CAM setups), but I wanted to start from a base as true to the original as possible (no TE v. GF debates here, please...). When the MR CE came out, it threw a spanner in the plan. I could get some of those and mod 'em to fix the errors, but then what would I do with the TE2s I already had in hand? I'm not such a slavish fan of screen-accuracy that I feel the need to reproduce the mistakes and shortcuts, too, for my costumes. I've already described my "more-accurate-than-the-film-version" costuming philosophy elsewhere on this and other boards -- and drawn both flak and praise for it. What this is boiling down to is whether I should continue with my original plan or abandon the TE2s and get some MR CEs to mod instead. What I love about the TE2 isn't its asymmetry -- it's the close lineage to the original prop. I wanted to start with something pretty much the right size and shape and go from there... And that's something I don't really know if I'd say the CE has. It has its own set of things that are "off" about the details. Too many things that are the wrong shape, even if just by a little. And if I do decide to switch to the CE, what do I do with the TE2s? I love them and don't want to resell them. I'd rather build them up and wear 'em. I apologize again for the whinging. I know this is my thread, and I'm making a pretty key choice here in how I go forward with these helmets, but it still probably isn't how you'd spend your time on here. I mainly need people to offer feedback and dissenting opinions, so I can clear up my own confusion. --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThayNerd[TK] Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think you should sell the TE2s it sounds like the MR CEs would be better for what you have in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-1287 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah, I would greatly appreciate a TE2 helmet, and seeing them get torn up really irritates me. There are many "accurate" symmetrical helmets out there, and to rip up a bucket made specifically to show the asymmetry in the helmet debases the scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacTrooper Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 YES I WOULD TOTALLY BUY ONE OF THOSE TE BUCKET FROM YOU!! please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkrestonva[TK] Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 As was said, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the finished product. I'd love to see it side-by-side with an unmodded TE2 and an MRCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD2802[501st] Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 When the MR CE came out, it threw a spanner in the plan. I could get some of those and mod 'em to fix the errors, but then what would I do with the TE2s I already had in hand? I'm not such a slavish fan of screen-accuracy that I feel the need to reproduce the mistakes and shortcuts, too, for my costumes. My approach would've been to stick to the original plan with the TE2s and exercise some restraint about the MR CE release. After all if you were of a mindset intending to mod the TE2s in the first place (blasphemous as it may be to some people, what you do with your lids is entirely up to you) why spend more time and money on another variation? That is unless you enjoy the challenges modding involves. But since you went ahead and got the MRs, I believe buyer's remorse kicked in when comparing how more symmetric it was than TE2, and more suitable to your aesthetic comfort zone. In short, what I would've done if I was a symmetry junkie was mod one of the TE2s and keep the other as a display. Not even considering the MR CE means saving some time/money, keeping the TE2 for its pedigree and modding one to your heart's content. My .02 but the ultimate decision is yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-7980 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I'll take one of the TE2s off your hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Brian, thanks for your concerns. I really only bought one MR CE so I could fondle it and examine it in person, see how it compares to the TE2, its suitability as a guide for potential mods -- either way... That sort of thing. And I know from the MR CE mod threads that I can then fix it into something closer to the look of the original. That one, I'm going to paint red and use for my Royal Guard Stormtrooper armour. As for the concerns over my brutalizing the TE2s... They're accurate, not that expensive, easy to work with, and Tony's a sweetheart to work with. But I don't consider it a movie-TK holy grail. If that were my aim, I'd have gone for a TE HDPE or Dan Laws' new offering. Thank you all for helping me think this through, though. More WIP pics forthcoming. I have a roll of film to finish and develop first. --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinus Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Having had a few days to look at what I have and ponder in light of the discussion and advice here... I'm going to keep working on the one I'd already cut apart. Once it's done and we can all see how it looks. At that point I'll make a choice about the other two. Can that be an acceptable compromise for the time being? --Jonah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezerkus Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Having had a few days to look at what I have and ponder in light of the discussion and advice here... I'm going to keep working on the one I'd already cut apart. Once it's done and we can all see how it looks. At that point I'll make a choice about the other two. Can that be an acceptable compromise for the time being? --Jonah My heart may resume beating for the other two... Totally kidding, it will be interesting to see... Dr. Frankenstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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