More accurate Sterling/E-11 paint finish

[usaeatt2]

But our group needs to know we can be accurate and still have some fun and be creative with certain things.

NICE!!!

[jkno]

 

none of the props were left with the original sterling paint period!

 

 

Exactly.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

There is plenty of information about the paint finish here: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29520&s=ffb9a8e365a250f97339fad40c92de1e

data source is correct and can add data.  you might note that these posts are not discussing original paint.

they are discussing modern paints to attempt to replicate the older versions.

 

the goal is to have fun, choose your own path... and know the real vs the ideal, or the personal choice.

in costuming there are many paths to having fun!

Edited March 10, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I think what is the feeling here is that although the parts need to be present and accurate, the final finish/color of the blaster can be left to certain "creative interpretations". I agree. Your blaster should not be fluorescent red. But some folks, as myself, want my blaster to be mistaken for a real weapon up close. If that means I am going for a slight color variance, so be it. The blasters are not as closely scrutinized here as the armor is.

 

From a DO point of view, I am looking for all the physical parts ("D" ring, t-tracks, parts that look like Sterling parts) I don't want it to get that level where each aspect is being nit picked to death. Look at the Sci-Fires. The Pistol grip is not gloss black, you can't see through and under the scope rail, the folding stock is solid underneath, the barrel end is not a hole........OMG!!!!!! There are some that hold the passion for absolute accuracy close to their hearts and good for them. But our group needs to know we can be accurate and still have some fun and be creative with certain things.

I have always admired the way steve thinks.  We are on the same page.

 

 

for me it is always flat black, gloss grip, and bumps on body and details. minimal weathering to match this style.

Edited March 10, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[gazmosis[501st]]

Thank you, Vern. Thank goodness we are all on the same team here!

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

the goal is just accuracy, free choice, and fun!

[russellr2d2[TK]]

Hello all,

 

I am a complete nube here and have yet to even receive my DoopyDoo's order for an E11 (I ordered it Sunday morning 3/9...you guys know how long they usually take to ship?).

 

Anyway I am fascinated by all the discussion, photos and back and forth here.  But I have been thinking really hard about how I want to finish my E11.  There seems to be a lot of effort to replicate the movie props and I might just do that after all but, right now I am leaning to making my E11 a "real Stormtrooper Blaster".  Which is not an attempt to make a replica movie prop but to make a "real stormtroopers weapon".  

 

I saw a blaster painted in a flat smooth finish and it looked great!  All new and clean just like it had been issued on the Death Star from the weapons locker a month or two ago.  Wouldn't every stormtrooper want his weapon to be as nice and clean?  After all their lives depend on it's function, they better take care of it.  I would like to add some wear/scuff on the black finish because it has been used a bit and stored away in a locker right?  So to me I think the finish might be a completely smooth- simigloss black, very modern and not unlike the Death Star itself...clean, sharp, and maintained because the Empire can afford such things (after all we are reaping in all that tax money from the outer planets yes?).  I think a smooth flat or simigloss finish would be very in tune to the entire style of the Empire itself. A crinkle finish just isn't what I see on the Death Star in the movie.  Let those Sandtroopers have the dirty guns, Im on the Death Star and we keep sharp! You never when know when you might bump into Lord Vader or worse the Emperor himself    !

 

Anyway just have a bit of fun.  I thought I would add my cent and a half because I do not really see anyone talking about making our E11's as "real blasters" but as movie props. What do you guys and gals think about choices in finish.  What is the most popular finish out there now?

 

Thanks!

Russell

Edited March 28, 2014 by russellr2d2

[gazmosis[501st]]

There are many finishes, Russ. I have seen almost every combination of blacks, flt blacks, bumpy gloss, bumpy matte. The only one you really want to stay away from is high gloss black. The ONLY part on your blaster that should be this finish is the pistol grip. The t-track grips up front are mostly painted flat black but I have seen them slightly matte finish. Make what makes you happy yet stays within the rules. Use reference pics available here or anywhere else you can search "british sterling SMG"

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

the real stormtrooper blaster is painted with several finishes.

 

first of all the main tube is bumpy to reduce reflections.

the magazine well is smooth, as is the mag.  the front tip is smooth, the rear end cap is smooth.

this replicates the movie style finish.

 

the grips are gloss black on the plastic portion, but the trigger group is smooth and has gunmetal and steel details on it.

 

the weapons in the actual film have no weathering on them at all...

look here

 

[usaeatt2]

Long story, but I had to replace the front bumper on my truck several months ago.  I bought a chrome bumper from Taiwan, because it was less than half the price of a dealer bumper.  About 2 months after installation, it started rusting.    By now, it looked terrible, but the rest of the truck is in excellent shape.  I had to do something about the eye sore on the front of the truck.  Yesterday, I removed what was left of the chrome (not very much) using a 40 grit flapper wheel.  Then I sprayed the whole thing with Duplicolor Bed Armor (truck bed liner).  Unfortunately, I didn't think to take a picture - it had a nice flat finish and is supposed to be tough as nails.  I topcoated it with Krylon semi-gloss black.  That's when I realized this is kind of like painting a blaster...  Just thought I'd post the results for comparison and a possible finishing option.

 

[gazmosis[501st]]

Paint it!

[usaeatt2]

Paint it!

 

LOL!  Paint is in the mail.  I'm going to use flat black Gunkote for this one.  I didn't even know that product existed until I read Felice's "Make do and mend" thread.

[gazmosis[501st]]

Brother.....plan on it now to have a back up blaster to take to conventions or any other event where security might be a concern and weapons might be checked. You will never convince security it's not real.......that's a compliment!!!!

[usaeatt2]

Brother.....plan on it now to have a back up blaster to take to conventions or any other event where security might be a concern and weapons might be checked. You will never convince security it's not real.......that's a compliment!!!!

 

Thanks, Steve.  I've already got plans for a backup blaster...something, to my knowledge, hasn't been done yet...and it's gonna be COOL!

[TK Droid[TK]]

Veary nice great job. 

[mablax12]

Think someone mentioned earlier about not being sure of the reason they used this coating on the Sterlings. It may be of interest to note that WWII Zippos were finished in the same way with the black wrinkle, and the reason for it was that they were using 2nd grade steel instead of brass as they had before (as brass and 1st grade steel were needed for the war effort), and like Aaron noted above, these lighters with the cheaper material started to rust and corrode. The finish was then added as a protective measure for harsh conditions, which the Sterlings most certainly would have seen in some places. Figured it was worth noting even though this is an older thread.

[Tr00per]

The induction brazing process, latterly used with great succes in permanently attaching the componements of the gun's casing assembly, was not introduced until series production of the sterling began in the mid-1950's.

 

Prior to that, production of the relatively few numbers of guns required relied much more intensively on hand-work.

 

Early magazine housings were butt-welded to the casings, a process that left an unslightly bead of glass-hard weld around the joint.

This was laboriously ground to approximate a smooth radius from casing to housing.

(with greater or lesser success, as examinations of the closeup photos of these early guns will reveal).

 

In response to Ordnance board complaints about the durability of the Parkerised-and-painted finish in use up to that time, a process was developed whereby a wood resin was added to a tough black paint which, when sprayed on the complete casing and oven-baked, set up into a random, non-slip surface of tiny, hard wrinkles on a dullish black background, rather like parkerising in reverse! Voila, the crackle finish, which as David Howroyd points out, had the happy secondary advantage of hiding,

''a multitude of sins'', especially in smoothing over the residual grind marks on the welded joint between the casing and the magazine housing.

 

The later switch to induction brazing solved this problem, as it was as much more controllable process and left a far neater join.

 

However, by that time the crackle finish had established itself as entirely satisfactory, and it was thus maintained throughout all commercial Sterling production, and only the UK Milatary usually opting for matt black paint.

[TKZombie[TK]]

The E-11 is not replica of a WWII British Sterling. They used it as the basis for building a laser blaster weapon for a movie. I think being screen accurate is more important than trying to match something from WWII.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

I own parts kits from the early FZ production line, and also have owned the MOD sterling parts kits.

 

The painting process required by the various ministry, and the two competing gun manufacturers produced 2 kinds of paint finishes during the trials to replace the sten.  The original british sterlings have smooth sections on the various induction braised parts.  While the police carbines, and FZ finishes used a different type of paint altogether.

 

During my research I found that the demil guns are all produced with a different finish than the firing versions of the props used in the film.

When paint finish replication is discussed by sterling owners, we find that the surcote paint was originally produced in russia, and was a carcinogen.  In the 70's and 80's sterlings were re-finished to maintain their use in law enforcement, and in various nations that purchased the sterlings from britian, and produced in other nations under license.

 

To properly create the surcoated sterlings that were used as live fire weapons, we have the following details.

• Smooth Tip.
• Smooth end cap.
• Magazine well is completely free of texture. As is the magazine itself.
• Body of gun, and trigger group sleeve have a slightly bumpy texture, and the folding stocks can have a lines wrinkle type of finish that looks like the paint steve is diagraming.

Covering the entire body of the blaster is a spray of flat black across the top, to cover the sight rail, power cells and hengstler counter with a rough and uneven coat of paint.  The power cells, and counter box were jarred on the live fire weapons to such an extent that the parts fell off during scenes where blanks were used.

 

Only the live firing versions had the real bolt, and trigger groups intact with their original paint schemes.  One detail I notice is that the live fire gun has an M19 scope attached, and there is a silver dot on the rear site, at the side.  These appear to be subtle changes so that the armorer on set might quickly identify the various e-11's in use.

[Tr00per]

The live firing Sterlings used in ANH are wrinkle finish...

 

The rest used onscreen is unknown to me...

Edited January 4, 2016 by Tr00per

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

Han and luke both fire the same M19 scoped e-11.  It does not have a crinkle finish. The bapty blasters, did not have a crinkle finish.

The finish is not smooth, but it's not crinkle paint.

 

Police carbines were finished with crinkle paint, as we know it.  The british military design of coating produces a wavy, bumpy appearance.

and the crinkle paint many people see on modern sterlings is a bad repaint. 

 

The Fazerkley and Sterling weapons have 2 distinct types of paint finish.  The sterlings used in blank firing during star wars were also used in "The Spy Who loved me" and all were mid model sterling british mil spec designs.  The finish was created to minimise glare.

 

and then was painted flat black again by the prop dept.

[mikidymac[TK]]

So I am new here and working on my first Doopy E-11 but I am still confused on finish. Everything I hear on FISD is for screen accuracy but as soon as you get to the blaster topic everyone wants to make a realistic Sterling with weathering and all the brass and steel showing to look like the military issue ones. For an E-11 though shouldn't it get a simple spray of flat black on everything but the grip? Isn't that how the prop department did it?

 

Or, is it just a preference as to if you are making a Sterling SMG or an E-11?

[Tr00per]

Lol Vern,

 

It don't even match info in the guns of dagenham book.

 

makes no sence at all.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Tr00per

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

Lol Vern,

 

It don't even match info in the guns of dagenham book.

 

makes no sence at all.

Don't just laugh... show the GofD book references.  I have no problem looking in detail.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

So I am new here and working on my first Doopy E-11 but I am still confused on finish. Everything I hear on FISD is for screen accuracy but as soon as you get to the blaster topic everyone wants to make a realistic Sterling with weathering and all the brass and steel showing to look like the military issue ones. For an E-11 though shouldn't it get a simple spray of flat black on everything but the grip? Isn't that how the prop department did it?

 

Or, is it just a preference as to if you are making a Sterling SMG or an E-11?

People start wanting to make it a sterling replica for an e-11 and they miss the fact that in star wars the weapons carried by front line troopers are not weathered.  The bapty which is the sandtrooper e-11 CAN be more weathered, but usually not so much.