Trooper-Armor-Familiy-Tree - an experiment

[SuperTrooper]

So where does the Marco fit in?  It looks to be the predecessor of the FX but if GF sculpted what the FX started from......

[Tolo[TK]]

So where does the Marco fit in? It looks to be the predecessor of the FX but if GF sculpted what the FX started from......

 

The maker of FX used to distribute GF's original suit. Then one day, got a suit sended in Mexico and recasted for cheap, without changing anything. You could even see the Canadian dime imprint of the Queen in his first recast.

 

The GF1 was sculped by GF.

 

 

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[89Batman[TK]]

Paul and Rob. The burden of proof is on the accuser and not on the accused. As you both seem to agree there is no conclusive proof in these accusations I strongly suggest that you both keep your opinions to yourselves.

I prefer to ignore hearsay and conjecture or rumours and chose to take a skilled artist at his word.

I guess what I am saying, in the nicest possible way you understand, is put up or shut up.

 

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[Minuteman]

Paul and Rob. The burden of proof is on the accuser and not on the accused. As you both seem to agree there is no conclusive proof in these accusations I strongly suggest that you both keep your opinions to yourselves.

I prefer to ignore hearsay and conjecture or rumours and chose to take a skilled artist at his word.

I guess what I am saying, in the nicest possible way you understand, is put up or shut up.

 

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Amen I say!

 

And now lets get btt

[geordietrooper]

so when somebody claims to have sculpted a full tk

from scratch without any photographic proof of any sculpting in progress 

that's acceptable is it

 

really  ?

 

its like one person gets a free pass, but everybody else gets put through the wringer 

when it comes to the tk Armour making world

 

and people have to the right to believe tm or not,  just like i have the right to my opinion

 

that's my last 2pence worth on this matter 

Edited February 16, 2014 by geordietrooper

[Locitus[Admin]]

There are progress pictures of the kid suits and they look just as accurate.

 

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[Toddo[TK]]

Not true. I recommend your armor to many people, including those in my garrison, even today, and on these boards.

 

as a garrison-mate of Paul's as well as his co-GML partner, I can say that Paul is a fan of the TM armor.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Paul and Rob. The burden of proof is on the accuser and not on the accused. As you both seem to agree there is no conclusive proof in these accusations I strongly suggest that you both keep your opinions to yourselves.

I prefer to ignore hearsay and conjecture or rumours and chose to take a skilled artist at his word.

I guess what I am saying, in the nicest possible way you understand, is put up or shut up.

 

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I have no dog in this fight. What proof does anyone have of any of the rest of the tree then? You take all that on faith, it seems. However, if the others who have PM'd, emailed, phoned, etc. their opinions about the origins of Paul's molds don't want to chime in, then I'm content to let it go.

[89Batman[TK]]

Bottom line here is an ex DL has stated as a fact that TM is not a fan sculpt and shouuld not be reported as such. At no point does he justify or qualify his statement with 'in my opinion' Rob you then continue in the same manner again spouting an opinion as if it is fact. Yes you are entitled to an opinion but remember it is just that an opinion. It has no place in a factual thread without evidence.

 

I would like to deal in facts not opinions.

 

Please as I have suggested once before put up or shut up.

 

Paul has stated he sculpted the armour himself.

 

It is not acceptable behaviour to call another member a liar without evidence to back up the accusation and should be considered flaming which as I am sure you are both aware is against the rules of this forum.

 

Paul as ex DL I ask that you recognise this and apologise. Rob I ask that you do the same.

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Fine, if you believe him then just have the DL delete my posts. Honestly, if it's that important to you, I just don't care anymore. You have no more evidence than I do.

[89Batman[TK]]

I am not the one making accusations Paul,

[Daetrin[Admin]]

Paul I ask this with the utmost respect and am in no way trying to flame or cause bad feeling. Have you got 100% conclusive evidence of what you are stating with regard to your comments about the origins of Paul's ™ helmet and armour?

 

I have heard smatterings of this in the past and personally do not believe it to be true. I would ask that you either put forward your evidence or remove the comments. Accusing someone of recasting is a very serious matter and although Paul is not a 501st member per se you are and this is not in keeping with what is in the charter.

I've deleted all my posts, and will never raise the subject again. Ever. This whole detachment was founded on integrity and transparency, but I guess that's no longer how FISD rolls...

[Locitus[Admin]]

Looks like this is settled then. Do you two want to keep your posts, or should I move or deleted/hide them to steer the thread back on topic?

[Locitus[Admin]]

Mathias: How did CAP influence TE, I mean why is the arrow also directed from CAP to TE?

I like your chart, it´s great for a quick overview of the topic and you don´t step to deep into "who-cast-who" discussion. That´s a risk my chart has.

 

I left CFO out for the moment. Is it also from the Cameron Oakley suit? How did Joe and Mark get ahold of it?

 

And is T/MC really cast of the GF2?

As I understood it, CAP recast TE, but then TE ran sold off all his moulds "getting out of the game", and later changed his mind, so to get new moulds, he recast CAP (or himself kind of) which is also how CAP got his "approval" from TE.

 

CFO I think bought the oakley moulds from Cameron. It wasn't that long ago, and I think Mark made a thread about it when it happened.

 

Yes, as far as I know, T/MC is GF2 recast.

[DroidHunter]

Thanks to you guys for again trying to piece all of this together. I find these historical threads to be incredibly fascinating. Its too bad that every time we have a new thread on armor history, it eventually devolves into accusations and vitriol. I understand why this happens, but its still too bad.

 

My question is this (and please understand I am not trying to take a side or stir up any more controversy --  this is just an honest question that comes to mind having reviewed all of this): If there really was ever a question about the status of Troopermaster's armor, how is it that we get this commentary in the vetted armor list:

 

 

 

VETTED MAKERS
While there are many other sources for armor, the list below only contains those who have proven track records of honest business dealings, quality craftsmanship, and that are free from recast debates. You are certainly free to buy where you will, but if you vary this list we strongly encourage that you at least do your due diligence inquiring about the seller's quality and reputation before parting with your money.

 

"Country: UK
Contact: Please see info contained in for sale threads when posted.
Availability: Limited.
Kit: ABS, untrimmed, fan sculpt. Reputedly the most accurate fan sculpt. Seams on legs and arms are butt-joins with capping strips.
Availability: As slots become available, for sale threads will be posted. Kits are very limited and offered infrequently.
Comments: This is really beautiful armour and extremely movie-accurate. It comes at the price of being pretty tricky to assemble though, with potentially a long wait for supply. TM now supplies all his armour in acrylic-capped ABS. His ABS suits are incredibly glossy and, if assembled with care, look fabulous. Not for very tall troopers. Armour is more generous than SDS or AP, but not as large as RT-mod."

[Daetrin[Admin]]

The short answer is because I wrote it and kept it there. Waaaaay back when TM emerged there were many discussions here and on MEPD about the origins of his molds, and as there was no concrete proof that he used a TE kit as a base, and as his armor was (and is) the best reproduction ANH armor out there, and as he's a really good guy who was helping the community tons, I left that text in place.

 

Another reason why it's strange that there is a perception that I "have it out" for TM, when in truth I've been supportive of the guy for years.

 

Mathias: "As I understood it, CAP recast TE, but then TE ran sold off all his moulds "getting out of the game", and later changed his mind, so to get new moulds, he recast CAP (or himself kind of) which is also how CAP got his "approval" from TE."

 

Yup, this is my understanding as well by people who have much more intricate 1st hand information of the transactions than I do, however I have never heard that CAP got any approval from TE, more that TE let things go.

[Tray[TK]]

Love the family tree.

 

Yes, T/MC is cast from the GF2. Many many moons ago approval was given to MonCal to do this with the understanding that some changes were being made. This was all before AP actually bought the molds from my own understanding.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

when I posted on the TM topic at hand I had just had a conversation with TM directly about the origins of TM armor.

 

he stated that he gathered as many armors as he could get his hands on.

took measurements

 

and HAND SCULPTED from there.

 

and I think we should move all TM recast posts, even this one in a breakout thread.

 

in no way TM said did he ever cast a mold.  but he also said that it would be impossible to get the design right

without using as many armors as possible.  he used more than just the TE as a visual guide.

he used many different source armors to produce a hand sculpt.

 

"stay on target"

 

"I can only hold em' off for a few seconds!"

 

"loosen up!"

Edited February 17, 2014 by TK Bondservnt 2392

[Minuteman]

Thanks for the input guys!

 

Here is the reworked familiy tree:

 

 

Do you have any suggestions?

Is someone capable of getting the AA/SDS recast history together WITHOUT (!!!) starting a new giantic recast discussion, that grants us 5 new pages full of smatterings?

Does someone know the MFX history? Maybe not that interesting for those outside Europe/Germany, but many members of the German Garrison are equipped with his stuff, so that would interest me personally....

 

That´s it mostly.

Maybe somebody feels his fingers tingle and wants to do a "visual family tree" with pictures of all those armors mentioned in the chart?

My computer skills are exausted and if there is somebody more experienced concerning graphics.... well, hello

 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by gmrhodes13
photo updated gmrhodes13 2021

[Locitus[Admin]]

Does someone know the MFX history? Maybe not that interesting for those outside Europe/Germany, but many members of the German Garrison are equipped with his stuff, so that would interest me personally....

You can read some of the early history here http://starwarshelmets.com/imperialfanMFX.htm But it's mostly the same these days, they just "upgraded" their moulds by recasting others.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

can you add the data at the top of the tree?

showing Liz moore, brian muir and then elstree plasterers?

[Minuteman]

can you add the data at the top of the tree?

showing Liz moore, brian muir and then elstree plasterers?

Hm... first thing is: I did the chart with word and it would be a ton of work to make enough space at the top to add lizz, brian and elstree to the chart.

Second thing: For me it´s not that necessary to add them, because the big tree is the "TE-lineage-tree", who´s basis was the Cameron suit and Brian R helmet mainly. Adding Lizz, Brian and Elstree would in some way connote that this TE-lineage was integral part of the film-props, but they were just the result of some crazy fans casting their work....Get what I mean?

I believe that the film used suits should get their own tree, our casts and sculpts of them are another story imo.

 

But if you like I could send you the word file and you can work the original armor makers into it.

[TK bondservnt[501st]]

you are the man... it's your  call... I just figured it would make the chart complete.  as it stands there might be some confusion about the origins?

 

I think this is a great idea... and I'd be willing to add some photos.. but I'd have to get permissions and such...

 

good work!

[Locitus[Admin]]

Btw Steffen, you might want to update the chart on the first post for the lazy people who don't read this far back.

[Minuteman]

Btw Steffen, you might want to update the chart on the first post for the lazy people who don't read this far back.

Done