thederek Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 Tim, I'm not sure if you went over it (going back over 15 pages is much too long for someone with ADHD like me, haha). Have you completed the scope rail yet? Either way, the more pressing question is: What are the exact dimensions of the flat alum bar supposed to be? I'm not worried so much by length and bending (as almost all builds could be off by a few mm's in length, in theory), but I'm more concerned about thickness and width. I think I bought some from Lowe's the other day by trying to eye ball it, and it is 1/16" by 1/2" I think but it doesn't seem right. It's not too terribly expensive, but was wondering if someone saw a good thread on the rail, that actually lays out the dimension? I've seen the detailed diagrams on how to bend and cut (the "famous" thread) but I don't think I saw an exact measurement in that thread to me recollection. Do you or Aaron know what it should be? Other than that looking good man, can't wait to see more pics. Quote
Dark PWF[Staff] Posted May 3, 2014 Author Report Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Derek I haven't built my scope rail yet - but a cardboard template is planned for production this weekend while the crinkle paint dries (that's about to happen, actually - the whole thing is masked up right now and waiting for me to decide to go out and paint it). As for the dimensions of the aluminum, after a conversation with Vern about the rail, I have a piece of aluminum that is 1/8" x 3/4" which I bought at Lowe's for about $4, if I remember correctly. The one that you've got is probably too thin. As I mentioned earlier, I'm going to make a cardboard template of the scope rail - actually, I need to do that before I paint the crinkle finish, I'm glad you asked about this now - and use that to mark off my aluminum before taking a combination of the Dremel and a hack saw to it. Naturally, I'll take a few pictures along the way. Edited May 3, 2014 by Dark CMF Quote
usaeatt2 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Tim is right with the 1/8" X 3/4" aluminum bar. Cardboard templates are ALWAYS a good idea. Scope Rail: And the counter bracket, if you need it: Sorry to hijack your thread, Tim... Edited May 4, 2014 by usaeatt2 Quote
Dark PWF[Staff] Posted May 3, 2014 Author Report Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) LoL... All good, Aaron. I'd have had to go and search out the counter bracket template if you hadn't shared it here. Now, I'm good to go, after I get done watching paint dry. :/ Thank you, very much! Edited May 3, 2014 by Dark CMF Quote
gazmosis[501st] Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 I am confused on that bend at the end that goes between the rear sight????? Why is it there? It seems that bend would make the rail sit up too high. Also, I would just eyeball the hole placements for the scope. Just align the rear foot with the hinge of the folding stock. Quote
usaeatt2 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Good eye, Steve. I didn't even notice the bend at the rear until you mentioned it. And a nice reference for scope positioning. Drawing corrected, sir! Edited May 4, 2014 by usaeatt2 Quote
Dark PWF[Staff] Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Posted May 4, 2014 Good eye, Steve. I didn't even notice the bend at the rear until you mentioned it. And a nice reference for scope positioning. Drawing corrected, sir! I read Steve's comment and went back to the drawing trying to find the bend. I thought I was losing it for a moment there, but eventually I read "Drawing corrected" and went... Oooooohhh, nevermind. LoL I have my scope rail cut to length, and I'll be dremelling it tonight, I believe - we'll see what Mrs. Dark has to say about that! Crinkle paint is drying (2 hours into it now) on the blaster. I was very excited to get it dried, and rip off the masking tape, but I've got to figure out the airbrush bit so I can put the proper color on while those other parts (T-Tracks, Pistol Grip) are still masked. LoL I'd hate to have to mask those T-Tracks again. That was such a pain in the... Yeah. Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 I am confused on that bend at the end that goes between the rear sight????? Why is it there? It seems that bend would make the rail sit up too high. Also, I would just eyeball the hole placements for the scope. Just align the rear foot with the hinge of the folding stock. Looks like Billhag's original How To http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/4697-howto-make-a-metal-scope-rail-counter-bracket/ has the end of the rail bending down over the back of the rear sight. Not owning a Doopy kit, I'm not sure which method will provide the better finish. Does having the curve hide some 'mess' perhaps? Quote
Dark PWF[Staff] Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Ahhhhh... Thanks, Ian. You'd have to drill/cut out the rear sight aperture for the iron sight to do that. Definitely not something I'd do, personally. Edited May 4, 2014 by Dark CMF Quote
I'm Batman[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Agree Tim. Looking back at your pics on page 1, I see the rear sight now. Seems to be an odd way to do it. Quote
thederek Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Tim is right with the 1/8" X 3/4" aluminum bar. Cardboard templates are ALWAYS a good idea. Scope Rail: And the counter bracket, if you need it: Sorry to hijack your thread, Tim... Yes, thank you! It was the 1/8" is what I was looking for, that measurement. And the 3/4" wide. I had the 1/16 x 1/2" and 1/8 x 1/2". The 1/16 is way too thin, so I knew that was wrong. The 1/8 x 1/2 felt the right thickness, but didn't seem wide enough, so there ya go! Quote
thederek Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Ahhhhh... Thanks, Ian. You'd have to drill/cut out the rear sight aperture for the iron sight to do that. Definitely not something I'd do, personally. Agree Tim. Looking back at your pics on page 1, I see the rear sight now. Seems to be an odd way to do it. I agree with you guys. Why this was done adds even more confusion, but like Tim said, I would stay aware from messing up the back site. Maybe he made the bar too long and didn't want to cut and rebend the end? Especially in this pic, where you can see the "crescent" slot where the tapered end should go. (Bottom of rear sight, crescent moon) Quote
thederek Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Finally, I would like to add, here is my idea/plan for the scope rail. The end will be "standard" per the plans Aaron posted. However I think I might slightly bend the front portion that goes into the barrell hole in a slight "S" shape to hold it better. This is all in theory, once I actually try and bend, etc and measure, this might change. I just think with an extra bend at the front no one would notice, it might stay in better. Here's the high-tech scehmatic, measured with calipers and state of the art computers: Quote
usaeatt2 Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Maybe Billhag just opted for an alternate way of mounting the rail to make things look "clean"? With the scope mounted, there's no purpose for the iron sights. I have a scope AND iron sights on my AR-15, but the iron sights are mounted at 45 degrees from vertical because the scope is in the way - this way I have the iron sights as backup in case the scope fails. Can't really do that with a Sterling. Quote
TrainWreck[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Since the back half of the rear sight has that "screw hole" maybe he was trying to get the rail far enough back to use that instead of drilling a new hole at the front if the site. That's the only reason I can come up with for that. Quote
The5thHorseman[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Finally, I would like to add, here is my idea/plan for the scope rail. The end will be "standard" per the plans Aaron posted. However I think I might slightly bend the front portion that goes into the barrell hole in a slight "S" shape to hold it better. This is all in theory, once I actually try and bend, etc and measure, this might change. I just think with an extra bend at the front no one would notice, it might stay in better. Of course you should bend it. This is a very common thing people do: Quote
The5thHorseman[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Since the back half of the rear sight has that "screw hole" maybe he was trying to get the rail far enough back to use that instead of drilling a new hole at the front if the site. That's the only reason I can come up with for that. Maybe Billhag just opted for an alternate way of mounting the rail to make things look "clean"? With the scope mounted, there's no purpose for the iron sights. I have a scope AND iron sights on my AR-15, but the iron sights are mounted at 45 degrees from vertical because the scope is in the way - this way I have the iron sights as backup in case the scope fails. Can't really do that with a Sterling. Ahhhhh... Thanks, Ian. You'd have to drill/cut out the rear sight aperture for the iron sight to do that. Definitely not something I'd do, personally. Please remember that this thread is from 2008! The hobby and accuracy knowledge was definetely not the same at the time. Those guys were pioneers! Original thread: http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/4697-howto-make-a-metal-scope-rail-counter-bracket/ Edited May 4, 2014 by The5thHorseman Quote
TrainWreck[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Oh I see. He still has it screwed in the front and it just wraps over the center. Hmmmmm... Odd. I wanted to see if I could find a good screen shot an E-11 from ANH that would have that detail visible. The best I found was this: It does look like the rail is sitting pretty high up on the rear sight and... Wait a minute! No power cylinders? No counter? No M38? Looks like my build is getting more and more accurate all the time... Sorry. I couldn't help my self. Yeah it does look like that rail is mounted a bit higher than I would expect. Quote
thederek Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Oh I see. He still has it screwed in the front and it just wraps over the center. Hmmmmm... Odd. I wanted to see if I could find a good screen shot an E-11 from ANH that would have that detail visible. The best I found was this: It does look like the rail is sitting pretty high up on the rear sight and... Wait a minute! No power cylinders? No counter? No M38? Looks like my build is getting more and more accurate all the time... Sorry. I couldn't help my self. Yeah it does look like that rail is mounted a bit higher than I would expect. Lol, this might help? Interesting thread I started http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/27169-anh-e11-m38-vs-m19-preference/ Quote
The5thHorseman[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 No counter? You can see the glue residue from the hengstler on both the scope and the gun barrel. It's supposed to be there, it just fell before the picture was taken. BTW, no D-ring too Quote
TrainWreck[501st] Posted May 4, 2014 Report Posted May 4, 2014 Yeah I wasn't sure if the D-ring was sitting flush or not so didn't mention it. Apparently keeping those counters on was quite the fiasco. Quote
Dark PWF[Staff] Posted May 5, 2014 Author Report Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Please remember that this thread is from 2008! The hobby and accuracy knowledge was definetely not the same at the time. Those guys were pioneers! Original thread: http://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/4697-howto-make-a-metal-scope-rail-counter-bracket/ Very, very true. Just like some armors are no longer allowed for use, at one point in time, they were the cream of the crop. Certainly, as time goes on, better ways of doing things will come along! Thanks for the reminder, Germain! Anyway... I just wanted to let you all know that there will be about 35 more photos being loaded up in the next day or two. Mostly paint - the textured varieties - and the beginning of the fabrication of the scope rail. I know that Aaron hates the cliffhanger posts, so this one is all for you, buddy! LoL Edited May 5, 2014 by Dark CMF Quote
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